Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 He's just an outlet for when we recover the ball, Tiote->Gutierrez, then Barton/Caroll/Nolan all get forward as he won't lose the ball, he passes it back to one of those 3 and we create chances, he fulfills a role for the team at the moment and unless replaced by someone who can retain the ball as well as he can, we'd miss him immensely (Ben Arfa is perfect when he returns). Myths. He has a decent pass ratio, because he passes 3 yards to Enrique, usually backwards or side passes, fair enough. Passes forwards or inside usually go stray. His retention of the ball is a myth too, as he often runs into a defender or 5 and loses it, likewise his stray inside passes contribute to that. Does he try to win the ball back when he loses it? No, he fiddles with his hair, or curses the sky. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 I thought yesterday we seen the best and the worst,, effort was amazing tracking back helping out edge of the box when we were under pressure. Played some nice passes, put Carroll through early on with a great pass but Carroll miss controlled. But he tries to do way to much, take everyone on, he does get surrounded fast mind, shows teams are scared of him. Wish at time he would lay it off early, we waste so much time and possession when him and Jose starting passing it back and forth. Good point - it was noticeable that Liverpool doubled up on him as soon as he got the ball for most of yesterday and pressurised him from his first touch. Not sure what many players could do in that situation. Thought he had a good scond half actually - ran with the ball well, drove Johnson back (who had been looking threatening) and generally caused Liverpool problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Cliché time but... In a better team he'd be a better player, he's not the type of player to make an average side better, sadly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 He's just an outlet for when we recover the ball, Tiote->Gutierrez, then Barton/Caroll/Nolan all get forward as he won't lose the ball, he passes it back to one of those 3 and we create chances, he fulfills a role for the team at the moment and unless replaced by someone who can retain the ball as well as he can, we'd miss him immensely (Ben Arfa is perfect when he returns). Almost the entirety of your post is bollocks. Myths. He has a decent pass ratio, because he passes 3 yards to Enrique, usually backwards or side passes, fair enough. Passes forwards or inside usually go stray. His retention of the ball is a myth too, as he often runs into a defender or 5 and loses it, likewise his stray inside passes contribute to that. Does he try to win the ball back when he loses it? No, he fiddles with his hair, or curses the sky. He's just an outlet for when we recover the ball, Tiote->Gutierrez, then Barton/Caroll/Nolan all get forward as he won't lose the ball, he passes it back to one of those 3 and we create chances, he fulfills a role for the team at the moment and unless replaced by someone who can retain the ball as well as he can, we'd miss him immensely (Ben Arfa is perfect when he returns). Myths. He has a decent pass ratio, because he passes 3 yards to Enrique, usually backwards or side passes, fair enough. Passes forwards or inside usually go stray. His retention of the ball is a myth too, as he often runs into a defender or 5 and loses it, likewise his stray inside passes contribute to that. Does he try to win the ball back when he loses it? No, he fiddles with his hair, or curses the sky. That's an impressive level of crap in one post... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 So good you quoted it twice. OK, Football Expert, show me why its crap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Agree with OCK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Saying he is unable to retain the ball is harsh imo. Fair enough on his final ball, but he can certainly retain the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Cliché time but... In a better team he'd be a better player, he's not the type of player to make an average side better, sadly. He would do well in a team that had a lot of talented attacking players to take up the slack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Cliché time but... In a better team he'd be a better player, he's not the type of player to make an average side better, sadly. He would do well in a team that had a lot of talented attacking players to take up the slack. He'd do well if he could do the basics of a winger. i.e. to pass the ball and cross. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Saying he is unable to retain the ball is harsh imo. Fair enough on his final ball, but he can certainly retain the ball. What do you class as ball retention? