Alan Pardew

[Guest palnese]

[Skirge]

Newcastle’s Pardew Outclasses sunderland’s O’Neill

BY JACKIE SMITHFIELD ON MONDAY 5TH MARCH 2012

 

 

Obviously disappointed to have dropped two points against such an average side but after such a poor showing first half and going into injury time one down (after missing a penalty), you have to see it as a moral victory for Newcastle United on the pitch.

 

In the aftermath off the pitch you have to see it as Newcastle claiming another victory, as I have to say that Alan Pardew has gone even further up in my estimation  as he has wiped the floor with Martin O’Neill in the post-match comments….

 

Martin O’Neill “We were coping with them until we went down to 10 men.” Stephane’s (Sessegnon) was a red-card offence and Lee (Cattermole) cannot be doing that sort of thing [swearing at the referee].

 

He should leave it to me, but in mitigation we’d heard some of their staff visited the referee’s room at half-time. Lee felt a lot of decisions went Newcastle’s way in the second half. That’s not saying I agree with that, but I think even Newcastle would agree they were lucky to still have 11 men on the field. Tiote is a fine player, but he was lucky to stay on the pitch”.

 

Alan Pardew “I didn’t like the way it started with the first tackle, it was premeditated and I’m disappointed with that. I think Cattermole would have gone off at any other time. That set the tone, it was more about being physical than anything else.

 

That (visiting the referee) is completely untrue. None of our staff entered the referee’s room or the officials’ dressing room.

 

The game was a little bit unsavoury at times and we probably should have been more grown up about it. If we overstepped the mark, myself included, I apologise.

 

We shake hands at the end and it’s all forgotten, at least in my case. I’d have liked to have a drink and a chat with Martin, but I hear he’s already gone, so I’ll be drinking alone”.

 

What trampy behaviour by O’Neill, making wild claims about allegedly pressurising the referee which he obviously hasn’t seen for himself.

 

The icing on the cake though is the mackem manager scurrying off back to mackemland (or wherever it is in Newcastle he lives if he’s anything like his players!) rather than doing the done thing of having a chat and a drink with his opposite number.

 

I’m beginning to believe it must be true that O’Neill has always been a sunderland fan at heart!

http://www.themag.co.uk/the-mag-wire/newcastles-pardew-outclasses-sunderlands-oneill/

[Foluwashola]

Hear wor Pards was starting on MONg? 

 

Despite the horrific football he had us playing in the 1st half, what a legend.

[toon25]

 

I don't think our play has been helped by the fact that Cabaye has been awful since the Man U game. When Ben Arfa came on and opened things up giving the two central midfielders more space even Tiote was more incisive and coming forward like he was the creative force ffs.

 

To be fair it took Silva at City a season before he started to really begin to play in this league. It's still early days for Cabaye and you could argue that this is Ben Arfa's first real season too what with the injury. I think both will go on to become much more effective once they've bedded in a bit more.

 

Agree with this 100%. Silva was a good player last year, but this season he's been superb. Am hoping that Cabaye and HBA are having their 'bedding in' season this year and will look to kick on next. Certainly ought to play further up the pitch mind.

[MyPalAl]

 

I don't think our play has been helped by the fact that Cabaye has been awful since the Man U game. When Ben Arfa came on and opened things up giving the two central midfielders more space even Tiote was more incisive and coming forward like he was the creative force ffs.

 

To be fair it took Silva at City a season before he started to really begin to play in this league. It's still early days for Cabaye and you could argue that this is Ben Arfa's first real season too what with the injury. I think both will go on to become much more effective once they've bedded in a bit more.

 

Agree with this 100%. Silva was a good player last year, but this season he's been superb. Am hoping that Cabaye and HBA are having their 'bedding in' season this year and will look to kick on next. Certainly ought to play further up the pitch mind.

 

Totally agree with both posts

[MyPalAl]

http://i42.tinypic.com/1zvfi8o.jpg

 

Fantastic!! 

[Optimistic Nut]

Made the right changes at the right time yesterday anyway. Saw it wasn't working and bringing HBA on changed the game. Even before the sending-off there was only one team going to get the second goal, we battered them from the kick-off when we went back out. Shola for Cisse was the right change too.

 

Fingers crossed he plays HBA from the start at Arsenal.

[Spider Jerusalem]

We shake hands at the end and it’s all forgotten, at least in my case. I’d have liked to have a drink and a chat with Martin, but I hear he’s already gone, so I’ll be drinking alone”.

