Ambition

[Guest johnson293]

I think its wrong to say his only ambition is to stay up, i.e. to finish 17th every year, as there is more money with every league placing, the higher you finish, and he is motivated by money.

 

However, I dont think he's prepared to invest to push on the next level - i.e. Europe - I think his target would mid table - top ten finishes, and anything above is a bonus. However, I'd be very happy to be proved wrong on that this summer.... providing we stay up!

 

Therefore, I voted 5 on the ambition-ometer.

[TRon]

There's no evidence that Ashley is buying players to sell on at a profit, I wish people would stop posting that. It's totally made up.

 

Aye, we took the money for Carroll, but the fee was insane and the lad wanted to play hard-ball over a new contract. Hence Ashley cashed in and booted him out.

 

Obviously we're now running on a strict financial regime, but that's the reality of the club's situation (thanks partly to Shepherd's mad spending and lending).

 

Whether or not spending within your means is "lack of ambition" I don't know... but I do know we couldn't continue how we were.

 

I think all that will be answered this summer. I am expecting there will be a few clubs sniffing round Enrique, Barton and Tiote. These guys will stay IMO if we look like we are going to buy players to make us a force next season. If we don't spend seriously the we'll probably see them leave and that will answer the questions about the clubs ambition.

[Guest Brazilianbob]

Does the Ben Arfa transfer not count for much then?

 

His transfer and the signings of Colo & Jonas have been the only slithers of ambition.

 

Somewhere between 9 &10.

 

Yes they were ambitions signings but that was before the fans turned on him after the KK debacle.  Since then any signings have had to be within budget, hence the highest outlay being on Ben Arfa and Tiote, but I have no doubt he simply sees these as players who can be sold on at a vast profit ala Carroll rather than building a side to challenge for europe.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

There's no evidence that Ashley is buying players to sell on at a profit, I wish people would stop posting that. It's totally made up.

 

Aye, we took the money for Carroll, but the fee was insane and the lad wanted to play hard-ball over a new contract. Hence Ashley cashed in and booted him out.

 

Obviously we're now running on a strict financial regime, but that's the reality of the club's situation (thanks partly to Shepherd's mad spending and lending).

 

Whether or not spending within your means is "lack of ambition" I don't know... but I do know we couldn't continue how we were.

 

I think all that will be answered this summer. I am expecting there will be a few clubs sniffing round Enrique, Barton and Tiote. These guys will stay IMO if we look like we are going to buy players to make us a force next season. If we don't spend seriously the we'll probably see them leave and that will answer the questions about the clubs ambition.

 

Yeah I agree. All I would say is that there probably have been clubs sniffing around them already, maybe especially after our relegation.

 

We kept the nucleus of the team together then, only got rid of the total wasters (we still have a few obviously).

 

I just don't get the feeling that Ashley's plan is based on selling players, it's more based on controlling wages and contracts and spending less on transfer fees. If we do that sensibly there's no need to sell unless people are talking silly money.

 

It's a slower way to progress, and Ashley will obviously set us back occasionally with shite decisions, but it's the only option we've got at the moment.

[Guest TheSummerOf69]

There's no evidence that Ashley is buying players to sell on at a profit, I wish people would stop posting that. It's totally made up.

 

Aye, we took the money for Carroll, but the fee was insane and the lad wanted to play hard-ball over a new contract. Hence Ashley cashed in and booted him out.

 

Obviously we're now running on a strict financial regime, but that's the reality of the club's situation (thanks partly to Shepherd's mad spending and lending).

 

Whether or not spending within your means is "lack of ambition" I don't know... but I do know we couldn't continue how we were.

 

I agree that we are paying for the Shepherd years still and that Ashley is a lot of money down because of his involvement in the Toon (some of that loss is his doing mind - no due diligence, relegation, alienated customers etc)...

 

But it still seems pretty obvious to me (from selling Milner and Carroll and from not getting enough players to last the season every single transfer window) that we are selling players for profit, that no-one's off limits, and that our main targets are financial rather than football ones

[UV]

There's no evidence that Ashley is buying players to sell on at a profit, I wish people would stop posting that. It's totally made up.

 

Aye, we took the money for Carroll, but the fee was insane and the lad wanted to play hard-ball over a new contract. Hence Ashley cashed in and booted him out.

 

Obviously we're now running on a strict financial regime, but that's the reality of the club's situation (thanks partly to Shepherd's mad spending and lending).

Whether or not spending within your means is "lack of ambition" I don't know... but I do know we couldn't continue how we were.

