eliassenfredrik Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I don't think he instructed us to go long in the second half, it's just what happens sometimes when you're pushed back and Williamson, Simpson and Krul are s*** scared of playing football. Would have liked to seen us give more a go in the second half, but you risk getting caught out like we did, so it's a fine balance. Totally agree. Maybe that's always been Allardyce's problem, he wants to pass it but he's always just had s*** footballing centre halves. You think Pardew wants Simpson and Williamson in his team? Of course he doesn't. Well he wants Raylor and Obertan in his team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Argh, this debate is a perfect circle. Rest assured, if he'd been picking Raylor instead of Simpson for any length of time he would be getting much more stick than he is now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I don't think he instructed us to go long in the second half, it's just what happens sometimes when you're pushed back and Williamson, Simpson and Krul are shit scared of playing football. Would have liked to seen us give more a go in the second half, but you risk getting caught out like we did, so it's a fine balance. Totally agree. Maybe that's always been Allardyce's problem, he wants to pass it but he's always just had shit footballing centre halves. Good one. +1point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I don't think he instructed us to go long in the second half, it's just what happens sometimes when you're pushed back and Williamson, Simpson and Krul are shit scared of playing football. Would have liked to seen us give more a go in the second half, but you risk getting caught out like we did, so it's a fine balance. Totally agree. Maybe that's always been Allardyce's problem, he wants to pass it but he's always just had shit footballing centre halves. Honestly, we could have snatched a point today with these tactics but we really didn't deserve to. We started off well but got worse and worse after each substitution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Argh, this debate is a perfect circle. Rest assured, if he'd been picking Raylor instead of Simpson for any length of time he would be getting much more stick than he is now. http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4061/4669812732_5407c2534c_z.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Argh, this debate is a perfect circle. Rest assured, if he'd been picking Raylor instead of Simpson for any length of time he would be getting much more stick than he is now. He's been picking Taylor ahead of Ben Arfa ffs, never mind Danny Simpson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Argh, this debate is a perfect circle. Rest assured, if he'd been picking Raylor instead of Simpson for any length of time he would be getting much more stick than he is now. He's been picking Taylor ahead of Ben Arfa ffs, never mind Danny Simpson. Well that's a totally different debate, I've always said that was a mistake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 One thing pretty noticeable is not a lot of work goes into attacking 'plays' and working decent positions with the ball, because we look very hit and miss going forward. The movement in midfield is especially abysmal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 One thing pretty noticeable is not a lot of work goes into attacking 'plays' and working decent positions with the ball, because we look very hit and miss going forward. The movement in midfield is especially abysmal. As soon someone gets the ball in the final 3rd they are usually left very isolated as everyone else stops running. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Just a point I want to make to Ian W. I always respect the fact you give people a good crack at the whip and look at it in a positive fashion but I do think you give Pardew too much credit. You mentioned in a post earlier that potentially the way Pardew has treated HBA could be seen as good management. I'm sorry but that's just wrong in my eyes, he was always going to perform to this level, he just needed games. Secondly, in regards to the hoof ball inability of our players, Krul doesn't have to go long on his goal kicks all the time. This is the clearest indication that Pardew is telling the team to lob it up the pitch. Krul has all the time in the world and yet chooses to do that when he could easily pick out a full back or other option. I'd say 8/9 times out of ten he goes long, this has to be under instruction. As for Simpson and Williamson, well yes, they are awful ball players but even so, they are quite obviously told to default long ball if under any pressure Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Imo Pardew certainly tells Krul/defenders to go long. It is a clear tactic to try and hit Ba. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Here is a question! How many points more than last season does it take to show that Pardew has done a better job than last season considering most will agree he's got a better team than last season??