Kanj Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Our midfield needs a Diame / Sissoko type of player. I really love Cheik the player, but - its painfully clear we keep shipping goals on top of a mistake he has made or been involved in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Or a midfielder that couldn't get into the first team in the Dutch league, had one very good season with us and has since hovered between being average and a liability? Not rocket science, like. I can find plenty of posts where I've said that Tiote isn't the right player for this team before this season, for the record. Same with Jonas. p*ss off man. All the players you reckon aren't good enough are being priced at least twice their worth since they've been signed. Let's see some club activate the release clause to sign Pardew as a manager if he's as good as you seem to think he is. Aye, right. We've clearly had loads of offers for Tiote and Jonas. We buy bargains and rubbish that nobody else wants, with a handful of exceptions. Pardew is the managerial equivalent, for the record. Since this is the Tiote thread, then I'm pretty sure that Alex Ferguson said they'd have bought him for £15m but we were asking something daft, probably closer to £20m. I agree Pardew is worthless as a manager but let's not stoop to dishonesty to make a point. There is no comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Our midfield needs a Diame / Sissoko type of player. I really love Cheik the player, but - its painfully clear we keep shipping goals on top of a mistake he has made or been involved in. Agree completely.... for one thing a Anita-Sissoko-Cabaye midfield would have a shit tonne more balance about it and probably function a lot better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Or a midfielder that couldn't get into the first team in the Dutch league, had one very good season with us and has since hovered between being average and a liability? Not rocket science, like. I can find plenty of posts where I've said that Tiote isn't the right player for this team before this season, for the record. Same with Jonas. p*ss off man. All the players you reckon aren't good enough are being priced at least twice their worth since they've been signed. Let's see some club activate the release clause to sign Pardew as a manager if he's as good as you seem to think he is. Aye, right. We've clearly had loads of offers for Tiote and Jonas. We buy bargains and rubbish that nobody else wants, with a handful of exceptions. Pardew is the managerial equivalent, for the record. Since this is the Tiote thread, then I'm pretty sure that Alex Ferguson said they'd have bought him for £15m but we were asking something daft, probably closer to £20m. I agree Pardew is worthless as a manager but let's not stoop to dishonesty to make a point. There is no comparison. Ferguson actually said that? He really is one step away from a care home if that's true. He's not a Man U player on his best day and I've been saying it for far longer than this season. The lad can barely pass a ball, man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthiGeordie Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I am glad he is away for a while now.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Or a midfielder that couldn't get into the first team in the Dutch league, had one very good season with us and has since hovered between being average and a liability? Not rocket science, like. I can find plenty of posts where I've said that Tiote isn't the right player for this team before this season, for the record. Same with Jonas. p*ss off man. All the players you reckon aren't good enough are being priced at least twice their worth since they've been signed. Let's see some club activate the release clause to sign Pardew as a manager if he's as good as you seem to think he is. Aye, right. We've clearly had loads of offers for Tiote and Jonas. We buy bargains and rubbish that nobody else wants, with a handful of exceptions. Pardew is the managerial equivalent, for the record. Since this is the Tiote thread, then I'm pretty sure that Alex Ferguson said they'd have bought him for £15m but we were asking something daft, probably closer to £20m. I agree Pardew is worthless as a manager but let's not stoop to dishonesty to make a point. There is no comparison. Ferguson actually said that? He really is one step away from a care home if that's true. He's not a Man U player on his best day and I've been saying it for far longer than this season. The lad can barely pass a ball, man. Yes, Ferguson did actually say that. His team are sitting on top of the league btw, unlike your hero Pardew. When Man U or any club anywhere near a top 10 place appoint that twat as a manager after this year then feel free to come back to me and tell me I was wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 He's not a Man U player on his best day and I've been saying it for far longer than this season. on his best day(s) he was arguably the best DM in the country Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 He will come good again. We will probably have to wait till end of feb when hba, cabaye, Debuchy & Taylor are back in the squad to take some pressure off him. End of the day he's the last big name left in midfield, all eyes on him. I'd hoped he'd handle it better, he hasn't and showed he isn't quite the player he thought he was. Could be a good thing, brought back down to earth, shame it's been at such a dire time mind. Acn is a blessing, never thought I'd