Interpolic Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Actually I'm wrong, presumed Brendan Rodgers was Welsh because he's manager of Swansea and I've somehow managed to largely avoid him. Still, 3 English managers in the top flight, terrible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest palnese Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The first few pages in this thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Moyes has done a pretty good job with not much to spend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The first few pages in this thread I think I was fairly reasonable if not a little overly pessimistic about how well he would perform Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Moyes has done a pretty good job with not much to spend. 7th, 17th, 4th, 11th, 6th, 5th, 5th, 8th, 7th - Everton's finishes in their full seasons under Moyes, very good imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Moyes has done a pretty good job with not much to spend. 7th, 17th, 4th, 11th, 6th, 5th, 5th, 8th, 7th - Everton's finishes in their full seasons under Moyes, very good imo. Would be interested to see his net spend, Bilyaletdinov and Fellaini obviously cost a fair bit but then I can't think of many who cost much. Jagielka and Baines around £5-6m then :donknow: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The only thing i thought Shepherd had up on Ashley was that he wanted the club to do well; and by that i mean in a footballing sense. The Cisse signing has mad me reviewing that point of view. It's the first time since these owners came in that i thought they might be genuinely interested in seeing NUFC doing well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Anyway, back to Pardew. My thoughts on him have nothing to do with OTT reactions based on some results. I have never rated him and back up my opinions that he's an average limited manager who will never ammount to much especially at Newcastle based on what I see before me out there where it counts, the pitch. Forget the league table for a moment. Our performances have been sub-par in the main with one or two alarming scary performances thrown in that you would expect from a relegation haunted side or a side on the slide never mind a side seamingly sitting pretty in 6th. This league this season is so volatile and downright ordinary, a side like ours can get into the top 6 and even finish there or above, even on the back of mixed performances. Everton did it one year grinding out 1-0 wins and drawing games without ever being fully convincing performance wise. But long term.... Long-term is something that I pay particular interest in regarding this club. Long-term for example I know Danny Simpson is not good enough and will need replaced. Something many on here would agree with, indeed many would have him dropped tomorrow. So why is it that when I look long-term and consider that, based on what I see, i.e. the poor performances, the poor tactics, the odd team selections, the poor use of subs etc., Pardew, the man behind these issues, needs replaced, do I get flack and likewise those who share similar views as me? Yet these same people will think nothing of doing the exact same with Simpson for example or Obertan. I understand the need for stability etc. but I see in this current side of ours the nucleaus of a really good side, a top one. I also see in the scouting system we now have the ability to keep signing very good footballers who will repersent value for money out there on the pitch and as such I believe with the right kind of manager or coach we could go places, back into European football on a regular basis for one. Under Pardew I cannot see that happening because his football ideas and prinicples clash with things. He is a percentages one, keep a clean sheet first, get a draw etc. Get Ben Arfa to look at his prozone stats to see where he's going wrong etc. How about making him rewatch his goal against Blackburn Alan and telling him "more of that son" Pardew for me is a bit of a charlatan. He looks the part, talks the part and because of the likes of Krul, Cabaye, Tiote, Colo and the 15 goals of Ba, he appears to be doing the business but in reality those players in particular are papering over his many flaws and making his job very easy. When he is forced into making changes or asked to change things however he more often than not is shown up for what he is, a very limited manager. His gandling of certain players is shabby too, especially Ben Arfa, to drop him for Ryan Taylor after his wonder goal against Blackburn was piss poor and that decision alone set a near 50k crowd on a downer before a ball had even been kicked against QPR. A side by the way he was more than happy to kill the game off at the 60 minute marke despite a slender 1-0 advantage. This at home to what was and is a poor side. Now to his credit he has done a pretty decent job since taking over all things considered and he is by no means the worst man for the job, in many ways he's an indeal fit and yes 6th in the table is happy days given we were a Championship side a few years back but in reality we are a big Premier League club with a fine set of players, the best in my eyes since Sir Bobby's days and first XI for first XI on a par with Liverpool for me and therefore the best outside of Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City, Spurs, Arsenal and of course Liverpool. This is where we should be competing, the top 6 with these players. When we finished 4th under Sir Bobby back in 2001, I remember mid-way through the season fans were cock-a-hoop and considered where we were at the time way ahead of where they had us at the start of that season, just like now. However if we had of tailed off to finish 10th at the end of that season, would fans have been all "ah well, that's where we were at anyway"? No they fucking wouldn't have because we had proved at that stage of the season we were a top 4 side. Just like we are proving now that we are a