Heron Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Don't know how you can come up with something like a claim that we played well against Chelsea. Sturridge could and should have had an absolute hatful, the amount of times he was in behind Ryan Taylor. Displaying clearly that Taylor can't even do the basics of defending when he doesn't have a second defacto fullback playing infront of him. To be fair Sturridge would wipe the floor with dozens of full backs in the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Errr...get us into the top 7 of the league with an opportunity to play European football next season, despite having a slightly better than average squad and minimal spending money. After taking over a squad who were 100% behind the previous manager and maintaining good performances despite a total overhaul of key players. Like I said, there are some spackers on here, and i mean that in the least offensive way that can be interpreted. He's a one trick pony who has lucked himself into a job and for the first half of the season he lucked himself through games which we didn't deserve to get points from. We were getting points because Ba was getting goals from nothing when the service to him was poor yet he still managed to pull balls from behind him to bury when realistically he shouldn’t have had a chance. Our football has for much of the time been turgid dross but we’ve got away with it by going to places like QPR and lucking a draw. He’s lucked his way to getting a point at home against Spurs when he brought on the same stroller as he did yesterday but Stroller managed a goal. Our performances are now getting the kind of results that we deserved earlier in the season and instead of turning nothing performances into points, we’re starting to go the other way and turning fortunate positions into negative results. Our football under Pardew has been poor because that’s the way he likes to play football. We have good players who are watching the ball fly past them as the ball goes from back to front with one big hoof. The players who could control games are being bypassed for much of the game. The amount of money spent isn't a reflection on the type of players we've brought in. We've spent low and still managed to bring in quality because unlike Pardew, Carr is actually good at his job and we've benefited from that in as much as we have good players, even if the manager doesn't know how to get the best out of them. Can you list these good performances that you mention? Sunderland away, Stoke away, Man United away, Man United at home, Chelsea at home. What was bad about those perfomances? We were solid and played teams at their own games, only losing one of them, might I add. Stoke away?? - We were under the cosh for much of the second half and after they got one back to make it 1-2, there was only one team likely to score again and it was not us. 6 mins later, we get a very, very generous penalty, Ba converts and knocks the stuffing out Stoke. Result : Ba (3) - Stoke (1). ManU away - When Simpson was our second keeper? I will concede that those performances showed character and determination and I like that in a team; I would not say we were in control of these games and consequently the outcomes thereof. The teams at the top end of the table (where I would like us to be) are more often than not able to control possession and dictate the tempo and direction of the game. By doing this they are able to, by and large, determine the outcome of the game. Even though we are blessed with capable players, we are seldom in control of possession and therefore struggle to dictate proceedings so that we are in control of the outcome of the game. 12 wins in the league. 7 by one goal margin and 5 by 2 goal margin (Ba getting a hat-trick in 2 of these and 2 OGs in two other). None by a margin of three or more. The bolded bit is the key thing for me, and what separates us from the top six by quite a distance. All of the teams above us will control most games they play against inferior opposition through possession football and quality passing. If we want to be serious about competing with them then we'll have to adopt a similar philosophy at some point. I honestly believed we were on our way to doing it this season after the signings we made, but we have gone a different route (mainly route 1). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Cognitive dissonance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 As for now till the end of the season, we must find a plan B especially when "Hoof and cross Pardew Percentage football" dont work. If he doesnt come around finding a solution to this , i guess most will turn on him automatically. The truth is when we play good football at some point our players will be worth more as well (Yes we are a selling club). With good football Even the crowd would be the 12th player to spur us on, how quiet we were when we were 2-0 up at wolves....maybe for "some" results means everything but i am 100% sure among those 50,000 people there are good few looking for excitement and to be entertained ,not just an Opera show. I pretty sure Ashely isnt oblivious to this as he is a business man. In terms of Pardew getting us over the line where we will pick up results but also play some entertaining stuff, I have little faith, as i rate him closer to Souness and Sam in terms of formations and tactics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfmag Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 There are two main criticisms of Pardew - one the over-cautious, defensive approach and two the hoofball accusation. I think that the first - yesterday anyway - has some validity to it. The second, in my humble opinion, is absolute bollocks and has become something of an urban myth. I watch a side, including yesterday, who invariably play the ball along the deck and through midfield. We only resort to the long ball usually when there is no other outlet. Even the long balls which which were played yesderday were invariably pinged along the deck and reached their mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Errr...get us into the top 7 of the league with an opportunity to play European football next season, despite having a slightly better than average squad and minimal spending money. After taking over a squad who were 100% behind the previous manager and maintaining good performances despite a total overhaul of key players. Like I said, there are some spackers on here, and i mean that in the least offensive way that can be interpreted. He's a one trick pony who has lucked himself into a job and for the first half of the season he lucked himself through games which we didn't deserve to get points from. We were getting points because Ba was getting goals from nothing when the service to him was poor yet he still managed to pull balls from behind him to bury when realistically he shouldn’t have had a chance. Our football has for much of the time been turgid dross but we’ve got away with it by going to places like QPR and lucking a draw. He’s lucked his way to getting a point at home against Spurs when he brought on the same stroller as he did yesterday but Stroller managed a goal. Our performances are now getting the kind of results that we deserved earlier in the season and instead of turning nothing performances into points, we’re starting to go the other way and turning fortunate positions into negative results. Our football under Pardew has been poor because that’s the way he likes to play football. We have good players who are watching the ball fly past them as the ball goes from back to front with one big hoof. The players who could control games are being bypassed for much of the game. The amount of money spent isn't a reflection on the type of players we've brought in. We've spent low and still managed to bring in quality because unlike Pardew, Carr is actually good at his job and we've benefited from that in as much as we have good players, even if the manager doesn't know how to get the best out of them. Can you list these good performances that you mention? spurs,man utd, villa away, stoke. the tactics aren't all hoofball. first half v fulham was as good as i've seen us actually play but with little end product due to the forwards we had playing. yesterday for some reason pardew decided to go long and it failed, can't really say it's a seaqson long tactic, bit like the high line we ALWAYS play. Is there anything which leads you to believe Pardew has a style of football? Personally I believe it changes depending on the personnel on the pitch whether we pass it or hoof it long. The general instruction just seems to be to solid at the back so we end up with two holding midfielders and and wide players who also have to be more mindful of defensive duties than offensive. Some continental teams also set up this way but they pass their way out of defence and counter quickly. We usually hump it high towards Ba or Cisse. i think it depends as much on the opposition and yesterday he got it badly wrong. knowing the way sunderland play i doubt we'll be going long as much next week. Why is it do you think Cabaye ends up sitting deep alongside Tiote in most every game and against all opposition? Personally I think it contributes a lot towards hoofball when midfielders don't link up with the forwards. i remember early doors in the season when cabaye was pushing on right up behind the strikers (villa away springs to mind), he/we looked like we had the potential to really play football and hurt teams, no coincidence people were rating cabaye then and now noone is talking about him anymore that's been coached out of him, he came from a title winning champions team after all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 There are two main criticisms of Pardew - one the over-cautious, defensive approach and two the hoofball accusation. I think that the first - yesterday anyway - has some validity to it. The second, in my humble opinion, is absolute bollocks and has become something of an urban myth. I watch a side, including yesterday, who invariably play the ball along the deck and through midfield. We only resort to the long ball usually when there is no other outlet. Even the long balls which which were played yesderday were invariably pinged along the deck and reached their mark. I just find that an incredible thing to say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 There are two main criticisms of Pardew - one the over-cautious, defensive approach and two the hoofball accusation. I think that the first - yesterday anyway - has some validity to it. The second, in my humble opinion, is absolute bollocks and has become something of an urban myth. I watch a side, including yesterday, who invariably play the ball along the deck and through midfield. We only resort to the long ball usually when there is no other outlet. Even the long balls which which were played yesderday were invariably pinged along the deck and reached their mark. I agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 There are