Heron Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 There are two main criticisms of Pardew - one the over-cautious, defensive approach and two the hoofball accusation. I think that the first - yesterday anyway - has some validity to it. The second, in my humble opinion, is absolute bollocks and has become something of an urban myth. I watch a side, including yesterday, who invariably play the ball along the deck and through midfield. We only resort to the long ball usually when there is no other outlet. Even the long balls which which were played yesderday were invariably pinged along the deck and reached their mark. I agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 There are two main criticisms of Pardew - one the over-cautious, defensive approach and two the hoofball accusation. I think that the first - yesterday anyway - has some validity to it. The second, in my humble opinion, is absolute bollocks and has become something of an urban myth. I watch a side, including yesterday, who invariably play the ball along the deck and through midfield. We only resort to the long ball usually when there is no other outlet. Even the long balls which which were played yesderday were invariably pinged along the deck and reached their mark. Were you in the hospitality? I can only think you had your beer goggles on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I don't want to have to get into the google time machine and start quoting from old WestHam forums. Don't make me. Don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 http://cdn2.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/160626/philip-rivers-confused_medium.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I don't want to have to get into the google time machine and start quoting from old WestHam forums. Don't make me. Don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToonZA Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Errr...get us into the top 7 of the league with an opportunity to play European football next season, despite having a slightly better than average squad and minimal spending money. After taking over a squad who were 100% behind the previous manager and maintaining good performances despite a total overhaul of key players. Like I said, there are some spackers on here, and i mean that in the least offensive way that can be interpreted. He's a one trick pony who has lucked himself into a job and for the first half of the season he lucked himself through games which we didn't deserve to get points from. We were getting points because Ba was getting goals from nothing when the service to him was poor yet he still managed to pull balls from behind him to bury when realistically he shouldn’t have had a chance. Our football has for much of the time been turgid dross but we’ve got away with it by going to places like QPR and lucking a draw. He’s lucked his way to getting a point at home against Spurs when he brought on the same stroller as he did yesterday but Stroller managed a goal. Our performances are now getting the kind of results that we deserved earlier in the season and instead of turning nothing performances into points, we’re starting to go the other way and turning fortunate positions into negative results. Our football under Pardew has been poor because that’s the way he likes to play football. We have good players who are watching the ball fly past them as the ball goes from back to front with one big hoof. The players who could control games are being bypassed for much of the game. The amount of money spent isn't a reflection on the type of players we've brought in. We've spent low and still managed to bring in quality because unlike Pardew, Carr is actually good at his job and we've benefited from that in as much as we have good players, even if the manager doesn't know how to get the best out of them. Can you list these good performances that you mention? Sunderland away, Stoke away, Man United away, Man United at home, Chelsea at home. What was bad about those perfomances? We were solid and played teams at their own games, only losing one of them, might I add. Stoke away?? - We were under the cosh for much of the second half and after they got one back to make it 1-2, there was only one team likely to score again and it was not us. 6 mins later, we get a very, very generous penalty, Ba converts and knocks the stuffing out Stoke. Result : Ba (3) - Stoke (1). ManU away - When Simpson was our second keeper? I will concede that those performances showed character and determination and I like that in a team; I would not say we were in control of these games and consequently the outcomes thereof. The teams at the top end of the table (where I would like us to be) are more often than not able to control possession and dictate the tempo and direction of the game. By doing this they are able to, by and large, determine the outcome of the game. Even though we are blessed with capable players, we are seldom in control of possession and therefore struggle to dictate proceedings so that we are in control of the outcome of the game. 12 wins in the league. 7 by one goal margin and 5 by 2 goal margin (Ba getting a hat-trick in 2 of these and 2 OGs in two other). None by a margin of three or more. Performance isn't just based on the style of football you play though, is it? It's how well you play, and we played well in all those games, despite it not beng the most attractive of football. Look I am not having a dig at you. I think we played well in patches in those games (even Obertan delivered for Ba against Stoke) but we also rode our luck on many occassions. Now you will have some luck during the season, but that luck could easily desert you and all you have left to rely upon is your ability. There is enough players in our squad with the ability to put in the required performance so that we end up getting the results (eg: Swansea, Wolves, QPR,etc). However they are not being deploying correctly so that we can get the maximum from them. I cannot recall how many times this season a NUFC win was a forgone conclusion. Its a lot of "edge of your seat" stuff with the result being determined by a moment of brilliance from one of our players (either in attack of defence). You canot rely on a fair share of luck and individual brilliance if you want to mount a sustained challenge for a place in Europe. Why they are being stifled is another question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I don't want to have to get into the google