top 6 side. Yet I feel through Pardew's tactical inability, poor team selections and use of subs that we could well find ourselves finishing as low as 10th and that's because in the main we don't play particularly well as a side in terms of a strong performance. We rely on the saves of Krul, the reading of the game of Colo, the industry of Cabaye and the goals of Ba. Imagine if we played good football though, what could this side acheieve in a league where the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea are so ordinary and there for the taking? Much more. But that is now. The future, the long-term? I can see us slipping into mid-table mediocrity under Pardew. He mentioned the tipping point recently, well, the tipping point for NUFC for me is this summer where I trully believe to kick on we need to look at replacing Pardew with someone with the tactical nous and footballing vision to compliment the extremely good side we have here. Interestingly, because of the set-up at Newcastle, such a transition could be seamless. We don't need a manager with an eye for talent or someone with the knack when it comes to the transfer market. We need a good coach, someone who understands tactics and can get a talented group of players playing football, something Pardew despite our lofty position seems unable to do. Certainly on a match to match basis anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Moyes has done a pretty good job with not much to spend. 7th, 17th, 4th, 11th, 6th, 5th, 5th, 8th, 7th - Everton's finishes in their full seasons under Moyes, very good imo. Would be interested to see his net spend, Bilyaletdinov and Fellaini obviously cost a fair bit but then I can't think of many who cost much. Jagielka and Baines around £5-6m then :donknow: Since coming to Goodison Park in March 2002, Moyes has spent an estimated £25.8m more than he has received in transfer fees – less than Kenny Dalglish has spent in eight months at Anfield. From the Guardian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuv Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 HTT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Your posts are so long, man. I don't like Pardew much but he's doing a better job than anyone else has for a while, so you of course stick with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 If we binned Pardew I think I'd be somewhere in between the levels of fuckedoffness I had between Hughton going and Keegan going. It'd be an absolutely appalling decision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 If we binned Pardew I think I'd be somewhere in between the levels of fuckedoffness I had between Hughton going and Keegan going. It'd be an absolutely appalling decision. Same. It's not going to happen anyway so i'm not worried. Pardew's our manager until Ashley leaves the club... or if we're nailed on to get relegated somewhere down the line. Whilst i think they might be coming round to the idea of seeing Newcastle as a football venture - and not just a business they want rid of - i still think that as long as our heads are comfortably above water, they'll never look to change the manager. Even if (at some point down the line, i'm not saying now) it looks as though we've gone as far as we can under Pards. I still don't think they've got that much drive/ambition/whatever you want to call it. Things are going well but i remain cynical over certain things. I'm convinced that his appointment wasn't for "shit, this guy's a great manager, we have to have him"-type reasons. Because his track record is rubbish. They appointed him because they knew him and he suited them. It's just good luck that he's turned out to be a pretty good match for the job. Harsh on Pardew but that's just the way that i will always see it. But anyway. The politics of his appointment aside, i think he's doing a great job and i've got a lot of faith in him at present. I'm happy with the steps we have made this season and i am excited by this new structure he is employing on the pitch. I think we're gradually making strides to becoming a 'carpet football' outfit, and i'm seriously looking forward to the Senegal lads being a part of it. I've also got high hopes for the summer, where - all being well - the transition to it being Pardew's First XI will have been completed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I'd more or less agree with that assessment aside from the carpet football thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 So we can't give a manager credit because the only reason we are doing well is because our players have played well? Baffling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I'd more or less agree with that assessment aside from the carpet football thing. Not everyone will agree, but i think the last three games have been geared towards a system focused on passing; we haven't seen the true profits of it yet because Shola and Best are essentially immobile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 It depends on who we replace him with, Some of the better British managers got re employed recently and there aint many good continental ones that are available right now. I hope we finally go foreign with names like loius van gaal. It would bring back attacking footy on the deck straight away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 It depends on who we replace him with, Some of the better British managers got re employed recently and there aint many good continental ones that are available right now. I hope we finally go foreign with names like loius van gaal. It would bring back attacking footy on the deck straight away. You say it like we play Allardyce-levels of long ball. Is this really how other people are seeing us at the moment? I really don't get it. The only players who punt it long in the side, in my opinion, are Simpson occasionally and Krul. I honestly don't think we're particularly direct. To me we look as slow-building as i've seen us in years; sometimes too slow (a la Brighton