Crayola Kid Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 It's much harder for us to progress significantly this year than it was last year or the year before. Finding players that would strengthen a promoted or bottom-half side was easy. But now that we're looking at 5th~7th, players that would improve us simply don't come cheap, which makes deals a lot harder to strike without spending foolish money. The way finances in football work, the amount of money required to make progress starts increasing exponentially beyond a certain point, while the probably that investing that much money will actually deliver returns starts decreasing at a geometric rate as well. It's a very tough spot we're in right now and I understand if the board wants to stick to their guns as much as possible rather than throw away money out of a misguided need to "make progress" every window. I'm not saying we should not sign players, but I don't want us to abandon the principles that have served us well just because we feel obligated to sign somebody. arent we just looking for more of the same though? last year we strengthened midfield by replacing, for example, barton with cabaye. we arent looking to upgrade cabaye now, we're just looking to do the same thing to other parts of the existing team, like simpson or williamson, or replace back up players such as best. it shouldnt necessarily be any harder this summer when you look at it like that, should it? there may be an awareness amongst selling clubs that we have made a few shrewd moves recently, you have to wonder whether lille are holding out for more cash for debuchy because we did so well to exploit cabaye's transfer clause and so we owe them one, in their eyes. did twente's chairman tell us to pay top price this summer because he has seen tiote's value soar, and also saw us as owing him one for a transfer which looks, in retrospect, a steal? i think its possible that this sentiment played a part in both cases (debuchy and dejong/douglas), but that doesnt change the market we are looking to exploit. we'll be looking at undervalued players for positions we need to stengthen, or stepping stone players who we can entice with the prospect of playing them in the premier league for a year or two to enhance their own careers. there should be plenty of them about, we dont need to be buying established stars this summer any more than last Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 It's much harder for us to progress significantly this year than it was last year or the year before. Finding players that would strengthen a promoted or bottom-half side was easy. But now that we're looking at 5th~7th, players that would improve us simply don't come cheap, which makes deals a lot harder to strike without spending foolish money. The way finances in football work, the amount of money required to make progress starts increasing exponentially beyond a certain point, while the probably that investing that much money will actually deliver returns starts decreasing at a geometric rate as well. It's a very tough spot we're in right now and I understand if the board wants to stick to their guns as much as possible rather than throw away money out of a misguided need to "make progress" every window. I'm not saying we should not sign players, but I don't want us to abandon the principles that have served us well just because we feel obligated to sign somebody. arent we just looking for more of the same though? last year we strengthened midfield by replacing, for example, barton with cabaye. we arent looking to upgrade cabaye now, we're just looking to do the same thing to other parts of the existing team, like simpson or williamson, or replace back up players such as best. it shouldnt necessarily be any harder this summer when you look at it like that, should it? there may be an awareness amongst selling clubs that we have made a few shrewd moves recently, you have to wonder whether lille are holding out for more cash for debuchy because we did so well to exploit cabaye's transfer clause and so we owe them one, in their eyes. did twente's chairman tell us to pay top price this summer because he has seen tiote's value soar, and also saw us as owing him one for a transfer which looks, in retrospect, a steal? i think its possible that this sentiment played a part in both cases (debuchy and dejong/douglas), but that doesnt change the market we are looking to exploit. we'll be looking at undervalued players for positions we need to stengthen, or stepping stone players who we can entice with the prospect of playing them in the premier league for a year or two to enhance their own careers. there should be plenty of them about, we dont need to be buying established stars this summer any more than last Good post, both this and Oldtypes. I can not see the big difference now and last year, we still have weak spots in the squad that can be upgraded at a reasonable price. ref Debuchy, Anita. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Main difference is not the quality of player, but the fact we were in a position last year to benefit from some contract clauses (Cabaye, Ba), took a gamble on some unwanted youngsters at bigger clubs (Santon, Obertan) and a player carrying a long term injury available on a free (Marveaux). This year we seem to be targeting first team players of big clubs in "smaller" leagues that are wanted by their clubs and where the selling club will only let go in case an offer to good to refuse comes in (like we do with our first team players). Unfortunately it seems we haven't managed to find many top quality targets for priority positions with suspect clauses or who are washed up at their current club this time around, hence why it's proving more difficult to get real value for money signings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Some good posts all round... But I go back to what I said earlier in the summer... The amount of publicity our scouting system was getting with AP and Carr giving the interviews and every Radio/TV pundit actually knowing our scouts name etc was in my opinion always going to have repercussions when it came to future transfers windows... We should of kept a much lower profile and just got on with business... It's only clever finding these players if they actually end up playing for us... FWIW i think/hope we'll get Debuchy and possibly Anita last few weeks of the window and maybe forward for the bench in January... Douglas may come in January but have feeling we'll look again next summer... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 FWIW i think/hope we'll get Debuchy and possibly Anita last few weeks of the window and maybe forward for the bench in January... Douglas may come in January but have feeling we'll look again next summer... Can i just say i would be fine with this as long as Saylor can stay fit till January and Ivory Coast beat Senegal in the AFCON qualifier. It's far from ideal, but i would be ok with it as long we do get the rest of the targets in January. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Some good posts all round... But I go back to what I said earlier in the summer... The amount of publicity our scouting system was getting with AP and Carr giving the interviews and every Radio/TV pundit actually knowing our scouts name etc was in my opinion always going to have repercussions when it came to future transfers windows... We should of kept a much lower profile and just got on with business... It's only clever finding these players if they actually end up playing for us... FWIW i think/hope we'll get Debuchy and possibly Anita last few weeks of the window and maybe forward for the bench in January... Douglas may come in January but have feeling we'll look again next summer... I don't think we deliberately went for higher profile for our scouts etc. If you have this much success, you will become well known. You're right though, the fact we are now famous for getting a bargain is bound to count against us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 FWIW i think/hope we'll get Debuchy and possibly Anita last few weeks of the window and maybe forward for the bench in January... Douglas may come in January but have feeling we'll look again next summer... Can i just say i would be fine with this as long as Saylor can stay fit till January and Ivory Coast beat Senegal in the AFCON qualifier. It's far from ideal, but i would be ok with it as long we do get the rest of the targets in January. It seems quite clear Debuchy is our main target and to a lesser extent (maybe due to how well Bigi has done) Anita is our next target alongside Douglas... But as for a forward i'm struggling to think who they have in mind with them missing out on LDJ... Only links of any credibility have been Carroll (which to me doesn't seem a good fit) and Loic Remy... Although the window has been frustrating it's made the last few weeks very intriguing and i think will be very telling of MA ambitions with the club... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Some good posts all round... But I go back to what I said earlier in the summer... The amount of publicity our scouting system was getting with AP and Carr giving the interviews and every Radio/TV pundit actually knowing our scouts name etc was in my opinion always going to have repercussions when it came to future transfers windows... We should of kept a much lower profile and just got on with business... It's only clever finding these players if they actually end up playing for us... FWIW i think/hope we'll get Debuchy and possibly Anita last few weeks of the window and maybe forward for the bench in January... Douglas may come in January but have feeling we'll look again next summer... I don't think we deliberately went for higher profile for our scouts etc. If you have this much success, you will become well known. You're right though, the fact we are now famous for getting a bargain is bound to count against us. So why let your chief scout do interviews for the media? Or your team manager to discuss it in length in the media... I don't have any knowledge of this going on at any other club... apart from Daniel Levy likes to drive a hard bargain perhaps... Just all seemed very unnecessary and a little self-congratuatly... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Some good posts all round... But I go back to what I said earlier in the summer... The amount of publicity our scouting system was getting with AP and Carr giving the interviews and every Radio/TV pundit actually knowing our scouts name etc was in my opinion always going to have repercussions when it came to future transfers windows... We should of kept a much lower profile and just got on with business... It's only clever finding these players if they actually end up playing for us... FWIW i think/hope we'll get Debuchy and possibly Anita last few weeks of the window and maybe forward for the bench in January... Douglas may come in January but have feeling we'll look again next summer... I don't think we deliberately went for higher profile for our scouts etc. If you have this much success, you will become well known. You're right though, the fact we are now famous for getting a bargain is bound to count against us. So why let your chief scout do interviews for the media? Or your team manager to discuss it in length in the media... I don't have any knowledge of this going on at any other club... apart from Daniel Levy likes to drive a hard bargain perhaps... Just all seemed very unnecessary and a little self-congratuatly... At the same time though, it might work in our favour. If we put in an offer for a player the selling club knows we are not going to be held to ransom. If the player expresses an interest in joining us and then lets their club know, then it might help to net us a bargain. We've shown that we're happy to bide our time with players so the pressure is on the selling club - either put up with a disgruntled player or sell him at a reasonable price to his preferred buyer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 But we can do all that and keep a lower profile... Chairman/Owners hate having their faces rubbed in it... You only have to listen to the interview with the Peterbrough owner the other day talking about transfer deals and all the egos involved... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuv Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Watching this advert on the telly all the time really makes me want to get the Alan Pardew chant going. Some of the lads on here tried it at Blackburn last season. Great chant IMO. We've got (clap, clap) Alan Pardew We've got (clap, clap) Alan Pardew Yes we've got (clap, clap) Alan Pardew So glad you're mine! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 No. It's actually the same attitude that's seen us progress since we were in the Championship, by only doing deals when they're right for the club in the long term. This, supporting Newcastle is about patience nowadays. I'm pretty sure we'll get two new players in before the window and I've stopped worrying who they are and where they'll play. We've got a great squad for the league but will struggle to cope with the cups. We always would unless our squad was five players deeper. I think we do the best business in the league so let's continue as we have done Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 No. It's actually the same attitude that's seen us progress since we were in the Championship, by only doing deals when they're right for the club in the long term. This, supporting Newcastle is about patience nowadays. I'm pretty sure we'll get two new players in before the window and I've stopped worrying who they are and where they'll play. We've got a great squad for the league but will struggle to cope with the cups. We always would unless our squad was five players deeper. I think we do the best business in the league so let's continue as we have done Think we're relying on the development squad to provide the extra depth needed for Europe. A mix of first teamers and kids should be more than enough to get us through the group stages. Once we're in the elimination rounds we can start thinking about playing something closer to a full-strength squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Feeling the pressure Al? http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4484095/Alan-Pardew-hits-out-at-agents-over-slow-transfer-window.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Well that was certainly an "astonishing attack". Incredibly strong words there from Alan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattypnufc Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Feeling the pressure Al? http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4484095/Alan-Pardew-hits-out-at-agents-over-slow-transfer-window.html What a fucking waste of space of an article. Wouldn't expect anything less from that paper though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 How do they get away with articles like that :lol: Its so incredibly bad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Express have it as well tbf http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/339470? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 "Astonishing attack" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 That's some tirade at that article. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Anyone going to the AP & JC talk-in tonight?... Hopefully we'll get a better idea where we're at with transfers and playing style etc... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Express have it as well tbf http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/339470? Its hardly an attack though is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Express have it as well tbf http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/339470? He was just saying what and why things have been slow. Hardly an attack or a slam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Express have it as well tbf http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/339470? He was just saying what and why things have been slow. Hardly an attack or a slam. You avatar man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Saying that like, we can hardly talk about valuations. You want the best, you have to pay the best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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