time machine and start quoting from old WestHam forums. Don't make me. Don't. You'll find the same on Southampton forums, I checked them out when he came here and they said what we're saying now. No plan B is probably the most popular comment about him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 There are two main criticisms of Pardew - one the over-cautious, defensive approach and two the hoofball accusation. I think that the first - yesterday anyway - has some validity to it. The second, in my humble opinion, is absolute bollocks and has become something of an urban myth. I watch a side, including yesterday, who invariably play the ball along the deck and through midfield. We only resort to the long ball usually when there is no other outlet. Even the long balls which which were played yesderday were invariably pinged along the deck and reached their mark. I agree. Lol funny game this is....i see the complete opposite. To me Pardew is dumbing down some of our more gifted players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 isn't all this moot? if he gets us top half and even exceeds that by getting us in europe he'll be staying, we should all get used to that imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 There are two main criticisms of Pardew - one the over-cautious, defensive approach and two the hoofball accusation. I think that the first - yesterday anyway - has some validity to it. The second, in my humble opinion, is absolute bollocks and has become something of an urban myth. I watch a side, including yesterday, who invariably play the ball along the deck and through midfield. We only resort to the long ball usually when there is no other outlet. Even the long balls which which were played yesderday were invariably pinged along the deck and reached their mark. I agree. Lol funny game this is....i see the complete opposite. To me Pardew is dumbing down some of our more gifted players. There is an element of this, but not as much as people make out. Some of our more attacking players are being made to play defensively, which isn't helping our cause as an attacking threat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I don't want to have to get into the google time machine and start quoting from old WestHam forums. Don't make me. Don't. You'll find the same on Southampton forums, I checked them out when he came here and they said what we're saying now. No plan B is probably the most popular comment about him. Keeping the ole powder dry till this thread goes 'to the next level'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 http://www.eplindex.com/10326/analysing-tim-krul-against-rivals-opta-stats.html http://i.imgur.com/27Tk1.jpg In terms of distribution, Krul tends to stand out a bit. His pass rate is the lowest of the top 7 ‘keepers, but it also happens to be the 3rd lowest in the whole Premier League behind Paul Robinson and Simon Mignolet. Furthermore, he passes the highest percentage of his passes straight forward, with only 4% (the lowest) going to his right, thus meaning he has some work to do on his passing composure and confidence. Wonder how this can be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikky Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Like most English managers he is tatically inept Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 isn't all this moot? if he gets us top half and even exceeds that by getting us in europe he'll be staying, we should all get used to that imo Why should that be the case? Does the same apply to Simpson for instance who should be upgraded? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 isn't all this moot? if he gets us top half and even exceeds that by getting us in europe he'll be staying, we should all get used to that imo Why should that be the case? Does the same apply to Simpson for instance who should be upgraded? Don't be daft man, you know it's not the same thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 http://www.eplindex.com/10326/analysing-tim-krul-against-rivals-opta-stats.html http://i.imgur.com/27Tk1.jpg In terms of distribution, Krul tends to stand out a bit. His pass rate is the lowest of the top 7 ‘keepers, but it also happens to be the 3rd lowest in the whole Premier League behind Paul Robinson and Simon Mignolet. Furthermore, he passes the highest percentage of his passes straight forward, with only 4% (the lowest) going to his right, thus meaning he has some work to do on his passing composure and confidence. Wonder how this can be? Sarcasm, I love it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 isn't all this moot? if he gets us top half and even exceeds that by getting us in europe he'll be staying, we should all get used to that imo Why should that be the case? Does the same apply to Simpson for instance who should be upgraded? i'm not saying i want it to be the case, i'm saying it will be with MA as owner - haven't they stated top half is their target? if so, bearing in mind they bagged hughton to bring their man in, why would they get shot? they don't give a shit about aesthetics Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Don't be daft man, you know it's not the same thing. I was being extreme, the point is, we should always want to do improve on something if it's a weakness and regardless of where we finish, I see Pardew as a weakness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Not once yesterday did Krul roll the ball out to the full backs. Even when Coloccini asks for it, he sends him away and howks it into the air. He's not doing that off his own bat. Take a look at Ben Foster's throw yesterday for whichever goal it was for what Krul should be looking to do every single time he collects it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Errr...get us into the top 7 of the league with an opportunity to play European football next season, despite having a slightly better than average squad and minimal spending money. After taking over a squad who were 100% behind the previous manager and maintaining good performances despite a total overhaul of key players. Like I said, there are some spackers on here, and i mean that in the least offensive way that can be interpreted. He's a one trick pony who has lucked himself into a job and for the first half of the season he lucked himself through games which we didn't deserve to get points from. We were getting points because Ba was getting goals from nothing when the service to him was poor yet he still managed to pull