two main criticisms of Pardew - one the over-cautious, defensive approach and two the hoofball accusation. I think that the first - yesterday anyway - has some validity to it. The second, in my humble opinion, is absolute bollocks and has become something of an urban myth. I watch a side, including yesterday, who invariably play the ball along the deck and through midfield. We only resort to the long ball usually when there is no other outlet. Even the long balls which which were played yesderday were invariably pinged along the deck and reached their mark. Were you in the hospitality? I can only think you had your beer goggles on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I don't want to have to get into the google time machine and start quoting from old WestHam forums. Don't make me. Don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 http://cdn2.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/160626/philip-rivers-confused_medium.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I don't want to have to get into the google time machine and start quoting from old WestHam forums. Don't make me. Don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToonZA Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Errr...get us into the top 7 of the league with an opportunity to play European football next season, despite having a slightly better than average squad and minimal spending money. After taking over a squad who were 100% behind the previous manager and maintaining good performances despite a total overhaul of key players. Like I said, there are some spackers on here, and i mean that in the least offensive way that can be interpreted. He's a one trick pony who has lucked himself into a job and for the first half of the season he lucked himself through games which we didn't deserve to get points from. We were getting points because Ba was getting goals from nothing when the service to him was poor yet he still managed to pull balls from behind him to bury when realistically he shouldn’t have had a chance. Our football has for much of the time been turgid dross but we’ve got away with it by going to places like QPR and lucking a draw. He’s lucked his way to getting a point at home against Spurs when he brought on the same stroller as he did yesterday but Stroller managed a goal. Our performances are now getting the kind of results that we deserved earlier in the season and instead of turning nothing performances into points, we’re starting to go the other way and turning fortunate positions into negative results. Our football under Pardew has been poor because that’s the way he likes to play football. We have good players who are watching the ball fly past them as the ball goes from back to front with one big hoof. The players who could control games are being bypassed for much of the game. The amount of money spent isn't a reflection on the type of players we've brought in. We've spent low and still managed to bring in quality because unlike Pardew, Carr is actually good at his job and we've benefited from that in as much as we have good players, even if the manager doesn't know how to get the best out of them. Can you list these good performances that you mention? Sunderland away, Stoke away, Man United away, Man United at home, Chelsea at home. What was bad about those perfomances? We were solid and played teams at their own games, only losing one of them, might I add. Stoke away?? - We were under the cosh for much of the second half and after they got one back to make it 1-2, there was only one team likely to score again and it was not us. 6 mins later, we get a very, very generous penalty, Ba converts and knocks the stuffing out Stoke. Result : Ba (3) - Stoke (1). ManU away - When Simpson was our second keeper? I will concede that those performances showed character and determination and I like that in a team; I would not say we were in control of these games and consequently the outcomes thereof. The teams at the top end of the table (where I would like us to be) are more often than not able to control possession and dictate the tempo and direction of the game. By doing this they are able to, by and large, determine the outcome of the game. Even though we are blessed with capable players, we are seldom in control of possession and therefore struggle to dictate proceedings so that we are in control of the outcome of the game. 12 wins in the league. 7 by one goal margin and 5 by 2 goal margin (Ba getting a hat-trick in 2 of these and 2 OGs in two other). None by a margin of three or more. Performance isn't just based on the style of football you play though, is it? It's how well you play, and we played well in all those games, despite it not beng the most attractive of football. Look I am not having a dig at you. I think we played well in patches in those games (even Obertan delivered for Ba against Stoke) but we also rode our luck on many occassions. Now you will have some luck during the season, but that luck could easily desert you and all you have left to rely upon is your ability. There is enough players in our squad with the ability to put in the required performance so that we end up getting the results (eg: Swansea, Wolves, QPR,etc). However they are not being deploying correctly so that we can get the maximum from them. I cannot recall how many times this season a NUFC win was a forgone conclusion. Its a lot of "edge of your seat" stuff with the result being determined by a moment of brilliance from one of our players (either in attack of