 

 

 

[Neil]

HawK, that's insanely negative man. We've made some good progress since relegation, making the right signings and signing existing players to long contracts, our best league position for ages, and you post something like that? Way over the top IMO.

 

I agree Ashley might never hire a manager who would challenge him, but that's just something we have to deal with and all the more reason to back Pardew.

I think some of these people forget that we were sitting a league below in dire straits only two years ago and were sitting in the bottom half when the man took the helm. They forget that he had to sell his most high profile player two or three weeks into his career here. Anything above seventh for this club, is a great result and it is ridiculous to act like Pardew had no part in this. I am not a supporter of some of the negative football he has employed, but at the same time, he completely changed the formation earlier in the season to give Ben Arfa room to operate. I think he is learning and adjusting and it is good to give him time in which to do so.

 

As this is a thread on Pardew, I won't go into the fact that our progress in no circumstances whatsoever should be measured by how far we've come since we got promoted back. It should be measured from when MA took over, almost 5 years ago in May 2007. Our progress under Pardew is better than Hughton, that I won't argue with, less romantic performances and results but a more pragmatic and effective way to grind out results. But the evidence on the pitch in the previous few months shows a manager who doesn't grasp the fundamentals, today a prime example.

 

At the end of the day, if you were to compare our players, man to man, with the best of the PL, we should and would be up there. The only reason we're not is due to the manager. One thing's for sure as far as I'm concerned, if Bobby were here, Hatem would have played the full 90 minutes of every single game he's been fit and available for. He's meeting Ashley's criteria, so he's safe for now. But there's no reason to accept where we are, we should be aiming for better with what we have. Whether there is a manager available to do this right now, is another question entirely. It doesn't mean I don't have the right to pass opinion on the fact that Pardew is clearly out of his depth at this level.

 

At the end of the day, what the hell are you smoking?

 

 

You are quite daft if you do not think players like Cabaye, Tiote, Ben Arfa, Cisse, Ba, Coloccini and Krul wouldn't be pushing for starting births for most of the top 4-5 clubs in the country, bar City. To argue that every player has to be of this class, is pedantic. You could pick apart any of those sides for weaknesses in certain positions. The point I was making, is with players of this ilk, a better manager than Pardew would be achieving more, because it's not for want of a better starting XI.

 

Your general point about you potentially doing better with someone other than Pardew is fair enough and seems to be the main issue on this board at the moment. However, IMO you're overestimating the quality of your squad. Coloccini is a class act and would get into pretty much every starting line up in the league. The rest, to varying degrees, wouldn't. You've every right to say you have some quality players but you're getting ahead of yourself in my view. You're using a very harsh stick to beat Pardew with by stating/implying most of your first team players would be of top 4 quality.

 

Cabaye and Tiote for example, when I see them, I see good players but not to the extent to which I've read them being previously praised on here.

[Incognito]

I think the only thing both Cabaye and Tiote need to make them both real quality players is consistency.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think we've got a bit over excited because we've got some genuinely good players for the first time in ages. It doesn't necessarily follow that we have a top 5 or 6 team yet though. Certainly not that we should expect that as our rightful place.

[Dr Venkman]

What about a team playing to something near it's potential? Or looking like we might be moving towards it? Again, next season will be the real judge of whether Pardew's ever gonna do it but there's alarm bells ringing for me and they're getting louder every week.

[GuyP]

i thought the game couldnt get any better, til i just heard snippets of his interview after proclaiming Shola a legend...thank you Pards

[HawK]

HawK, that's insanely negative man. We've made some good progress since relegation, making the right signings and signing existing players to long contracts, our best league position for ages, and you post something like that? Way over the top IMO.

 

I agree Ashley might never hire a manager who would challenge him, but that's just something we have to deal with and all the more reason to back Pardew.

I think some of these people forget that we were sitting a league below in dire straits only two years ago and were sitting in the bottom half when the man took the helm. They forget that he had to sell his most high profile player two or three weeks into his career here. Anything above seventh for this club, is a great result and it is ridiculous to act like Pardew had no part in this. I am not a supporter of some of the negative football he has employed, but at the same time, he completely changed the formation earlier in the season to give Ben Arfa room to operate. I think he is learning and adjusting and it is good to give him time in which to do so.

 

As this is a thread on Pardew, I won't go into the fact that our progress in no circumstances whatsoever should be measured by how far we've come since we got promoted back. It should be measured from when MA took over, almost 5 years ago in May 2007. Our progress under Pardew is better than Hughton, that I won't argue with, less romantic performances and results but a more pragmatic and effective way to grind out results. But the evidence on the pitch in the previous few months shows a manager who doesn't grasp the fundamentals, today a prime example.

