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He got the first half and starting 11 spot on, Stroller was shit but he didn't have many options, if any.  First half we played a mix of 4-5-1 and 4-4-3 which meant our midfield was solid and the defence coped with everything they could throw at us.

 

They made changes and instead of us keeping the shape that had served us so well, we changed to 4-4-2 and our midfield which had been so strong and gave us the foundation to take 3 points was undone.  Our 2 central midfielders in the 2nd half did nothing because they were left exposed badly which then left the centre of our defence exposed. 

 

Pardew has cost us the game today, from a winning position we gave away 5 goals and that is pathetic.

 

I don't think his substitutions had any effect, either or positive, the game changed because our formation changed.

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Guest neesy111

He got the first half and starting 11 spot on, Stroller was shit but he didn't have many options, if any.  First half we played a mix of 4-5-1 and 4-4-3 which meant our midfield was solid and the defence coped with everything they could throw at us.

 

They made changes and instead of us keeping the shape that had served us so well, we changed to 4-4-2 and our midfield which had been so strong and gave us the foundation to take 3 points was undone.  Our 2 central midfielders in the 2nd half did nothing because they were left exposed badly which then left the centre of our defence exposed. 

 

Pardew has cost us the game today, from a winning position we gave away 5 goals and that is pathetic.

 

I don't think his substitutions had any effect, either or positive, the game changed because our formation changed.

 

Jol ripped Pardew apart tactically.  Alarmingly was the fact it took 20 mins for Pardew to realise.

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Guest Craig-NUFC

Think a lot of this could have been solved by dropping the defence and central midfielders a little deeper.

Would have liked to have seen us keep the 4-3-3, put Best up top and replace Ameobi with Ferguson as he could then help out Santon since he looked to be struggling after giving away the penalty.

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He got the first half and starting 11 spot on, Stroller was shit but he didn't have many options, if any.  First half we played a mix of 4-5-1 and 4-4-3 which meant our midfield was solid and the defence coped with everything they could throw at us.

 

They made changes and instead of us keeping the shape that had served us so well, we changed to 4-4-2 and our midfield which had been so strong and gave us the foundation to take 3 points was undone.  Our 2 central midfielders in the 2nd half did nothing because they were left exposed badly which then left the centre of our defence exposed. 

 

Pardew has cost us the game today, from a winning position we gave away 5 goals and that is pathetic.

 

I don't think his substitutions had any effect, either or positive, the game changed because our formation changed.

 

That's how I saw it as well. We've started well in other games but when the opposition manager switches formation it seems to totally flummox Pardew. Every now and then you get a game where we end up all over the place conceding goals with a suicidal high line defence.

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That's how I saw it as well. We've started well in other games but when the opposition manager switches formation it seems to totally flummox Pardew. Every now and then you get a game where we end up all over the place conceding goals with a suicidal high line defence.

 

this flummoxing is bizarre, it's hardly fucking rocket science is it

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Think a lot of this could have been solved by dropping the defence and central midfielders a little deeper.

Would have liked to have seen us keep the 4-3-3, put Best up top and replace Ameobi with Ferguson as he could then help out Santon since he looked to be struggling after giving away the penalty.

 

The defence moved up because we were weaker in midfield and they tried to fill the gap.

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Think a lot of this could have been solved by dropping the defence and central midfielders a little deeper.

Would have liked to have seen us keep the 4-3-3, put Best up top and replace Ameobi with Ferguson as he could then help out Santon since he looked to be struggling after giving away the penalty.

 

The defence moved up because we were weaker in midfield and they tried to fill the gap.

my reading was the defence moved up a tad because johnson came on and dropped a bit deeper, no doubt many on here want us to stand 30yds out and wait for them to come at us.
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Guest neesy111

Think a lot of this could have been solved by dropping the defence and central midfielders a little deeper.

Would have liked to have seen us keep the 4-3-3, put Best up top and replace Ameobi with Ferguson as he could then help out Santon since he looked to be struggling after giving away the penalty.

 

The defence moved up because we were weaker in midfield and they tried to fill the gap.

my reading was the defence moved up a tad because johnson came on and dropped a bit deeper, no doubt many on here want us to stand 30yds out and wait for them to come at us.

 

Moving up when a pacey player comes on is suicidal.  We were trying to catch them offside 5 yards in our own half.

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my reading was the defence moved up a tad because johnson came on and dropped a bit deeper, no doubt many on here want us to stand 30yds out and wait for them to come at us.

 

In the first half we had Best playing wide left and Cabaye, Guthrie and Jonas playing central with Ben Arfa playing on the right.  Second half we had Cabaye and Guthrie in the middle with Jonas playing on the left with Ben Arfa playing more advanced and I think that's why the whole defence moved up.

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Think a lot of this could have been solved by dropping the defence and central midfielders a little deeper.

Would have liked to have seen us keep the 4-3-3, put Best up top and replace Ameobi with Ferguson as he could then help out Santon since he looked to be struggling after giving away the penalty.

 

The defence moved up because we were weaker in midfield and they tried to fill the gap.

my reading was the defence moved up a tad because johnson came on and dropped a bit deeper, no doubt many on here want us to stand 30yds out and wait for them to come at us.