 

I'd like you to explain how in any way whatsoever the running of the club today is affected by the previous owners (except for the fact that thanks to them investing in the team and the ground we have a larger supporter base and attendance potential than most other teams in the league).

 

It was a somewhat legitimate argument 2 or 3 years ago, but now surely there can be no question that Ashley has to take credit or blame if we rise or fall from where we are as a club now.

 

Edit: When we avoided relegation to the 3rd division, then won the 2nd division title, then came 3rd in the Premier League and people were praising SJH were you saying "hang on a sec, McKeag deserves some of the credit too"?

[UV]

There's no evidence that Ashley is buying players to sell on at a profit, I wish people would stop posting that. It's totally made up.

 

Aye, we took the money for Carroll, but the fee was insane and the lad wanted to play hard-ball over a new contract. Hence Ashley cashed in and booted him out.

 

Obviously we're now running on a strict financial regime, but that's the reality of the club's situation (thanks partly to Shepherd's mad spending and lending).

 

Whether or not spending within your means is "lack of ambition" I don't know... but I do know we couldn't continue how we were.

 

It's based on the fact that we've sold Milner, N'Zogbia, Bassong and now Carroll who were all arguably our best young players at the time they were sold*. However who have we hung onto that we had a serious offer for?

 

* You could argue that Enrique was our best younger player when N'Zogbia & Bassong were sold, but he was generally seen from the outside as a player who was part of a very poor defence, whose distribution and passing was very hit and miss (and that's being kind, there were games it was shocking).

[Hanshithispantz]

Selling Carroll for 35 million does not show a lack of ambition

 

Not replacing him however does, and although someone shold have been brought for atlest temporary cover we'll have to wait until the summer to truly judge

[Carlito]

Selling Carroll for 35 million does not show a lack of ambition

 

Not replacing him however does, and although someone shold have been brought for atlest temporary cover we'll have to wait until the summer to truly judge

 

I'd be surprised if we even spent £10m on a replacement striker in the summer tbh.

[Hanshithispantz]

So would I tbf, still it's a bit knee-jerk to sujest we are unambitious for selling a player with 6 months real premiership experience behind him for the british record transfer fee

[AyeDubbleYoo]

There's no evidence that Ashley is buying players to sell on at a profit, I wish people would stop posting that. It's totally made up.

 

Aye, we took the money for Carroll, but the fee was insane and the lad wanted to play hard-ball over a new contract. Hence Ashley cashed in and booted him out.

 

Obviously we're now running on a strict financial regime, but that's the reality of the club's situation (thanks partly to Shepherd's mad spending and lending).

Whether or not spending within your means is "lack of ambition" I don't know... but I do know we couldn't continue how we were.

 

I'd like you to explain how in any way whatsoever the running of the club today is affected by the previous owners (except for the fact that thanks to them investing in the team and the ground we have a larger supporter base and attendance potential than most other teams in the league).

 

It was a somewhat legitimate argument 2 or 3 years ago, but now surely there can be no question that Ashley has to take credit or blame if we rise or fall from where we are as a club now.

 

Edit: When we avoided relegation to the 3rd division, then won the 2nd division title, then came 3rd in the Premier League and people were praising SJH were you saying "hang on a sec, McKeag deserves some of the credit too"?

 

If a club has been overspending for a long period, and credit is no longer easily available, it has to make pretty significant cuts to its costs (or increases in its income) in order to survive. 2 or 3 years is no time at all to put our financial issues right.

 

I'm not saying Ashley isn't to blame for his mistakes, but they've got to be understood in the proper context.

[UV]

Is it really fair to judge after only 9 transfer windows though? Don't we need to give him 10 or 20 years before we can really tell what his plan is?

 

Apart from the £35m that we got from a player who came from a non-existant youth academy (we didn't have a youth policy until Ashley put his plans in place you know) he's still battling to overcome Hall and Shepherd's legacy of a team with a massive supporter base and revenues constantly in the top 15 in the world.

[TRon]

I think what UV is hinting at, sarcastically as usual, is that Hall and Shepherd did build the profile of the club to a stage where it became much easier to merchandise and attract revenue. In that regard they showed ambition. While Shepherd overdid it and some cost cutting was necessary when Ashley came in, he hasn't for me looked to build our image and cash in, he's concentrated solely on running us with a corner shop mentality. That could all change this summer with £35m to spend but I won't hold my breath.