and, at times, QPR). But again, i make a suggestive nod to the lack of mobility up front being a reason for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Based on a hunch and nothing more I reckon he'll be replaced after next season. Think by then our squad will have improved significantly but the results won't and we'll be offered managers from all over Europe with their agents claiming they can do better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Based on a hunch and nothing more I reckon he'll be replaced after next season. Think by then our squad will have improved significantly but the results won't and we'll be offered managers from all over Europe with their agents claiming they can do better. Ashley and Llambias are still people with bad reputation in the business. It will take some time for good managers to think about coming to Newcastle, I think. If people see our blue print and are willing to work under Ashley's conditions, everything about the current structure and policy will appeal though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Your posts are so long, man. I don't like Pardew much but he's doing a better job than anyone else has for a while, so you of course stick with him. That depends on what you want and see long-term. Me, I see a rather mediocre future under Pardew which would be acceptable if we had mediocre players but we don't and I doubt we ever will under this set up. We look to sign good players that can only get better, for the youth sides all the way to the number 9 shirt itself. These good footballers don't tally with Pardew's football philopsphies which seem to be long ball and percentages football. It worries me when our manager considers Joey Barton wide left as a good decision, or Leon Best wide left. Or Ryan Taylor wide right at home to QPR in favour of Ben Arfa who a week prior had scored a wonder goal and generally terrorised the left-flank of the opposition. It worries me that despite seeing these good players week in week out in training he continues to deploy a long ball game which at times completely nulifies our strong area - midfield - while also playing into the opposition's hand up top with the listless Shola and Best combo that is so easy to defend against when the ball is launched long to them. Its a simple game for example. If you are to play Best and Shola up top they have to stay there and you have to put crosses in which means playing it wide quick and early with the full-backs pushing on. I'm no mug, I have a L3 coaches badge (for what its fucking worth by the way) so I know a little bit about tactics and the game, but surely nowhere near as much as Pardew who has played the game at the highest level and been a coach and manager for over a decade or so now, no?! This is why he scares me so much and forces me when judging his ability to come to these conclusions that long-term if we are to acheieve things, he is not and never will be the answer. He's all talk, a confidence trickster. He'd make a great salesman. Ironically, the reason he was appointed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Some people need to think where we were 2 seasons ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Some people need to think where we were 2 seasons ago. Or how about where we are historically? Relegation was a freak result. We are a Premier League club and a big club at that. The top 6 should always be the aim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Anyway, back to Pardew. My thoughts on him have nothing to do with OTT reactions based on some results. I have never rated him and back up my opinions that he's an average limited manager who will never ammount to much especially at Newcastle based on what I see before me out there where it counts, the pitch. Forget the league table for a moment. Our performances have been sub-par in the main with one or two alarming scary performances thrown in that you would expect from a relegation haunted side or a side on the slide never mind a side seamingly sitting pretty in 6th. This league this season is so volatile and downright ordinary, a side like ours can get into the top 6 and even finish there or above, even on the back of mixed performances. Everton did it one year grinding out 1-0 wins and drawing games without ever being fully convincing performance wise. But long term.... Long-term is something that I pay particular interest in regarding this club. Long-term for example I know Danny Simpson is not good enough and will need replaced. Something many on here would agree with, indeed many would have him dropped tomorrow. So why is it that when I look long-term and consider that, based on what I see, i.e. the poor performances, the poor tactics, the odd team selections, the poor use of subs etc., Pardew, the man behind these issues, needs replaced, do I get flack and likewise those who share similar views as me? Yet these same people will think nothing of doing the exact same with Simpson for example or Obertan. I understand the need for stability etc. but I see in this current side of ours the nucleaus of a really good side, a top one. I also see in the scouting system we now have the ability to keep signing very good footballers who will repersent value for money out there on the pitch and as such I believe with the right kind of manager or coach we could go places, back into European football on a regular basis for one. Under Pardew I cannot see that happening because his football ideas and prinicples clash with things. He is a percentages one, keep a clean sheet first, get a draw etc. Get Ben Arfa to look at his prozone stats to see where he's going wrong etc. How about making him rewatch his goal against Blackburn Alan and telling him "more of that son" Pardew for me is a bit of a charlatan. He looks the part, talks the part and because of the likes of Krul, Cabaye, Tiote, Colo and the 15 goals of Ba, he appears to be doing the business but in reality those players in particular are papering over his many