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Just a point I want to make to Ian W. I always respect the fact you give people a good crack at the whip and look at it in a positive fashion but I do think you give Pardew too much credit. You mentioned in a post earlier that potentially the way Pardew has treated HBA could be seen as good management. I'm sorry but that's just wrong in my eyes, he was always going to perform to this level, he just needed games. Secondly, in regards to the hoof ball inability of our players, Krul doesn't have to go long on his goal kicks all the time. This is the clearest indication that Pardew is telling the team to lob it up the pitch. Krul has all the time in the world and yet chooses to do that when he could easily pick out a full back or other option. I'd say 8/9 times out of ten he goes long, this has to be under instruction. As for Simpson and Williamson, well yes, they are awful ball players but even so, they are quite obviously told to default long ball if under any pressure About HBA, I was only making a hypothetical point that if he keeps up his current form for the rest of the season then you could argue that he's been introduced at the right time. If you look at my past posts I've been desperate for him to start the whole season. On the second one, I just don't believe Pardew is telling players to hoof the ball so much. Maybe his "be hard to beat" approach is rubbing off in that way, and maybe he's failing to correct it, those are fair criticisms either way. I just think the fear and lack of ability in some of our players is the main factor. All Pardew's problems to address obviously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliassenfredrik Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Just a point I want to make to Ian W. I always respect the fact you give people a good crack at the whip and look at it in a positive fashion but I do think you give Pardew too much credit. You mentioned in a post earlier that potentially the way Pardew has treated HBA could be seen as good management. I'm sorry but that's just wrong in my eyes, he was always going to perform to this level, he just needed games. Secondly, in regards to the hoof ball inability of our players, Krul doesn't have to go long on his goal kicks all the time. This is the clearest indication that Pardew is telling the team to lob it up the pitch. Krul has all the time in the world and yet chooses to do that when he could easily pick out a full back or other option. I'd say 8/9 times out of ten he goes long, this has to be under instruction. As for Simpson and Williamson, well yes, they are awful ball players but even so, they are quite obviously told to default long ball if under any pressure Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Just a point I want to make to Ian W. I always respect the fact you give people a good crack at the whip and look at it in a positive fashion but I do think you give Pardew too much credit. You mentioned in a post earlier that potentially the way Pardew has treated HBA could be seen as good management. I'm sorry but that's just wrong in my eyes, he was always going to perform to this level, he just needed games. Secondly, in regards to the hoof ball inability of our players, Krul doesn't have to go long on his goal kicks all the time. This is the clearest indication that Pardew is telling the team to lob it up the pitch. Krul has all the time in the world and yet chooses to do that when he could easily pick out a full back or other option. I'd say 8/9 times out of ten he goes long, this has to be under instruction. As for Simpson and Williamson, well yes, they are awful ball players but even so, they are quite obviously told to default long ball if under any pressure Quite often Krul does have to go long as the full backs don't pull out wide to receive the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Yeah, I knew you'd always backed HBA to start but even if he ends the season with a string of top performances my opinion will always remain that he should have had an extra seven-eight starts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Just a point I want to make to Ian W. I always respect the fact you give people a good crack at the whip and look at it in a positive fashion but I do think you give Pardew too much credit. You mentioned in a post earlier that potentially the way Pardew has treated HBA could be seen as good management. I'm sorry but that's just wrong in my eyes, he was always going to perform to this level, he just needed games. Secondly, in regards to the hoof ball inability of our players, Krul doesn't have to go long on his goal kicks all the time. This is the clearest indication that Pardew is telling the team to lob it up the pitch. Krul has all the time in the world and yet chooses to do that when he could easily pick out a full back or other option. I'd say 8/9 times out of ten he goes long, this has to be under instruction. As for Simpson and Williamson, well yes, they are awful ball players but even so, they are quite obviously told to default long ball if under any pressure Quite often Krul does have to go long as the full backs don't pull out wide to receive the ball. I've seen this when he collects corners he is very reluctant to throw it early and then just waits for the big hoof forward. Could this him fearing what he did against Man City (h) last season..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliassenfredrik Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Just a point I want to make to Ian W. I always respect the fact you give people a good crack at the whip and look at it in a positive fashion but I do think you give Pardew too much credit. You mentioned in a post earlier that potentially the way Pardew has treated HBA could be seen as good management. I'm sorry but that's just wrong in my eyes, he was always going to perform to this level, he just needed games. Secondly, in regards to the hoof ball inability of our players, Krul doesn't have to go long on his goal kicks all the time. This is the clearest indication that Pardew is telling the team to lob it up the pitch. Krul has all the time in the world and yet chooses to do that when he could easily pick out a full back or other option. I'd say 8/9 times out of ten he goes long, this has to be under instruction. As for