[UV]

There's no evidence that Ashley is buying players to sell on at a profit, I wish people would stop posting that. It's totally made up.

 

Aye, we took the money for Carroll, but the fee was insane and the lad wanted to play hard-ball over a new contract. Hence Ashley cashed in and booted him out.

 

Obviously we're now running on a strict financial regime, but that's the reality of the club's situation (thanks partly to Shepherd's mad spending and lending).

Whether or not spending within your means is "lack of ambition" I don't know... but I do know we couldn't continue how we were.

 

I'd like you to explain how in any way whatsoever the running of the club today is affected by the previous owners (except for the fact that thanks to them investing in the team and the ground we have a larger supporter base and attendance potential than most other teams in the league).

 

It was a somewhat legitimate argument 2 or 3 years ago, but now surely there can be no question that Ashley has to take credit or blame if we rise or fall from where we are as a club now.

 

Edit: When we avoided relegation to the 3rd division, then won the 2nd division title, then came 3rd in the Premier League and people were praising SJH were you saying "hang on a sec, McKeag deserves some of the credit too"?

 

If a club has been overspending for a long period, and credit is no longer easily available, it has to make pretty significant cuts to its costs (or increases in its income) in order to survive. 2 or 3 years is no time at all to put our financial issues right.

 

I'm not saying Ashley isn't to blame for his mistakes, but they've got to be understood in the proper context.

 

No, I'm not having that at all.

 

The availability of credit has nothing to do with it. From the start Ashley paid off all the debts he could voluntarily, not just the ones he had to, and we pay for players up front when most teams would be accepting of paying in instalments as that is how every other top club operates, even those with rich sugar daddy owners like Man City.

 

The cuts have been made. We have a thin squad, and the wage bill is now easily manageable within our PL revenue. We are not struggling to survive, I am certain we would easily have made a cash profit this year without the Carroll sale, and if you think otherwise I'd like to see your figures as to why.

 

ALL of the club's spending is now down to Ashley. There isn't a single player or senior employee who is not now on a contract signed off by Ashley.

[Guest Brazilianbob]

Puts it all into perspective when you look at the players sold over the last 3 or 4 years, namely Bassong, Milner, N'Zogbia and now Carroll.  These are players that could and should be running out onto the pitch tomorrow wearing black and white stripes!

 

It takes me back to the last time we were a selling club when the likes of Terry McDermott, Alan Kennedy, Malcolm MacDonald, Peter Beardsly, Chris Waddle and Paul Gascoigne were all sold because the fees were too high to refuse.  All went on to have illustrious carreers in the England shirt.  Striking similarities to the players sold under the Ashley regime.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I don't have the time or the energy to go over the club's accounts in detail.

 

The fact is that Ashley hasn't taken anything out of the club, he's continuously put money in to support our losses.

[Punk77]

 

The fact is that Ashley hasn't taken anything out of the club, he's continuously put money in to support our losses.

 

This interview with Luque is a very good example of how disastrously Fat Fred managed the club. The worst thing is that he continued to put money in his own pocket, despite the fact that it went with record losses. Please notice the writing in bold.

 

ALBERT LUQUE last night gave a damning insight into the cash-crazy reign of Freddy Shepherd which nearly destroyed Newcastle.

 

New chairman Chris Mort has already blasted Shepherd for leaving the Toon in a state of financial ruin before Mike Ashley’s millions rescued the club.

 

Mort, who took over in July, insisted last week the club were “close to folding like a pack of cards” before reclusive billionaire Ashley took centre stage.

 

And now super-flop Luque has shown just why.

 

The Spanish striker revealed his pure astonishment after plucking a monumental wage demand out of thin air — and hearing Shepherd say ‘Yes’ with no hesitation.

 

Luque, who pocketed around £85,000 a week, admits he just joined for the money in 2005 and left for Ajax in the summer simply appalled at the way Shepherd ran Newcastle.

 

He said: “No one could understand why I joined Newcastle but I got an offer I couldn’t refuse.

 

“I had a meeting with the chairman Freddy Shepherd and he asked me what I wanted to earn.

 

“So I said an absurd, completely ridiculous amount and he immediately said it was OK.

 

“The next day he spoke with Augusto Lendoiro, the chairman of Deportivo La Coruna, and in that meeting it was exactly the same.

 

“He asked what the price was and Lendoiro said 15million euro and the deal was done.

 

“In both cases, Shepherd didn’t even negotiate.

 

“Twice, he said ‘Yes’ and in 24 hours my whole life changed dramatically.