say that this time last year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Or a midfielder that couldn't get into the first team in the Dutch league, had one very good season with us and has since hovered between being average and a liability? Not rocket science, like. I can find plenty of posts where I've said that Tiote isn't the right player for this team before this season, for the record. Same with Jonas. p*ss off man. All the players you reckon aren't good enough are being priced at least twice their worth since they've been signed. Let's see some club activate the release clause to sign Pardew as a manager if he's as good as you seem to think he is. Aye, right. We've clearly had loads of offers for Tiote and Jonas. We buy bargains and rubbish that nobody else wants, with a handful of exceptions. Pardew is the managerial equivalent, for the record. Since this is the Tiote thread, then I'm pretty sure that Alex Ferguson said they'd have bought him for £15m but we were asking something daft, probably closer to £20m. I agree Pardew is worthless as a manager but let's not stoop to dishonesty to make a point. There is no comparison. Ferguson actually said that? He really is one step away from a care home if that's true. He's not a Man U player on his best day and I've been saying it for far longer than this season. The lad can barely pass a ball, man. Yes, Ferguson did actually say that. His team are sitting on top of the league btw, unlike your hero Pardew. When Man U or any club anywhere near a top 10 place appoint that t*** as a manager after this year then feel free to come back to me and tell me I was wrong. Sounds like you've had too much to drink, man. Pardew's my hero because I don't want him sacked and replaced with Christ knows who? Oh, and find me a quote or else go to bed and stop with your rubbish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil K Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Chiek's now a liability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 He's not a Man U player on his best day and I've been saying it for far longer than this season. on his best day(s) he was arguably the best DM in the country I think we all went a bit mad with Tiote because of the gulf in class between him and the last few defensive midfielders at the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 He's not a Man U player on his best day and I've been saying it for far longer than this season. on his best day(s) he was arguably the best DM in the country I think we all went a bit mad with Tiote because of the gulf in class between him and the last few defensive midfielders at the club. perhaps, doesn't change the fact that he was very good and very effective at what he did when he first came in...for whatever reason he's totally lost the plot, probably started to believe his own hype and thinking he's fucking zidane he just needs to get back to working on his positioning, breaking the play up and giving the ball off to better players and he'll be alright probably needs to some dedicated coaching, may have to find it elsewhere Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I think it's fair to say he hit a bit of a purple patch when he first arrived here. He's probably not ever going to be that player for us again... but i don't believe for a second that if used correctly he can't be a very effective Premiership footballer. A large issue with him is that he gets caught in possession far too much. His first year or so he was tremendous at winning the ball in the middle of the park then twisting and turning his way out of trouble and releasing it to a teammate. Problem is that now teams have gotten wise to him, they know he'll try and hold onto the ball and try and dribble his way out of tight spots. So they press him and far too often he gets caught in possession which is extremely dangerous for a player playing his position. There were glimpses of this even in his early days here, remember that goal Blackburn scored against us at St. James where he dribbled the ball basically into our own box and got dispossessed and they scored? As a pure ball winning midfielder he's still got a lot to offer IMO. We look noticeably softer in the middle when he's absent, he presses players brilliantly and breaks up a lot of passes. But the fact that he's become such a liability in possession is negating this. Teams have changed the way they play against him and he needs to adapt to it. He's a poster boy for the fact that we clearly don't put a lot of time and effort into planning what we'll do as a team when we have the ball. If we did he'd be instructed to release the ball as quickly as possible when he wins possession, play a very simple game and hold his position in the midfield and leave the attacking to the players who actually have some quality on the ball. Then when the other team has the ball that's where he comes into his own. Is he blameless in it all? No, but like a lot of our players right now he'd look a whole lot better if our manager had a clue how to get the best out of him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 yep, what shak said Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I think that's another reason I've never warmed to him as much as most on here: IMO a 'pure ball winner' only has a permanent place in a team constantly up against it. I want us to be more than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 i see it the other to that personally ronaldo, he's not suited to this hopeless mishmash of non-tactics we currently