Simpson and Williamson, well yes, they are awful ball players but even so, they are quite obviously told to default long ball if under any pressure Quite often Krul does have to go long as the full backs don't pull out wide to receive the ball. That would probably have something to do with the instructions too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Just a point I want to make to Ian W. I always respect the fact you give people a good crack at the whip and look at it in a positive fashion but I do think you give Pardew too much credit. You mentioned in a post earlier that potentially the way Pardew has treated HBA could be seen as good management. I'm sorry but that's just wrong in my eyes, he was always going to perform to this level, he just needed games. Secondly, in regards to the hoof ball inability of our players, Krul doesn't have to go long on his goal kicks all the time. This is the clearest indication that Pardew is telling the team to lob it up the pitch. Krul has all the time in the world and yet chooses to do that when he could easily pick out a full back or other option. I'd say 8/9 times out of ten he goes long, this has to be under instruction. As for Simpson and Williamson, well yes, they are awful ball players but even so, they are quite obviously told to default long ball if under any pressure Quite often Krul does have to go long as the full backs don't pull out wide to receive the ball. Then that's surely the clearest indication that its tactical Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Just a point I want to make to Ian W. I always respect the fact you give people a good crack at the whip and look at it in a positive fashion but I do think you give Pardew too much credit. You mentioned in a post earlier that potentially the way Pardew has treated HBA could be seen as good management. I'm sorry but that's just wrong in my eyes, he was always going to perform to this level, he just needed games. Secondly, in regards to the hoof ball inability of our players, Krul doesn't have to go long on his goal kicks all the time. This is the clearest indication that Pardew is telling the team to lob it up the pitch. Krul has all the time in the world and yet chooses to do that when he could easily pick out a full back or other option. I'd say 8/9 times out of ten he goes long, this has to be under instruction. As for Simpson and Williamson, well yes, they are awful ball players but even so, they are quite obviously told to default long ball if under any pressure Quite often Krul does have to go long as the full backs don't pull out wide to receive the ball. and if they did there'd be no movement in front of them from the midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Yeah, I knew you'd always backed HBA to start but even if he ends the season with a string of top performances my opinion will always remain that he should have had an extra seven-eight starts That's fine, you might be right, there's no way to tell really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Just a point I want to make to Ian W. I always respect the fact you give people a good crack at the whip and look at it in a positive fashion but I do think you give Pardew too much credit. You mentioned in a post earlier that potentially the way Pardew has treated HBA could be seen as good management. I'm sorry but that's just wrong in my eyes, he was always going to perform to this level, he just needed games. Secondly, in regards to the hoof ball inability of our players, Krul doesn't have to go long on his goal kicks all the time. This is the clearest indication that Pardew is telling the team to lob it up the pitch. Krul has all the time in the world and yet chooses to do that when he could easily pick out a full back or other option. I'd say 8/9 times out of ten he goes long, this has to be under instruction. As for Simpson and Williamson, well yes, they are awful ball players but even so, they are quite obviously told to default long ball if under any pressure Quite often Krul does have to go long as the full backs don't pull out wide to receive the ball. Then that's surely the clearest indication that its tactical Could well be. I am still not convinced it is tactical, mainly because we simply didn't play like that earlier in the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 i think pardews problem with ben arfa is he doesn't trust bhim to do the defensive work out wide but also knows we haven't the strength in the middle to go to a 3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 The hoofball is part of the fast, front-foot football thing, putting defenders under constant physical pressure and being relentless with it, hoping for breaks. It's not really difficult to ask your keeper to go with a shorter option more often than not, Pards hasn't changed that, it's clearly tactical. While I still think he was too negative tonight, he has some justification, a draw would have been a very good result. Contrary to what people say however, we do have a first team that are very capable of playing good football and going toe-to-toe with big teams, considering 8 of tonight's 11 starters had long term roles in previous teams that played much better football than we currently do. We played in the Champions League with Aaron Hughes (sometimes Andy Griffin) and Andy O'Brien and still produced some bloody good stuff. There's no excuse for us right now, you can carry one or two poor footballers in defence, when your other 8 have genuine and proven footballing talent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Aaron Hughes was a bloody good player to be honest.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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