 

“It was bizarre. I was going to earn a gigantic amount of money at a club I had never followed in a city I didn’t know.

 

“From all the players at Newcastle, I had never heard of them — and I hardly spoke any English.”

 

The Spain international endured a nightmare spell on Tyneside after being signed by former Magpies chief Graeme Souness for a whopping £9.5m two years ago.

 

He left for Holland before the transfer window slammed shut for around £1.5m, joining the likes of Jean-Alain Boumsong and Marcelino as the biggest wastes of money during Shepherd’s rollercoaster 10-year reign.

 

Luque, 29, made just SIX Premier League starts in TWO years and hated working with former Newcastle manager Glenn Roeder.

 

In his time at St James’ Park, he scored just three goals in all competitions — while earning the best part of £9MILLION.

 

Luque has already hit two for Ajax to help them go top of the Dutch League.

 

He added: “It is a wonder I held out that long. In that period I was often asked about returning to Spanish clubs but being perfectly honest nobody could match my contract.

 

“I earned so much at Newcastle and you don’t let that go so easily.

 

“But this summer I told myself that money wasn’t everything and isn’t important. So I’ve chosen for life and for football and to feel like a player again.

 

“In between, Newcastle have a new chairman and I told him that for me he could keep his money as long as I can go.

 

“For the club it’s good that Shepherd and Roeder are gone.

 

“I still had a contract for three seasons so I’ve lost a tremendous amount of money.

 

“But that doesn’t interest me one bit right now. I was fed up living like a tourist in England. I just left for Amsterdam and didn’t want to stay one day longer in Newcastle. It was an awful time and that’s why I’m glad of the challenge that’s awaiting me.

 

“I am happy now. With my wife we’re living in the middle of Amsterdam and that’s in contrast with a village outside Newcastle.

 

“In the morning when I open the curtains I see people while, in Newcastle, it was only trees.

 

“My father is so proud that I’m now playing for the club where his hero Johan Cruyff became a star. Ajax is a choice for my life.”

 

Joey Barton is another player who has hardly set Newcastle alight — but not through choice.

 

Barton quit Manchester City for Tyneside in the summer but has been out with a broken left foot.

 

The £5.8m midfielder played for Toon’s reserves against City this week — his first game since suffering the injury in July.

 

And he insists he deserves some of the credit for City’s amazing revival under Sven Goran Eriksson.

 

He said: “I hope they appreciate the job I did last season.

 

“Were it not for myself, Micah Richards and Richard Dunne they wouldn’t have had Thaksin Shinawatra, the Premier League and Sven Goran Eriksson. They could easily have gone down last season but for a couple of results.”

 

Eriksson has led City to third in the Premier League, thanks partly to the millions of new owner Shinawatra.

 

But Barton, 25, insists he has no regrets about joining Toon.

 

He said: “Hopefully, we’ll get the kind of investment they got at City and get a similar result.

 

“Newcastle can be as big as they want to be. No disrespect to City but, in Manchester, Manchester United will always be top dog.

 

“As much as City want to believe it, it is not going to be.

 

“The big thing about Newcastle is there is only Newcastle.

 

“Newcastle could be a big side and turn it from a big four into a big five.”

 

No doubt about it, Ashley has made his share of mistakes. But everything was set in motion by Fred. Economically I think NUFC is one of the few clubs that is going in the right direction: Cutting down on wages and focusing on talent. The next step should be to lower the ticket prices. The German League has followed this strategy.: lowering wages, renewing stadiums and lowering wages, which has led to the possibility to reduce the ticket prices. One match ticket may now be available for 8 EUR. The result: highest average attendance in Europe. It's a great concern that the average supporter attending a game at Old Trafford is male and well into his forties.

[UV]

I'm not particularly concerned about the average age or sex of Man U supporters tbh.

 

The above Luque quotes are proven bollocks, at very least in respect to the transfer fee, but if you want to go there:

 

Lombilla also denied there had been a bid from Tottenham, who yesterday banked £20.3m from Liverpool for Robbie Keane.

 

And he insists Coloccini is desperate to join Newcastle, who are prepared to double his Deportivo wages.

 

Lombilla added: “The player is wanted in several places but the English league is what seduces him the most in both senses: economic and sporting.

 

“It was proposed to Fabricio a five-year contract with a salary that’s doubling his current wages. There wasn’t any other offer that was not coming from Newcastle.

 

“I know Ramos personally. I have a good relationship with him and there was great interest but no offers.