employ...if we utilised our attacking options correctly someone like tiote would be vital imo look at how cabaye and anita have laboured when told to concentrate heavily on the defensive sides of their game, ideally we'd have a 3 with 2 of them more attacking oriented and tiote tasked with doing nothing but breaking up the play when we lose it just me mind, you'd always need other to support him anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 i see it the other to that personally ronaldo, he's not suited to this hopeless mishmash of non-tactics we currently employ...if we utilised our attacking options correctly someone like tiote would be vital imo look at how cabaye and anita have laboured when told to concentrate heavily on the defensive sides of their game, ideally we'd have a 3 with 2 of them more attacking oriented and tiote tasked with doing nothing but breaking up the play when we lose it just me mind, you'd always need other to support him anyway Tiote needs strong manager who tells him to release the ball quickly and cut out the extraneous stuff which gets him into trouble. On top of that he needs to be in a side that is comfortable passing it around and always ready to give Tiote a range of options for the easy pass. He's always played a bit on the edge but where he is going wrong is in those two aspects, one of them is his fault trying to be the complete midfielder (though it seems Pardew is behind this too), the blame for the other lies with Pardew and his disjointed team of strangers. Teams got pretty wise to him very quickly in his first season too - you could see that even in the 5-1 as Sunderland zoned straight in on him from the off - here's what i wrote 20 odd mins into that game bruce clearly told sunderland to go straight into tiote rather than anticipate the pass, knowing how he likes to spin on the ball Difference then was he was still keeping it simple and the rest of the side had a better zonal understanding meaning more clear passing options for him to release it early. You look at that Arsenal away game from the same time and he had a 96% pass completion rate, and was maintaining those stats for most the games he played back then. fwiw his completion rate this season is 82% - a significant drop. I think his dribbling and passing range is actually better now than it was when he first joined, while i dont think his defensive game has changed much at all. he always picked up a load of yellows - he got 8 in his first 14 games here, for example. But if he and the team can get back to what they are good at i've no doubts we'll see the best of him again. It's just another example of a good player looking poor under this manager this season - it's not a coincidence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I think that's another reason I've never warmed to him as much as most on here: IMO a 'pure ball winner' only has a permanent place in a team constantly up against it. I want us to be more than that. Yeah that's why Makelele made his name playing for Real and Chelsea. Before you go looney saying that I'm comparing Tiote with Makelele, I'm not. Just that there is a role for a ball winning midfielder who then makes the simple pass even in the most attacking teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stottie Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Good shout on the passing accuracy stats, there is definitely something there. The "Tiote getting caught in possession" one is him simply being found out. Of course, teammates more willing to give him an option after he's won the ball, the turnover phase or whatever its called, would help. And no, he shouldn't be shooting from range either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 There's no excuse for his temperament though. He lost the plot again yesterday, diving into tackle, pushing in the box. He could have been sent off/given away a pen. Being a defensive midfielder is about covering spaces and staying on your feet, not lunging into a challenge after losing the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyP Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Up until about the Stoke away game, he was looking super poor this year, and someone summed up why (can't remember who) by saying he looked like he was trying to be a Yaya Toure type all round midfielder, rather than a ball winner. Last night was not an amazing performance, but when he own the ball, he generally played it back to Colo and has been much better at doing that since the Stoke game (cant remember if he even played in it, but that was the first possitive performance in ages by the side!) He has realised that he is not Lionel Messi and can't hang onto the ball forever, he has stepped up alot recently but still looks short of Tiote 2010/2011. Soon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 At the moment, he wouldn't start for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 He was better last night I thought, less sloppy than he has been. Still a very good player IMO, but he needs firm management and direction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 He was better last night I thought, less sloppy than he has been. Still a very good player IMO, but he needs firm management and direction. At times he was, but I can still remember 3 or 4 times where he gave the ball or daft fouls away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Hope the ACoN gets him back up to speed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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