 

At the end of the day, if you were to compare our players, man to man, with the best of the PL, we should and would be up there. The only reason we're not is due to the manager. One thing's for sure as far as I'm concerned, if Bobby were here, Hatem would have played the full 90 minutes of every single game he's been fit and available for. He's meeting Ashley's criteria, so he's safe for now. But there's no reason to accept where we are, we should be aiming for better with what we have. Whether there is a manager available to do this right now, is another question entirely. It doesn't mean I don't have the right to pass opinion on the fact that Pardew is clearly out of his depth at this level.

 

At the end of the day, what the hell are you smoking?

 

 

You are quite daft if you do not think players like Cabaye, Tiote, Ben Arfa, Cisse, Ba, Coloccini and Krul wouldn't be pushing for starting births for most of the top 4-5 clubs in the country, bar City. To argue that every player has to be of this class, is pedantic. You could pick apart any of those sides for weaknesses in certain positions. The point I was making, is with players of this ilk, a better manager than Pardew would be achieving more, because it's not for want of a better starting XI.

 

Your general point about you potentially doing better with someone other than Pardew is fair enough and seems to be the main issue on this board at the moment. However, IMO you're overestimating the quality of your squad. Coloccini is a class act and would get into pretty much every starting line up in the league. The rest, to varying degrees, wouldn't. You've every right to say you have some quality players but you're getting ahead of yourself in my view. You're using a very harsh stick to beat Pardew with by stating/implying most of your first team players would be of top 4 quality.

 

Cabaye and Tiote for example, when I see them, I see good players but not to the extent to which I've read them being previously praised on here.

 

That's a fair point, but I do think, given how Cabaye is starting in the middle for France ahead of some absolute quality players should indicate that something isn't right with his club form. The same could be said of Tiote - I think they would both look twice the player they are in a system that keeps the ball on the deck from keeper to midfield. Of course as a supporter my glasses are slightly tinted, I won't argue against that. It's like the Allardyce saga all over again, except this time we actually have a damn good starting XI, the best since Sir Bobby in my opinion, and it's so frustrating.

 

Keegan had a lot less than what Pardew has now, and a few seasons ago against a stronger Man United side at the beginning of the season before he went, we bossed them at Old Trafford. We were playing good football and I'm pretty sure the whole forum was united in the hope that we were going on to better things. Whereas at the moment, I'm scratching my head to think how long it's going to take until we're found out with our constant route 1 football with strikers who can't win a header or hold off a challenge. For his ability to drill the defence and be tight, with the right people, it's frustrating he can't get the basics with the other 6 players on the field. How quickly did it take for Keegan to come in and switch to a 4-3-3 with Owen, Viduka and Martins? We all thought about this on the forum, but to actually have a manager to have the confidence and balls to carry it out came as a shock after the recent procession of managers. I don't think Pardew has the capability of taking the risks and thus earning rewards that come with them. I'm using Keegan as an example as he was able to revitalize a stagnant squad, but the same could have been said of Sir Bobby.

 

For me it all boils down to this; should I be satisfied with where we are, knowing that with a better manager we could be doing better? Or should I be satisfied that we could be in a worse position if our manager wasn't as strong as Pardew. Either way, I am satisfied that we are at least up there challenging around 6th place, but this form has been less about the manager, and more about Demba Ba's incredible form. It reminds me a great deal of Roeder's first half-season in charge where we fluked our way to 7th, and no-one had a clue how we were winning because the football was shocking, and Ameobi was scoring the goals. Lo and behold, over time, this ideology failed because eventually the results caught up with the performances and the strength of the first XI and he had to go. I believe for the same reason, due the lack of progressive and adaptive football, we have already reached our ceiling. A false ceiling with the infrastructure and players that we have.

 

I'd rate Pardew alongside Roeder in quite a few ways, seemingly able when there's limited options and where the team would pick itself, but with the full strength of the squad, unable to make the big decisions that could ultimately take us to the next level by getting the best out of the squad. One of the official reasons cited for his departure from Southampton, was the board's annoyance that they felt Pardew was unable to work with a squad of players outside the first XI. It's easy to get romanticized towards the man, with his great interviews, good newspaper quotes and so forth, probably the best of our managers in many a year in this regard, and our league position. Historically for us, with a good manager in the PL, we've been a top 4 club both times.