 

“The only one exceeding 10m, which I knew that could satisfy the president, was the one of Newcastle and it was also interesting for the player.”

 

The only club in for him and we offered to double his wages. I guess this was Shepherd's fault too? Remind me again, which one of Luque's or Coloccini's wages affects our current finances?

[Punk77]

I'm not particularly concerned about the average age or sex of Man U supporters tbh.

 

The above Luque quotes are proven bollocks, at very least in respect to the transfer fee, but if you want to go there:

 

Lombilla also denied there had been a bid from Tottenham, who yesterday banked £20.3m from Liverpool for Robbie Keane.

 

And he insists Coloccini is desperate to join Newcastle, who are prepared to double his Deportivo wages.

 

Lombilla added: “The player is wanted in several places but the English league is what seduces him the most in both senses: economic and sporting.

 

“It was proposed to Fabricio a five-year contract with a salary that’s doubling his current wages. There wasn’t any other offer that was not coming from Newcastle.

 

“I know Ramos personally. I have a good relationship with him and there was great interest but no offers.

 

“The only one exceeding 10m, which I knew that could satisfy the president, was the one of Newcastle and it was also interesting for the player.”

 

The only club in for him and we offered to double his wages. I guess this was Shepherd's fault too? Remind me again, which one of Luque's or Coloccini's wages affects our current finances?

 

Colo's wages was of course sanctioned by Ashley. But obviously, the man had not much experience in running a football club. My point is that Ashley has turned the ship around, economically. If Colo signs a new contract, he will of course not be given the same luxurious terms. Fat Fred on the other hand, never learned. And he had intimate knowledge about the club's finances. Still he managed on a consistent basis to hire and fire managers (£5 mill buyout on Big Sam alone) and in same style repeatedly paying way too much for mediocre players that were rewarded with insanely good contracts. Ashley took over a club with a debt of £100 mill that had already used sponsor money in advance.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

If we're talking about the financial running of the club alone, there's no argument that Ashley is doing a much better job.

 

The problem is that we're still in the spending bubble that means success in the Premier League is virtually impossible without taking massive financial risks or an owner investing vast amounts without hope of a return - neither of which Ashley is prepared to do.

[Carlito]

If we're talking about the financial running of the club alone, there's no argument that Ashley is doing a much better job.

 

The problem is that we're still in the spending bubble that means success in the Premier League is virtually impossible without taking massive financial risks or an owner investing vast amounts without hope of a return - neither of which Ashley is prepared to do.

 

Fun times, eh.

[Punk77]

If we're talking about the financial running of the club alone, there's no argument that Ashley is doing a much better job.

 

The problem is that we're still in the spending bubble that means success in the Premier League is virtually impossible without taking massive financial risks or an owner investing vast amounts without hope of a return - neither of which Ashley is prepared to do.

 

Exactly! And it is a huge problem that the football is heading in that direction imo.  When you have all the money in the world, like City, the feeling of accomplishment must disappear significantly when they win a silverware. The success is not achieved through hard work, sensible strategies and supporter relations but through using huge amounts of money, and nothing else. In the same way, I feel such a pride when Tiote is having one of his usual displays, because we only bought him for £3.5 and his success can partly be attributed to the club's scouting. If we on the other hand had purchased him for £20 mill, Tiote's current display is seen only as mandatory for a player with such a price tag.

[Wullie]

If we're talking about the financial running of the club alone, there's no argument that Ashley is doing a much better job.

 

The problem is that we're still in the spending bubble that means success in the Premier League is virtually impossible without taking massive financial risks or an owner investing vast amounts without hope of a return - neither of which Ashley is prepared to do.

 

Depends on your definition of success but I don't think that's true at all. I think the club would like you to think it though.

[Guest neesy111]

Fact is, I can't wait for the whole bubble to burst.  It will happen as the fans will simply walk away from football as clubs try and try to extract even more money from them.  Season ticket renewal time for a number of PL clubs should make interesting read by next August as with disposable income getting squeezed and squeezed quite a few fans may just jack it all in.

[Punk77]

Fact is, I can't wait for the whole bubble to burst.  It will happen as the fans will simply walk away from football as clubs try and try to extract even more money from them.  Season ticket renewal time for a number of PL clubs should make interesting read by next August as with disposable income getting squeezed and squeezed quite a few fans may just jack it all in.

 

Totally agree. No way todays spending can be upheld without having serious consequences. And when the bubble burst, NUFC will be one of the few clubs with a sound economical base, and then we will shine..But until then, we must have patience.