flaws and making his job very easy. When he is forced into making changes or asked to change things however he more often than not is shown up for what he is, a very limited manager. His gandling of certain players is shabby too, especially Ben Arfa, to drop him for Ryan Taylor after his wonder goal against Blackburn was piss poor and that decision alone set a near 50k crowd on a downer before a ball had even been kicked against QPR. A side by the way he was more than happy to kill the game off at the 60 minute marke despite a slender 1-0 advantage. This at home to what was and is a poor side. Now to his credit he has done a pretty decent job since taking over all things considered and he is by no means the worst man for the job, in many ways he's an indeal fit and yes 6th in the table is happy days given we were a Championship side a few years back but in reality we are a big Premier League club with a fine set of players, the best in my eyes since Sir Bobby's days and first XI for first XI on a par with Liverpool for me and therefore the best outside of Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City, Spurs, Arsenal and of course Liverpool. This is where we should be competing, the top 6 with these players. When we finished 4th under Sir Bobby back in 2001, I remember mid-way through the season fans were cock-a-hoop and considered where we were at the time way ahead of where they had us at the start of that season, just like now. However if we had of tailed off to finish 10th at the end of that season, would fans have been all "ah well, that's where we were at anyway"? No they fucking wouldn't have because we had proved at that stage of the season we were a top 4 side. Just like we are proving now that we are a top 6 side. Yet I feel through Pardew's tactical inability, poor team selections and use of subs that we could well find ourselves finishing as low as 10th and that's because in the main we don't play particularly well as a side in terms of a strong performance. We rely on the saves of Krul, the reading of the game of Colo, the industry of Cabaye and the goals of Ba. Imagine if we played good football though, what could this side acheieve in a league where the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea are so ordinary and there for the taking? Much more. But that is now. The future, the long-term? I can see us slipping into mid-table mediocrity under Pardew. He mentioned the tipping point recently, well, the tipping point for NUFC for me is this summer where I trully believe to kick on we need to look at replacing Pardew with someone with the tactical nous and footballing vision to compliment the extremely good side we have here. Interestingly, because of the set-up at Newcastle, such a transition could be seamless. We don't need a manager with an eye for talent or someone with the knack when it comes to the transfer market. We need a good coach, someone who understands tactics and can get a talented group of players playing football, something Pardew despite our lofty position seems unable to do. Certainly on a match to match basis anyway. Interesting read. For me he's a good organiser and we hold our shape a lot more than we used to. He drilled the def into something or a wonder those early games. But the bottom line with him is that he is a thinly veiled long ball merchant and would have persevered with the bigun over the top to Obartan if he hadn't proved to be a total disaster. When Tiote and Cab play we play on the ground a bit more and try and keep posession more. He's been a bit underhand with his handling of Hatem yet let shit performances from others slide. He has an agenda. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderson Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Your posts are so long, man. I don't like Pardew much but he's doing a better job than anyone else has for a while, so you of course stick with him. That depends on what you want and see long-term. Me, I see a rather mediocre future under Pardew which would be acceptable if we had mediocre players but we don't and I doubt we ever will under this set up. We look to sign good players that can only get better, for the youth sides all the way to the number 9 shirt itself. These good footballers don't tally with Pardew's football philopsphies which seem to be long ball and percentages football. It worries me when our manager considers Joey Barton wide left as a good decision, or Leon Best wide left. Or Ryan Taylor wide right at home to QPR in favour of Ben Arfa who a week prior had scored a wonder goal and generally terrorised the left-flank of the opposition. It worries me that despite seeing these good players week in week out in training he continues to deploy a long ball game which at times completely nulifies our strong area - midfield - while also playing into the opposition's hand up top with the listless Shola and Best combo that is so easy to defend against when the ball is launched long to them. Its a simple game for example. If you are to play Best and Shola up top they have to stay there and you have to put crosses in which means playing it wide quick and early with the full-backs pushing on. I'm no mug, I have a L3 coaches badge (for what its fucking worth by the way) so I know a little bit about tactics and the game, but surely nowhere near as much as Pardew who has played the game at the highest level and been a coach and manager for over a decade or so now, no?! This is why he scares me so much and forces me when judging his ability to come to these conclusions that long-term if we are to acheieve things, he is not and never will be the answer. He's all talk, a confidence trickster. He'd make a great salesman. Ironically, the reason he was appointed Responds to complaint about posts being too long with long post. http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/160/673/ScumbagSteveHat.png?1313097115 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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