 

Perhaps I am less easily pleased than others - not that this is necessarily a good thing, I'd rather be happy than sad! - but since Keegan's original departure, there have been so many false-dawns that it's becoming easier and easier to see the signs of a management style that will either develop and progress our squad and club, and one that doesn't. Only Bobby's shown us what we are capable of, as a club with our fanbase, crowds, history and revenue since Keegan left. Pardew's just not of the quality that this club should be aiming to recruit for his position. We won't ever go beyond this if Mike Ashley continues to run the club how he does, that's why I'm so sad right now, because no manager capable of what the previous 2 legends have done, would work for us under Mike Ashley, for all the good things he's done recently.

 

That said, am I happy now, as a Newcastle United supporter from the age of 6 and now 28 with our direction? Maybe, if I've had my expectations so horribly shattered in the past 5 years that to be aiming just for a top 6 or 7 finish should be seen as a success. But Mike Ashley still hasn't broken me, and now that we've got the players and a system behind the squad geared for success, I won't be happy until he decides to let go and give control to a man that can bring back the good times to SJP. Until then, I'll just be as apathetic as ever.

[Ronaldo]

Keegan and his 4-3-3 mentioned again? We finished 12th that season.

[HawK]

Keegan and his 4-3-3 mentioned again? We finished 12th that season.

 

Disappointed, expected much better from you.

[Yorkie]

Keegan and his 4-3-3 mentioned again? We finished 12th that season.

 

I'll bite cos i love biting.

 

We lost once with that formation, and that was against Chelsea with Smith in the side. It's still some of the best football i've seen us play. We won four and drew a couple iirc.

[TheGuv]

Keegan and his 4-3-3 mentioned again? We finished 12th that season.

 

 

The difference in squad is unbelievable. Even last seaosn Pardew had a better squad, had more games, took over with the club higher in the table than Keegan did and managed to finish 12th...

 

I'm not sure you've even read the whole post, yet you jump to your own wonderful conclusions all the time.

 

You really are the most obnoxious poster on this forum. You're 3 awards really were deserved. Bravo

[Jayson]

Hawk most of that post is just you saying you relate Pardew with Roeder, we could obviously be doing better & that Keegan went for more flair with his lineup.

 

You havent actually offered many examples of how we could have improved on this season. Beyond doubting Cabayes form because hes infront of good players for France, when hes there because of his form in France & International football is not the same as someones first season in the Prem.

 

Keegan played a more attacking system yeah & you know doing that currently would result in better results for us how? FWIW Keegan said just yesterday that Pardew was having a great season & was getting the best out of his players.

[Guest BooBoo]

Keegan and his 4-3-3 mentioned again? We finished 12th that season.

 

What teams did we beat with the much trumpeted formation? Fulham, Spurs, mackems and Reading. Good run of form yes but it's ludicrously over hyped with the benefit of the rosiest tinted glasses.

[Hughesy]

Hawk most of that post is just you saying you relate Pardew with Roeder, we could obviously be doing better & that Keegan went for more flair with his lineup.

 

You havent actually offered many examples of how we could have improved on this season. Beyond doubting Cabayes form because hes infront of good players for France, when hes there because of his form in France & International football is not the same as someones first season in the Prem.

 

Keegan played a more attacking system yeah & you know doing that currently would result in better results for us how? FWIW Keegan said just yesterday that Pardew was having a great season & was getting the best out of his players.

 

That's one of the key points.  People keep assuming that by playing a more defensive system Pardew has somehow cost us points.  How do we not know that Pardew's caution has not won points during this season?

[Ronaldo]

Keegan and his 4-3-3 mentioned again? We finished 12th that season.

 

What teams did we beat with the much trumpeted formation? Fulham, Spurs, mackems and Reading. Good run of form yes but it's ludicrously over hyped with the benefit of the rosiest tinted glasses.

 

Exactly. We beat 3 poor teams at home and an average one (Spurs finished 11th, I think) away.

[Ronaldo]

Keegan and his 4-3-3 mentioned again? We finished 12th that season.

 

 

The difference in squad is unbelievable. Even last seaosn Pardew had a better squad, had more games, took over with the club higher in the table than Keegan did and managed to finish 12th...

 

Hang on. Pardew took over when we were 12th; where were we when Keegan took over?

[cp40]

Keegan and his 4-3-3 mentioned again? We finished 12th that season.

 

 

The difference in squad is unbelievable. Even last seaosn Pardew had a better squad, had more games, took over with the club higher in the table than Keegan did and managed to finish 12th...

 

Hang on. Pardew took over when we were 12th; where were we when Keegan took over?

 

 

one place above relegation to the thrid division IIrc. in straight seasons he took us to 3rd in the prem. canny going that like.

[Ronaldo]

Relevant.