Graham Carr

[The College Dropout]

A certain Argie shortarse leads the balls lost stat in La Liga. If you try to make stuff happen, you're bound to lose the ball more often.

 

That's not the point, though, Messi's strong on the ball. Cabella's extremely weak on it.

Exactly. People are making up useless stats to mask the clear issue.

 

There's umpteen situations in football that stats don't cover. There's loads of quick 50/50's, contesting loose balls, shoulder to shoulder moments.

 

Hatem lost the ball loads too but never did we criticise him for being too weak. He could compete with the lot or buy a real foul. Hatem had an explosive element to him - quick burst of acceleration and power.

 

Point being - Cabella doesn't look a natural fit to the division. He makes David Silva look like Didier Drogba. If I noticed that, why didn't our chief scout? Did he believe Cabella has Mata ability? Everyone knew we didn't want HBA - why didn't we look to bring in a genuine wide man if Cabella isn't that? That's predominantly how we played HBA.

 

IMO i'm certain De Jong was meant to replace Cabaye's advanced midfielder role. And Cabella replace HBA's right midfield role. Both seemed to be first picks in those positions.

 

Again with Anita. Personally, I just doin't think he's good enough. But he's not suited to the division.

 

We are left with a PL team that lacks athleticism and power. We don't have a strong lad up front that can relieve pressure by holding it up. We don't have a very quick lad up top to knock balls over the top with. We don't have an explosive wide player/attacker. We don't have a strong commanding CB. We don't have a CB with any real pace.

 

[The College Dropout]

I assume the dispossessed stat accounts for losing the ball to an opponent while you're on possession. Whether that's due to lack of strength or sloppy technique will vary a lot. Both players have a relatively low stat - in my opinion -, given that they will try to dribble/make runs pretty often during a game, putting them at risk of losing the ball to opponents.

 

Then Messi loses a lot of balls because he tries a lot of killer passes that don't come off, this is indeed another side of the game.

 

That's why I don't want to compare a meaningless stat. Messi is strong. He's a powerful runner. With the ball or without  you feel that explosive element when you watch him.  Suarez when he wasn't diving was the exact same in the PL. One of his PSG goals - the way he stuck out his leg to protect the ball from a challenge then rifled it in reminded me of some of the rough street football i've seen around the world. Just the attitude to the game.

[triggs]

A certain Argie shortarse leads the balls lost stat in La Liga. If you try to make stuff happen, you're bound to lose the ball more often.

 

That's not the point, though, Messi's strong on the ball. Cabella's extremely weak on it.

 

He's still dispossessed more often than Cabella (1,9 per game). Granted he probably gets far more on the ball than Cabella.

 

It's just that Cabella's stat doesn't sound that terrible to me.

Because Messi loses it when he runs at people. Cabella loses it a lot when he is going nowhere but just gets muscled off the ball, which never happens Messi

[Slim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJh0CQEam0g

[Gallowgate Toon]

A certain Argie shortarse leads the balls lost stat in La Liga. If you try to make stuff happen, you're bound to lose the ball more often.

 

That's not the point, though, Messi's strong on the ball. Cabella's extremely weak on it.

 

He's still dispossessed more often than Cabella (1,9 per game). Granted he probably gets far more on the ball than Cabella.

 

It's just that Cabella's stat doesn't sound that terrible to me.

Because Messi loses it when he runs at people. Cabella loses it a lot when he is going nowhere but just gets muscled off the ball, which never happens Messi

 

Obviously, comparing Messi to Cabella is completely futile, but Whoscored don't actually class being dispossessed as a failed dribble. In their terms - 'Dispossessed: Player is dispossessed on the ball by an opponent – no dribble involved'. They use a failed dribble as a separate statistic.

 

In Messi's case (La Liga, not other comps), he attempts 8.5 dribbles a game on average and is successful with 4.6 of them. He's dispossessed 1.9 times per match and has 1.2 unsuccessful touches.

[Ronaldo]

Once again the point has been missed. When Messi is dispossessed it's because of his ambition to take risks and make something happen. Cabella's just built like a little woman and can't get himself into games frequently enough because of it.

