Ambition

[Ikon]

put the money from the Carroll transfer on Hulk and Gervinho and im happy, use the "summer kitty" for some backup players.

 

 

 

 

[quayside]

If we're talking about the financial running of the club alone, there's no argument that Ashley is doing a much better job.

 

The problem is that we're still in the spending bubble that means success in the Premier League is virtually impossible without taking massive financial risks or an owner investing vast amounts without hope of a return - neither of which Ashley is prepared to do.

 

Depends on your definition of success but I don't think that's true at all. I think the club would like you to think it though.

 

Well yeah, by success I was thinking European qualification and then pushing up into the top 4.

 

If by success you mean getting promoted and potentially finishing in the top half, then pushing on from there... we're already doing that.

 

Do you think Spurs are taking massive financial risks? Or even the mackems, who will probably still either bottle it or simply be caught by Liverpool, but are still very much in contention for Europe? Do you think Arsenal are taking massive financial risks?

 

How would you have gone about running the club? Serious question.

 

Thats a question to anyone bytheway.

 

 

Don't sell the best players?

 

Agenda aside id genuinely be interested in someones opinion as to what exactly they'd do differently. In terms of transfers I think we;ve been close to spot on in recent years. Even Spurs had to sell the likes of berba and carrick before they got estabilished.

 

If the money is spent wisely then we're on the right way in my opinioon. Obviosuly the biggest if going.

 

Aye, our transfers have been so spot on, we ended up going down. Jesus, man.

 

We went down due to the utter managerial shambles post Keegan. The squad, although it contained plenty of over paid under performers, was still good enough to be in the Premiership.

 

We'd have stayed up if we'd not sold Given, N'Zogbia and/or Milner.

 

We'd have also stayed up if between them, Owen, Viduka, Nolan, Martins, etc. had managed one more goal between them which really shouldn't have been too much to ask?

 

That's the second totally irrelevant reply you've made Nut.

 

They didn't, so obviously it was too much to ask. If you go down, you go down. They don't let you off because it was a close shave.

 

What was irrelevant about the first reply? You said we went down due to bad transfers, all I'm saying is that since we've came back we've made some very good ones.

 

You're including Stephen Ireland on loan?

 

We've just sold our most important player, you might have missed that. I think that tips the balance.

 

So we'll see in the summer if they've returned to form (Jan 2009), or whether the signings his summer will follow what's happened more recently.

 

Well the manager who made the good ones is now gone, so what's your money on?

 

The scout who found them is still here though.

 

Nah I'm not having that like. Just because it's Chris Hughton, he doesn't get credit for his signings?

 

Who finds Man Utd's players then? Or Arsenal's? Not them two clowns in charge, I bet.

 

That is unfair and ridiculous.

 

Graham Carr wasn't even at the club when Keegan sent Hughton over to holland to watch Tiote. 

 

I'll take your word for it that Tiote was first scouted then. So Tiote was a Keegan/Hughton spot.

 

And if Best and Perch don't work out they have to be down to Hughton of course.

 

Absolutely. Nobody ever claimed otherwise, although Best was signed as an emergency resort to help get us out of the CCC (which we didn't ultimately need when Carroll stepped his game up), and it is slightly unfair to judge him as a Premier League player, especially one who we're now depending on to keep us up. Similar to Routledge really who may have failed in the top flight but I'd argue was an excellent signing.

 

IMO a manager should be judged on his results, not his transfers. If a manager signs 100 s***/average players and 10 good ones and wins the league, then he's done his job.

 

Well yes, unless of course the club still goes into administration because of the unfeasible wage bill of the 100 s***/average players that the manager has gambled on 

[quayside]

If we're talking about the financial running of the club alone, there's no argument that Ashley is doing a much better job.

 

The problem is that we're still in the spending bubble that means success in the Premier League is virtually impossible without taking massive financial risks or an owner investing vast amounts without hope of a return - neither of which Ashley is prepared to do.

 

Depends on your definition of success but I don't think that's true at all. I think the club would like you to think it though.

 

Well yeah, by success I was thinking European qualification and then pushing up into the top 4.