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BONTEMPI Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Saying he is unable to retain the ball is harsh imo. Fair enough on his final ball, but he can certainly retain the ball. What do you class as ball retention? Wearing speedo's Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 He probably does, so aye, I'm talking 'bollocks'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Saying he is unable to retain the ball is harsh imo. Fair enough on his final ball, but he can certainly retain the ball. What do you class as ball retention? He picks the ball up outside his own box and carries it, relives pressure. Now of course lately he hasnt been doing this as well, but when he's full of confidence he does it as well as anyone in the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Saying he is unable to retain the ball is harsh imo. Fair enough on his final ball, but he can certainly retain the ball. What do you class as ball retention? He picks the ball up outside his own box and carries it, relives pressure. Now of course lately he hasnt been doing this as well, but when he's full of confidence he does it as well as anyone in the team. That's not really ball retention though, as while he might on occasion carry the ball forward 10-20 yards, he usually ends up walking into trouble. That's what bugs me about his game, he never tries to run past players. He stands, waits for the ball to played into feet, puts the ball on right foot, waits until the defender (or two) come in to close him down, and then tries to take the ball forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Saying he is unable to retain the ball is harsh imo. Fair enough on his final ball, but he can certainly retain the ball. What do you class as ball retention? He picks the ball up outside his own box and carries it, relives pressure. Now of course lately he hasnt been doing this as well, but when he's full of confidence he does it as well as anyone in the team. That's not really ball retention though, as while he might on occasion carry the ball forward 10-20 yards, he usually ends up walking into trouble. That's what bugs me about his game, he never tries to run past players. He stands, waits for the ball to played into feet, puts the ball on right foot, waits until the defender (or two) come in to close him down, and then tries to take the ball forward. It's holding on to the ball so it is ball retention. Whether you're keeping the ball through passing it or one playing dribbling it doesn't matter its still ball retention. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 It also leads to giving the ball away most of the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Saying he is unable to retain the ball is harsh imo. Fair enough on his final ball, but he can certainly retain the ball. What do you class as ball retention? He picks the ball up outside his own box and carries it, relives pressure. Now of course lately he hasnt been doing this as well, but when he's full of confidence he does it as well as anyone in the team. That's not really ball retention though, as while he might on occasion carry the ball forward 10-20 yards, he usually ends up walking into trouble. That's what bugs me about his game, he never tries to run past players. He stands, waits for the ball to played into feet, puts the ball on right foot, waits until the defender (or two) come in to close him down, and then tries to take the ball forward. It is ball retention. Im not sure what else carrying the ball into the oppositions half is classed as then? Look, I think its clear he isnt on top of his game, but there is no one better to put in his position. He needs a kick up the arse and some confidence. Until HBA returns he is going to be in the team as far as I can see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Saying he is unable to retain the ball is harsh imo. Fair enough on his final ball, but he can certainly retain the ball. What do you class as ball retention? He picks the ball up outside his own box and carries it, relives pressure. Now of course lately he hasnt been doing this as well, but when he's full of confidence he does it as well as anyone in the team. That's not really ball retention though, as while he might on occasion carry the ball forward 10-20 yards, he usually ends up walking into trouble. That's what bugs me about his game, he never tries to run past players. He stands, waits for the ball to played into feet, puts the ball on right foot, waits until the defender (or two) come in to close him down, and then tries to take the ball forward. It is ball retention. Im not sure what else carrying the ball into the oppositions half is classed as then? I could dribble 90 yards up the field, but if I pass the ball to opposition defence I haven't retained the ball. Iniesta and Xavi are ball retainers, as nearly everything they do goes to a team mate. I personally don't feel that Jonas has that quality, his decision making is a major flaw which effects everything he does, include retention of the ball. He picks the wrong pass, picks the wrong time to run and where to run. Like I said, his passing stats are flattering because he'll pass 3-5 yards to Enrique 20 times a game, but those passes are usually concentrated around the halfway line. His forward passing his terrible. If you took passes to Jose away his figures aren't that stellar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Saying he is unable to retain the ball is harsh imo. Fair enough on his final ball, but he can certainly retain the ball. What do you class as ball retention? He picks the ball up outside his own box and carries it, relives pressure. Now of course