[Gallowgate Toon]

Once again the point has been missed. When Messi is disposed it's because of his ambition to take risks and make something happen. Cabella's just built like a little woman and can't get himself into games frequently enough because of it.

 

I wasn't disputing that, I was just showing that they don't class them as the same thing when presenting the info.

 

Anyway, I don't dispute that Cabella's lack of acceleration is a hindrance, TCD. But he's not a truly direct wide player like Hatem was, he made his name in France as a playmaker that could move where he pleased, floating between the lines and linking with team mates. He wasn't really ever isolated or based his game largely around dribbling. I do think he can be a success in this league, but it would either take him playing in his preferred position or a much more astute (and brave) tactical set up to make it work.

[The College Dropout]

Point is - he doesn't look suited to the division and we spunked a large amount of our pathetic transfer pot on him. Carr knew who he was coming to play under and with the signing of De Jong - it was always going to be in a wide position.

[magpie1892]

Cabella was £12m and I don't think we'd be able to sell him for more than that.

 

Ergo we won't be buying any more £12m players. Far too risky.

 

Cabella was c.£5.2 million.

[The College Dropout]

Cabella was £12m and I don't think we'd be able to sell him for more than that.

 

Ergo we won't be buying any more £12m players. Far too risky.

 

Cabella was c.£5.2 million.

 

Minimum i've seen is £8.8m and a max of £13m.

 

Think he'd be decent as more of AMC myself. He's had good games in this league that show he's capable of playing in it. Just not enough as yet

 

So would De Jong, so would Perez. Who can play wide?

[magpie1892]

Cabella was £12m and I don't think we'd be able to sell him for more than that.

 

Ergo we won't be buying any more £12m players. Far too risky.

 

Cabella was c.£5.2 million.

 

Minimum i've seen is £8.8m and a max of £13m.

 

 

Journalist I know at France Football told me we paid £1.8m for Riviere and £5.2m for Cabella. The rest was all wages and agents' fees, bungs, etc.

 

Of course, NUFC haven't disclosed the fee but we paid less than half of the 'widely accepted' £12m figure for the player himself.

 

Be lucky to get £3m back tomorrow, I reckon.

[Dave]

£3m.

 

Whatever the figure we paid, I'm sure it'll be used as a reason we shouldn't be that reckless again.

[NG32]

Cheap arsed replacements.  Ashley and his buy cheap sell high method has bit him on the arse again. Top pro football is nothing like scoring on buying some knock down trackie pants and then selling them on to some teenage charver who knows nothing else. 

[Guest chopey]

I've always thought inflated player transfer fees would be a good way to launder money

[magpie1892]

£3m.

 

Whatever the figure we paid, I'm sure it'll be used as a reason we shouldn't be that reckless again.

 

OK, maybe a couple of mill then.

 

It won't, because the club will never disclose what we actually paid for him..!

[Mattoon]

The most annoying part is we could have got the likes of Lacazette/PEA/Grenier etc etc but didn't out of cheapness

 

Tbf ManDoon,  I don't think any of them would have done well in a static team isolated up front or on the wing. We could make Messi look s*** based on the fact Williamson would be pinging 50 yard balls to his head and the rest of the team would stand and watch expecting him to take on 5 players and score.

 

Going back to Cabella being dispossessed I've seen it with HBA, Cabella, Perez, etc.. they take the ball in promising situations, take a few players on and end up stuck in a corner with no players within 20 yards or get doubled up on and lose possession. I think there is something to Cabella and I think he can do a decent job in this league, just not with this "management" or these tactics. He is lightweight and I agree that he's not got it right now but I wouldn't rule him out just yet.

[Mattoon]

The most annoying part is we could have got the likes of Lacazette/PEA/Grenier etc etc but didn't out of cheapness

 

Tbf ManDoon,  I don't think any of them would have done well in a static team isolated up front or on the wing. We could make Messi look s*** based on the fact Williamson would be pinging 50 yard balls to his head and the rest of the team would stand and watch expecting him to take on 5 players and score.