 

If by success you mean getting promoted and potentially finishing in the top half, then pushing on from there... we're already doing that.

 

Do you think Spurs are taking massive financial risks? Or even the mackems, who will probably still either bottle it or simply be caught by Liverpool, but are still very much in contention for Europe? Do you think Arsenal are taking massive financial risks?

 

How would you have gone about running the club? Serious question.

 

Thats a question to anyone bytheway.

 

 

Don't sell the best players?

 

Agenda aside id genuinely be interested in someones opinion as to what exactly they'd do differently. In terms of transfers I think we;ve been close to spot on in recent years. Even Spurs had to sell the likes of berba and carrick before they got estabilished.

 

If the money is spent wisely then we're on the right way in my opinioon. Obviosuly the biggest if going.

 

Aye, our transfers have been so spot on, we ended up going down. Jesus, man.

 

We went down due to the utter managerial shambles post Keegan. The squad, although it contained plenty of over paid under performers, was still good enough to be in the Premiership.

 

We'd have stayed up if we'd not sold Given, N'Zogbia and/or Milner.

 

We'd have also stayed up if between them, Owen, Viduka, Nolan, Martins, etc. had managed one more goal between them which really shouldn't have been too much to ask?

 

That's the second totally irrelevant reply you've made Nut.

 

They didn't, so obviously it was too much to ask. If you go down, you go down. They don't let you off because it was a close shave.

 

What was irrelevant about the first reply? You said we went down due to bad transfers, all I'm saying is that since we've came back we've made some very good ones.

 

You're including Stephen Ireland on loan?

 

We've just sold our most important player, you might have missed that. I think that tips the balance.

 

So we'll see in the summer if they've returned to form (Jan 2009), or whether the signings his summer will follow what's happened more recently.

 

Well the manager who made the good ones is now gone, so what's your money on?

 

The scout who found them is still here though.

 

Nah I'm not having that like. Just because it's Chris Hughton, he doesn't get credit for his signings?

 

Who finds Man Utd's players then? Or Arsenal's? Not them two clowns in charge, I bet.

 

That is unfair and ridiculous.

 

Graham Carr wasn't even at the club when Keegan sent Hughton over to holland to watch Tiote. 

 

I'll take your word for it that Tiote was first scouted then. So Tiote was a Keegan/Hughton spot.

 

And if Best and Perch don't work out they have to be down to Hughton of course.

 

 

 

who cares who "spotted" him? scouts don't sign players (or at least they shouldn't but we know what happened with that policy) managers do. Scouts will have specifically watched and have files on hundreds of players, and followed up on a few that they've identified with a manager, but the scout isn't going to be sanctioning bids, never mind coaching players, motivating them, fitting them into a system or getting the best or worst out of them in games.

 

even in a case like n'zogbia where charlie woods had him brought to his attention by a contact, it still took a trial with us for SBR to make a move, and we have plenty of players coming here on trail.

 

I wouldn't normally be arsed who spotted a player. I was simply responding to a post that was implying we would have a problem finding good players now Hughton has gone.

[Optimistic Nut]

Before the window, we started with Enrique, Coloccini, Barton, Ben Arfa, Tiote & Carroll who I reckon could make the basis of a top 6-8 side. We've came out of it without Carroll but potentially Ireland if we can sort him out, but no major loss if we can't. That still gives us 5 players, this summer is massive for our future. We could reinvest even just a big percentage of the £35m on a few quality players of their standard, and added to our mid-table players (Harper, Nolan, Williamson, Jonas, etc) I still think we could still have a bright future.

 

 

[TRon]

Before the window, we started with Enrique, Coloccini, Barton, Ben Arfa, Tiote & Carroll who I reckon could make the basis of a top 6-8 side. We've came out of it without Carroll but potentially Ireland if we can sort him out, but no major loss if we can't. That still gives us 5 players, this summer is massive for our future. We could reinvest even just a big percentage of the £35m on a few quality players of their standard, and added to our mid-table players (Harper, Nolan, Williamson, Jonas, etc) I still think we could still have a bright future.