lately he hasnt been doing this as well, but when he's full of confidence he does it as well as anyone in the team. That's not really ball retention though, as while he might on occasion carry the ball forward 10-20 yards, he usually ends up walking into trouble. That's what bugs me about his game, he never tries to run past players. He stands, waits for the ball to played into feet, puts the ball on right foot, waits until the defender (or two) come in to close him down, and then tries to take the ball forward. It is ball retention. Im not sure what else carrying the ball into the oppositions half is classed as then? I could dribble 90 yards up the field, but if I pass the ball to opposition defence I haven't retained the ball. Iniesta and Xavi are ball retainers, as nearly everything they do goes to a team mate. I personally don't feel that Jonas has that quality, his decision making is a major flaw which effects everything he does, include retention of the ball. He picks the wrong pass, picks the wrong time to run and where to run. Like I said, his passing stats are flattering because he'll pass 3-5 yards to Enrique 20 times a game, but those passes are usually concentrated around the halfway line. His forward passing his terrible. If you took passes to Jose away his figures aren't that stellar. You critisize him for not being able to hold on to possesaion as well as Xavi and Iniesta and then moan when he gives 5 yard passes which keep possession? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Saying he is unable to retain the ball is harsh imo. Fair enough on his final ball, but he can certainly retain the ball. What do you class as ball retention? He picks the ball up outside his own box and carries it, relives pressure. Now of course lately he hasnt been doing this as well, but when he's full of confidence he does it as well as anyone in the team. That's not really ball retention though, as while he might on occasion carry the ball forward 10-20 yards, he usually ends up walking into trouble. That's what bugs me about his game, he never tries to run past players. He stands, waits for the ball to played into feet, puts the ball on right foot, waits until the defender (or two) come in to close him down, and then tries to take the ball forward. It is ball retention. Im not sure what else carrying the ball into the oppositions half is classed as then? I could dribble 90 yards up the field, but if I pass the ball to opposition defence I haven't retained the ball. Iniesta and Xavi are ball retainers, as nearly everything they do goes to a team mate. I personally don't feel that Jonas has that quality, his decision making is a major flaw which effects everything he does, include retention of the ball. He picks the wrong pass, picks the wrong time to run and where to run. Like I said, his passing stats are flattering because he'll pass 3-5 yards to Enrique 20 times a game, but those passes are usually concentrated around the halfway line. His forward passing his terrible. If you took passes to Jose away his figures aren't that stellar. There arent many Xavi's or Iniestsa about though to be fair. He's not a world beater, but he will do a job for us for where we are at the moment. Im not sure what you suggest we would do otherwise? Who would you drop him for? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 What? No, I used them as an example of what I consider ball retention, and said that people talk about his passing, which is never anything constructive, but little passes to Jose. Sometimes needless passes to Jose. I'm not trying to slaughter the guy, but I don't understand the never ending support for 'key parts' of his game that make no sense. Namely ball retention and passing. EDIT: You're reading far too much into Xavi and Iniesta remark. I'm simply referring to them as people who never waste the ball and have good ball retention. I'm not comparing Jonas to them. I'm not saying he should be dropped completely either, just saying that people keep going on about parts of his game as a positive, when in truth, its pretty dire. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 What? No, I used them as an example of what I consider ball retention, and said that people talk about his passing, which is never anything constructive, but little passes to Jose. Sometimes needless passes to Jose. I'm not trying to slaughter the guy, but I don't understand the never ending support for 'key parts' of his game that make no sense. Namely ball retention and passing. ITS A BLOODY CHARACTER ASSASSINATION MAN!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 I can only repeat what I've said in previous posts; Jonas should be sold. I tremble every time he has the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Worst player on the pitch yesterday, he was atrocious. Made Glen Johnson look like a competent defender. I still quite like him, but he needs a kick up his arse. Routledge should start on the left next week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Imo he's just low on confidence at the moment, normally i think he's a good player, The only thing he really lacks is end product. Simple as that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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