defence). You canot rely on a fair share of luck and individual brilliance if you want to mount a sustained challenge for a place in Europe. Why they are being stifled is another question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I don't want to have to get into the google time machine and start quoting from old WestHam forums. Don't make me. Don't. You'll find the same on Southampton forums, I checked them out when he came here and they said what we're saying now. No plan B is probably the most popular comment about him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 There are two main criticisms of Pardew - one the over-cautious, defensive approach and two the hoofball accusation. I think that the first - yesterday anyway - has some validity to it. The second, in my humble opinion, is absolute bollocks and has become something of an urban myth. I watch a side, including yesterday, who invariably play the ball along the deck and through midfield. We only resort to the long ball usually when there is no other outlet. Even the long balls which which were played yesderday were invariably pinged along the deck and reached their mark. I agree. Lol funny game this is....i see the complete opposite. To me Pardew is dumbing down some of our more gifted players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 isn't all this moot? if he gets us top half and even exceeds that by getting us in europe he'll be staying, we should all get used to that imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 There are two main criticisms of Pardew - one the over-cautious, defensive approach and two the hoofball accusation. I think that the first - yesterday anyway - has some validity to it. The second, in my humble opinion, is absolute bollocks and has become something of an urban myth. I watch a side, including yesterday, who invariably play the ball along the deck and through midfield. We only resort to the long ball usually when there is no other outlet. Even the long balls which which were played yesderday were invariably pinged along the deck and reached their mark. I agree. Lol funny game this is....i see the complete opposite. To me Pardew is dumbing down some of our more gifted players. There is an element of this, but not as much as people make out. Some of our more attacking players are being made to play defensively, which isn't helping our cause as an attacking threat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I don't want to have to get into the google time machine and start quoting from old WestHam forums. Don't make me. Don't. You'll find the same on Southampton forums, I checked them out when he came here and they said what we're saying now. No plan B is probably the most popular comment about him. Keeping the ole powder dry till this thread goes 'to the next level'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 http://www.eplindex.com/10326/analysing-tim-krul-against-rivals-opta-stats.html http://i.imgur.com/27Tk1.jpg In terms of distribution, Krul tends to stand out a bit. His pass rate is the lowest of the top 7 ‘keepers, but it also happens to be the 3rd lowest in the whole Premier League behind Paul Robinson and Simon Mignolet. Furthermore, he passes the highest percentage of his passes straight forward, with only 4% (the lowest) going to his right, thus meaning he has some work to do on his passing composure and confidence. Wonder how this can be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikky Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Like most English managers he is tatically inept Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 isn't all this moot? if he gets us top half and even exceeds that by getting us in europe he'll be staying, we should all get used to that imo Why should that be the case? Does the same apply to Simpson for instance who should be upgraded? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shak Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 isn't all this moot? if he gets us top half and even exceeds that by getting us in europe he'll be staying, we should all get used to that imo Why should that be the case? Does the same apply to Simpson for instance who should be upgraded? Don't be daft man, you know it's not the same thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 http://www.eplindex.com/10326/analysing-tim-krul-against-rivals-opta-stats.html http://i.imgur.com/27Tk1.jpg In terms of distribution, Krul tends to stand out a bit. His pass rate is the lowest of the top 7 ‘keepers, but it also happens to be the 3rd lowest in the whole Premier League behind Paul Robinson and Simon Mignolet. Furthermore, he passes the highest percentage of his passes straight forward, with only 4% (the lowest) going to his right, thus meaning he has some work to do on his passing composure and confidence. Wonder how this can be? Sarcasm, I love it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 isn't all this moot? if he gets us top half and even exceeds that by getting us in europe he'll be staying, we should all get used to that imo Why should that be the case? Does the same apply to Simpson for instance who should be upgraded? i'm not saying i want it to be the case, i'm saying it will be with MA as owner - haven't they stated top half is their target? if so, bearing in mind they bagged hughton to bring their man in, why would they get shot? they don't give a shit about aesthetics Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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