 

 

 

The key is intent. At the end of the day that's what this thread is about. Players don't usually want to leave a club which is on the verge of big things and the stories that Barton was prepared to take a pay cut in order to stay here suggested that we were headed in the right direction. What we do with that money in the summer, and what we do if other clubs slap in big offers for our main players will give us the answer.

[Wallace]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1353870/Newcastle-Sunderland-Andy-Carroll-Darren-Bent-departures.html

 

Says in this article that we will be a selling club for the next 2 years.

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1353870/Newcastle-Sunderland-Andy-Carroll-Darren-Bent-departures.html

 

Says in this article that we will be a selling club for the next 2 years.

 

 

Pardew doesn't say that, he just says we won't be able to resist massive bids like the one for Carroll.

[Optimistic Nut]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1353870/Newcastle-Sunderland-Andy-Carroll-Darren-Bent-departures.html

 

Says in this article that we will be a selling club for the next 2 years.

 

 

What a load of crap man. Both Newcastle & Sunderland were offered well over the odds for the players involved. Even the top clubs (Man Utd with Ronaldo, Liverpool with Torres, Spurs with Berbatov, etc) sell when this is the case.

[Guest Brummiemag]

We have no ambition whatsoever now apart from staying in the premier league

 

We will be a selling club as long as Ashley is in charge

[taxfree]

Ambition? No.

[Mistle17]

We have no ambition whatsoever now apart from staying in the premier league

 

We will be a selling club as long as Ashley is in charge

 

Yep.

[Optimistic Nut]

We have no ambition whatsoever now apart from staying in the premier league

 

We will be a selling club as long as Ashley is in charge

 

Yep.

 

Pretty much every club outside the top 7 bar Sunderland are though tbh. And even then, if Spurs miss out on CL this summer I can see them struggling to hold on to the likes of Modric, van der Vaart & Bale. It's reality I'm afraid.

[Guest Brummiemag]

But the point is we have the potential to be one of the top clubs in England.  We should show the ambition to realise that potential.

 

It wasn't so long ago we were getting 52,000 every week with a 10,000 waiting list - we have already lost the best part of 20,000 potential fans per game

 

Sadly the fanbase will decline a lot more next season - Ashley wants nothing more than survival in the premier league - he has turned us into a run of the mill premier league club

 

Its shameful  - we have the potential to be a top four club but that will never ever be realised with this wanker in charge

[JH]

It's also impossible to come back up and go gun ho towards the top four.

[Optimistic Nut]

But the point is we have the potential to be one of the top clubs in England.  We should show the ambition to realise that potential.

 

It wasn't so long ago we were getting 52,000 every week with a 10,000 waiting list - we have already lost the best part of 20,000 potential fans per game

 

Sadly the fanbase will decline a lot more next season - Ashley wants nothing more than survival in the premier league - he has turned us into a run of the mill premier league club

 

Its shameful  - we have the potential to be a top four club but that will never ever be realised with this w***** in charge

 

The only way we're going to ever be a top 4 club again barring an oil tycoon buying us, is to get us sorted financially first and build again. To be a top 4 club we're going to have to overtake one of Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea & Arsenal, plus Spurs & Liverpool, as well as compete consistently with Aston Villa & Everton who have similar aspirations. Far too simplistic to say "we have the potential to be a top four club", because there's 7 or 8 others already there or with similar targets.

[Guest Brummiemag]

Agreed but I expect us to build towards that with year on year investment through a net outlay on players - sadly you have to pay the transfer fees and the wages or you don't progress - Ashley has shown no indication of doing that - all the other top clubs are doing that 

[brummie]

All clubs are selling clubs at some point, which is why the term is a nonsense.

 

Man United when Real Madrid come looking for Ronaldo? Off he goes. Spurs with Berbatov when Man United come? Off he goes.

 

Any club in the top flight when Man City come and start waving insane money at their best players? Off they go.

[Mick]

The only way we're going to ever be a top 4 club again barring an oil tycoon buying us, is to get us sorted financially first and build again. To be a top 4 club we're going to have to overtake one of Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea & Arsenal, plus Spurs & Liverpool, as well as compete consistently with Aston Villa & Everton who have similar aspirations. Far too simplistic to say "we have the potential to be a top four club", because there's 7 or 8 others already there or with similar targets.