 

Going back to Cabella being dispossessed I've seen it with HBA, Cabella, Perez, etc.. they take the ball in promising situations, take a few players on and end up stuck in a corner with no players within 20 yards or get doubled up on and lose possession. I think there is something to Cabella and I think he can do a decent job in this league, just not with this "management" or these tactics. He is lightweight and I agree that he's not got it right now but I wouldn't rule him out just yet.

 

I agree like, but the difference is players like HBA were capable of creating regardless of the s*** around them, I don't feel like Cabella has that. In a fluid team though I don't doubt he would be very good.

 

[Village Idiot]

I have seen Cabella have good matches/halves for you; I remember for example the first half against Stoke (a pretty physical team), where he was extremely active. He's just the kind of player that needs movement around him. Whenever I watch you it's pretty damn obvious that the guys upfront are woefully isolated; many times Cabella or Ayoze pull off a decent bit of skill and find themselves completely without options.

 

It's also a mistake to see him as the HBA replacement. He's more of an advanced playmaker; he's Iniesta, not Messi (if we go with the Barça comparisons).

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

I have seen Cabella have good matches/halves for you; I remember for example the first half against Stoke (a pretty physical team), where he was extremely active. He's just the kind of player that needs movement around him. Whenever I watch you it's pretty damn obvious that the guys upfront are woefully isolated; many times Cabella or Ayoze pull off a decent bit of skill and find themselves completely without options.

 

It's also a mistake to see him as the HBA replacement. He's more of an advanced playmaker; he's Iniesta, not Messi (if we go with the Barça comparisons).

 

[sixx]

I'm still convinced that Cabella could be very useful given the right formation and coaching.

[TRon]

We've had these arguments so many times over the last few seasons. Marveaux was too lightweight - we got rid. Ben Arfa didn' track back - we got rid. Yet here we are still losing 7 on the bounce. Maybe when we sell Cabella we'll finally win games with a frog free first eleven.

[The College Dropout]

We've had these arguments so many times over the last few seasons. Marveaux was too lightweight - we got rid. Ben Arfa didn' track back - we got rid. Yet here we are still losing 7 on the bounce. Maybe when we sell Cabella we'll finally win games with a frog free first eleven.

That's not the logic anybody is following except you. I don't even know how you've got to that conclusion.

 

We are talking about the scouting of our players. Janmaat looks a great acquisition. Perez a bargain and very promising. Depending on wages - Colback looks a decent signing too. But we spent over £20m on three attacking transfers. 1 has no record of being a goalscorer, another an extensive injury record and the last doesn't look to be suited to the division. So i'm questioning some of the decisions made by our Chief Scout.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think De Jong is the most important injury we've had for years. He would have at least been able to paper over our lack of attacking gameplan. I don't know much about his pre-Newcastle injury record mind.

[TRon]

We've had these arguments so many times over the last few seasons. Marveaux was too lightweight - we got rid. Ben Arfa didn' track back - we got rid. Yet here we are still losing 7 on the bounce. Maybe when we sell Cabella we'll finally win games with a frog free first eleven.

That's not the logic anybody is following except you. I don't even know how you've got to that conclusion.

 

We are talking about the scouting of our players. Janmaat looks a great acquisition. Perez a bargain and very promising. Depending on wages - Colback looks a decent signing too. But we spent over £20m on three attacking transfers. 1 has no record of being a goalscorer, another an extensive injury record and the last doesn't look to be suited to the division. So i'm questioning some of the decisions made by our Chief Scout.

 

As has already been mentioned though, these are often 4th or 5th options down the list because Charnley/Ashley are always looking for a bargain rather than proven quality. How did we end up with Marveaux for example?

 

 

[Interpolic]

I think De Jong is the most important injury we've had for years. He would have at least been able to paper over our lack of attacking gameplan. I don't know much about his pre-Newcastle injury record mind.

 

It's not as bad as is made out, he always misses a few games a season but he played 28-47 over the last 5 seasons.

 

A collapsed lung is apparently well known for being an injury that comes back, mind.