balls from behind him to bury when realistically he shouldn’t have had a chance. Our football has for much of the time been turgid dross but we’ve got away with it by going to places like QPR and lucking a draw. He’s lucked his way to getting a point at home against Spurs when he brought on the same stroller as he did yesterday but Stroller managed a goal. Our performances are now getting the kind of results that we deserved earlier in the season and instead of turning nothing performances into points, we’re starting to go the other way and turning fortunate positions into negative results. Our football under Pardew has been poor because that’s the way he likes to play football. We have good players who are watching the ball fly past them as the ball goes from back to front with one big hoof. The players who could control games are being bypassed for much of the game. The amount of money spent isn't a reflection on the type of players we've brought in. We've spent low and still managed to bring in quality because unlike Pardew, Carr is actually good at his job and we've benefited from that in as much as we have good players, even if the manager doesn't know how to get the best out of them. Can you list these good performances that you mention? Sunderland away, Stoke away, Man United away, Man United at home, Chelsea at home. What was bad about those perfomances? We were solid and played teams at their own games, only losing one of them, might I add. Stoke away?? - We were under the cosh for much of the second half and after they got one back to make it 1-2, there was only one team likely to score again and it was not us. 6 mins later, we get a very, very generous penalty, Ba converts and knocks the stuffing out Stoke. Result : Ba (3) - Stoke (1). ManU away - When Simpson was our second keeper? I will concede that those performances showed character and determination and I like that in a team; I would not say we were in control of these games and consequently the outcomes thereof. The teams at the top end of the table (where I would like us to be) are more often than not able to control possession and dictate the tempo and direction of the game. By doing this they are able to, by and large, determine the outcome of the game. Even though we are blessed with capable players, we are seldom in control of possession and therefore struggle to dictate proceedings so that we are in control of the outcome of the game. 12 wins in the league. 7 by one goal margin and 5 by 2 goal margin (Ba getting a hat-trick in 2 of these and 2 OGs in two other). None by a margin of three or more. Performance isn't just based on the style of football you play though, is it? It's how well you play, and we played well in all those games, despite it not beng the most attractive of football. Look I am not having a dig at you. I think we played well in patches in those games (even Obertan delivered for Ba against Stoke) but we also rode our luck on many occassions. Now you will have some luck during the season, but that luck could easily desert you and all you have left to rely upon is your ability. There is enough players in our squad with the ability to put in the required performance so that we end up getting the results (eg: Swansea, Wolves, QPR,etc). However they are not being deploying correctly so that we can get the maximum from them. I cannot recall how many times this season a NUFC win was a forgone conclusion. Its a lot of "edge of your seat" stuff with the result being determined by a moment of brilliance from one of our players (either in attack of defence). You canot rely on a fair share of luck and individual brilliance if you want to mount a sustained challenge for a place in Europe. Why they are being stifled is another question. I know you weren't mate, and I agree with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 http://www.eplindex.com/10326/analysing-tim-krul-against-rivals-opta-stats.html http://i.imgur.com/27Tk1.jpg In terms of distribution, Krul tends to stand out a bit. His pass rate is the lowest of the top 7 ‘keepers, but it also happens to be the 3rd lowest in the whole Premier League behind Paul Robinson and Simon Mignolet. Furthermore, he passes the highest percentage of his passes straight forward, with only 4% (the lowest) going to his right, thus meaning he has some work to do on his passing composure and confidence. Wonder how this can be? I've been wondering the same thing all season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 i'm not saying i want it to be the case, i'm saying it will be with MA as owner - haven't they stated top half is their target? if so, bearing in mind they bagged hughton to bring their man in, why would they get shot? they don't give a s*** about aesthetics I'm not saying that they will get rid of him, I still wouldn't be surprised if they did. It doesn't matter what our original target was for the season, I think they will see where we have been and could possibly see a position below where we are now as being failure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikky Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Wullie: thats why we miss Saylor and a proper RB (Santon and Fergie LB) Our right side is so weak and is the main root to our struggles at times this season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 isn't all this moot? if he gets us top half and even exceeds that by getting us in europe he'll be staying, we should all get used to that imo this is exactly what i doubt, i think we would finish between 9th to 11th. We would then see what Ashley has in plans for us going to the next 5 years. Actually think he might surprise us if the right person came along. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardsleymagic Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I think there are a lot of people now thinking we have chance of getting into Europe despite Pardew, not because of him. When a lot of us can see (even without our black and white goggles on) that some of our players (Cabaye, Tiote, Ben Afa etc), are capable of so much more than they are showing. And others (Ba and such) are not being used to the best of their capabilities. When you look at the players we have, we surely must have a better chance of success trying to play foorball rather than hoofball. For me thats the worrying thing. If Pardew can't see it then i can't really see us progressing much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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