 

We were a club challenging Liverpool for league position until we sold them our top scorer an hour before the transfer deadline and in doing so strengthening them.

[JH]

Agreed but I expect us to build towards that with year on year investment through a net outlay on players - sadly you have to pay the transfer fees and the wages or you don't progress - Ashley has shown no indication of doing that - all the other top clubs are doing that 

 

Of all the things that Ashley has fucked me off over, his stance on wages isn't one of them.

[quayside]

But the point is we have the potential to be one of the top clubs in England.  We should show the ambition to realise that potential.

 

It wasn't so long ago we were getting 52,000 every week with a 10,000 waiting list - we have already lost the best part of 20,000 potential fans per game

 

Sadly the fanbase will decline a lot more next season - Ashley wants nothing more than survival in the premier league - he has turned us into a run of the mill premier league club

 

Its shameful  - we have the potential to be a top four club but that will never ever be realised with this w***** in charge

 

So find a new owner who can pay the price required to buy the club and will not only provide survival money but also is happy to stick money in to move it on.

[Optimistic Nut]

The only way we're going to ever be a top 4 club again barring an oil tycoon buying us, is to get us sorted financially first and build again. To be a top 4 club we're going to have to overtake one of Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea & Arsenal, plus Spurs & Liverpool, as well as compete consistently with Aston Villa & Everton who have similar aspirations. Far too simplistic to say "we have the potential to be a top four club", because there's 7 or 8 others already there or with similar targets.

 

We were a club challenging Liverpool for league position until we sold them our top scorer an hour before the transfer deadline and in doing so strengthening them.

 

A player who hasn't yet played for them, and would have missed our games anyway. He's contributed nowt to Liverpool overtaking us or anything.

[Mick]

A player who hasn't yet played for them, and would have missed our games anyway. He's contributed nowt to Liverpool overtaking us or anything.

 

He'll play this season and he'll score goals which gains them points, he'll not do that for us and he'll have given them a lift just through signing for them while according to our manager our players are down in the dumps.

[madras]

But the point is we have the potential to be one of the top clubs in England.  We should show the ambition to realise that potential.

 

It wasn't so long ago we were getting 52,000 every week with a 10,000 waiting list - we have already lost the best part of 20,000 potential fans per game

 

Sadly the fanbase will decline a lot more next season - Ashley wants nothing more than survival in the premier league - he has turned us into a run of the mill premier league club

 

Its shameful  - we have the potential to be a top four club but that will never ever be realised with this w***** in charge

 

So find a new owner who can pay the price required to buy the club and will not only provide survival money but also is happy to stick money in to move it on.

which is really nothing to do with our potential. had abramovich took over colchester and went about things the way he has at chelsea they would have won the premier league by now and be chasmps league regulars.

[Guest Brummiemag]

But the point is we have the potential to be one of the top clubs in England.  We should show the ambition to realise that potential.

 

It wasn't so long ago we were getting 52,000 every week with a 10,000 waiting list - we have already lost the best part of 20,000 potential fans per game

 

Sadly the fanbase will decline a lot more next season - Ashley wants nothing more than survival in the premier league - he has turned us into a run of the mill premier league club

 

Its shameful  - we have the potential to be a top four club but that will never ever be realised with this w***** in charge

 

So find a new owner who can pay the price required to buy the club and will not only provide survival money but also is happy to stick money in to move it on.

 

I wish I could - but what Ashley is doing is shameful and I cannot understand how some people (not you) still try to defend him

[quayside]

A player who hasn't yet played for them, and would have missed our games anyway. He's contributed nowt to Liverpool overtaking us or anything.

 

He'll play this season and he'll score goals which gains them points, he'll not do that for us and he'll have given them a lift just through signing for them while according to our manager our players are down in the dumps.

 

I don't know whether AC will score goals at L'pool  or what but I would think our players are very down about this regardless of him not being available for several weeks anyway. But Pardew has to deal with it and get results, that is why he was appointed.