 

Moving up when a pacey player comes on is suicidal.  We were trying to catch them offside 5 yards in our own half.

standing off them and giving them the ball inspace is suicidal also, what do you suggest ? i don't think the plan was to push up but do as most temas do and follow the opposition, if the push up you sit deeper, if they drop in you push up.
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He got the first half and starting 11 spot on, Stroller was shit but he didn't have many options, if any.  First half we played a mix of 4-5-1 and 4-4-3 which meant our midfield was solid and the defence coped with everything they could throw at us.

 

They made changes and instead of us keeping the shape that had served us so well, we changed to 4-4-2 and our midfield which had been so strong and gave us the foundation to take 3 points was undone.  Our 2 central midfielders in the 2nd half did nothing because they were left exposed badly which then left the centre of our defence exposed. 

 

Pardew has cost us the game today, from a winning position we gave away 5 goals and that is pathetic.

 

I don't think his substitutions had any effect, either or positive, the game changed because our formation changed.

 

Pretty much how I see it Mick, bar the subs. I felt Perch was the right option but he was trying to fix the wrong problem imo.

 

As you said, it was the shape that was wrong not the personnel. (Apart from Shola that is.)

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He got the first half and starting 11 spot on, Stroller was s*** but he didn't have many options, if any.  First half we played a mix of 4-5-1 and 4-4-3 which meant our midfield was solid and the defence coped with everything they could throw at us.

 

They made changes and instead of us keeping the shape that had served us so well, we changed to 4-4-2 and our midfield which had been so strong and gave us the foundation to take 3 points was undone.  Our 2 central midfielders in the 2nd half did nothing because they were left exposed badly which then left the centre of our defence exposed. 

 

Pardew has cost us the game today, from a winning position we gave away 5 goals and that is pathetic.

 

I don't think his substitutions had any effect, either or positive, the game changed because our formation changed.

 

weren't we already 3-1 down and getting spanked before we changed to 4-4-2?

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Yeah, Jonas playing centrally prevented us pushing up to high defensively, going left gave us width at expense for height. That said went wrong earlier, we just lost composure, and kept giving away the ball second half. Pardew's team talk at half time must have been goddawful.

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He got the first half and starting 11 spot on, Stroller was s*** but he didn't have many options, if any.  First half we played a mix of 4-5-1 and 4-4-3 which meant our midfield was solid and the defence coped with everything they could throw at us.

 

They made changes and instead of us keeping the shape that had served us so well, we changed to 4-4-2 and our midfield which had been so strong and gave us the foundation to take 3 points was undone.  Our 2 central midfielders in the 2nd half did nothing because they were left exposed badly which then left the centre of our defence exposed. 

 

Pardew has cost us the game today, from a winning position we gave away 5 goals and that is pathetic.

 

I don't think his substitutions had any effect, either or positive, the game changed because our formation changed.

 

weren't we already 3-1 down and getting spanked before we changed to 4-4-2?

 

Correct.

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Think a lot of this could have been solved by dropping the defence and central midfielders a little deeper.

Would have liked to have seen us keep the 4-3-3, put Best up top and replace Ameobi with Ferguson as he could then help out Santon since he looked to be struggling after giving away the penalty.

 

The defence moved up because we were weaker in midfield and they tried to fill the gap.

my reading was the defence moved up a tad because johnson came on and dropped a bit deeper, no doubt many on here want us to stand 30yds out and wait for them to come at us.

 

And you want the defence to move up and to be caught with ball over the top over and over again....brilliantly Pardewisque. Basic rule of playing a high line, you need quick defenders who can chase the ball over the top. We should never play a high line coz none of our defenders are fast enough for this, especially Colo and Williamson.

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Think a lot of this could have been solved by dropping the defence and central midfielders a little deeper.

Would have liked to have seen us keep the 4-3-3, put Best up top and replace Ameobi with Ferguson as he could then help out Santon since he looked to be struggling after giving away the penalty.

 

The defence moved up because we were weaker in midfield and they tried to fill the gap.

my reading was the defence moved up a tad because johnson came on and dropped a bit deeper, no doubt many on here want us to stand 30yds out and wait for them to come at us.

 

And you want the defence to move up and to be caught with ball over the top over and over again....brilliantly Pardewisque. Basic rule of playing a high line, you need quick defenders who can chase the ball over the top. We should never play a high line coz none of our defenders are fast enough for this, especially Colo and Williamson.

no, you try to read that and cover all fronts, it's called defending. thats why you don't man mark all over the pitch but take up positions to mark the man and cover other outcomes.
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Think a lot of this could have been solved by dropping the defence and central midfielders a little deeper.

Would have liked to have seen us keep the 4-3-3, put Best up top and replace Ameobi with Ferguson as he could then help out Santon since he looked to be struggling after giving away the penalty.

 

The defence moved up because we were weaker in midfield and they tried to fill the gap.

my reading was the defence moved up a tad because johnson came on and dropped a bit deeper, no doubt many on here want us to stand 30yds out and wait for them to come at us.

 

Moving up when a pacey player comes on is suicidal.  We were trying to catch them offside 5 yards in our own half.

standing off them and giving them the ball inspace is suicidal also, what do you suggest ? i don't think the plan was to push up but do as most temas do and follow the opposition, if the push up you sit deeper, if they drop in you push up.

 

Not as suicidal as moving up and then only to be beaten over the top. The crucial distinction is that if you stay back and give the strikers space, they still need to beat our defenders or have long range pops. Move up and get beaten by the ball over the top and the striker is already through with just the keeper to beat. Can't believe that I'm even arguing this, it's so fucking obvious and you are usually post sensible stuff.

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