Football's greatest - where does Lionel Messi rank?

[Guest gggg]

I remember there being a time when Zidane was the de facto best player of all time and anyone who disagreed would be hounded by the Zidane bedsheeters. Although at least his fanboys didn't try to suddenly invent the idea that International football doesn't matter when evaluating footballers.

[Taylor Swift]

Saying Zidane was in an inferior team at Madrid than what Barcelona are now is sort of ruining on his own point anyway.

 

The Galacticos was bought with unlimited bank rolled funds, signing the worlds great players trying to create some sort of super team.  If Zidane was more consistent and could dictate games throughout an entire season Madrid should have easily won more than they did during that time, but he wasn't.

 

This Barcelona team has eclipsed anything Madrid ever done during that era by a some f***ing distance because of players who cost nothing coming through the ranks like Xavi.  He's won twice as many league titles and 3 times as many Champions Leagues as Zidane.  He's also been named player of a major international tournament and has assists in his last 2 CL Finals.  He's shown up in big games just as much as Zidane did but has also done it consistently season after season for the last 7 years.

 

Titles are won by team. How many world player of the year has Xavi won? That surely is the epitome of individual achievement in football.

He'd have had one if he wasn't up against the player of our generation.

 

Nah because Barca wouldn't have won La Liga or the CL last year, and they wouldn't have won La Liga the year before without Messi as well.

 

Honestly, a lot of the plaudits that Iniesta and Xavi get is because the team is so dominant. Someone like Alonso is of very similar quality but because the guys who finish off his passes aren't as good as Messi, Real don't win as much and thus Alonso doesn't receive as much adulation.

[Mr. Snrub]

 

The players that 'finish off' Alonso's passes are Ronaldo, Higuain and Benzema ffs.  But yes, their poor finishing makes him look bad.

[Shak]

[Village Idiot]

Alonso isn't that much of a "last pass" kind of guy, though. He's brilliant and Madrid completely depend on him to give some purpose to their attack.

 

 

[Taylor Swift]

that was what I was trying to say but I got carried away.

 

The point being that Alonso and Xavi have similar roles and it's the achievement of the team that separates them in the eyes of the public. They are actually of similar quality, IMO.

[ponsaelius]

Xavi is on a whole other level to Alonso.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Xavi is mesmerising like, haven't watched Alonso as much but I know he's a classy passer. I think I actually enjoy watching Iniesta as much as Xavi as well.

 

Find it a bit pointless comparing players who are so good, like Zidane vs Whoever and Messi v Ronaldo. Who cares, watching them play is a joy, I don't give a fuck who's "the best".

[Shak]

They're the same type of player, Xavi is just that bit better at everything than Alonso.

 

No way Alonso is as good man.

[Village Idiot]

Xavi is currently battling Raúl as the best Spanish player of all time, in my opinion. Even the pro-Madrid press acknowledge that nowadays.

 

Alonso is still great, but he doesn't have Xavi's easeness in tight areas. He works best sitting back and spraying those passes around, and doing the odd run forward to relieve pressure of the forwards/AMC and giving them a passing option with the guarantee that possession will be recycled with a purpose.

 

Real Madrid is full of direct players that are always looking to finish a play (and are great at that), and he's the only one with the football brain to start one. That's why he's so important for them and his importance so apparent, but he's not as good as our Xavi in my opinion.

[Beren]

I remember there being a time when Zidane was the de facto best player of all time and anyone who disagreed would be hounded by the Zidane bedsheeters. Although at least his fanboys didn't try to suddenly invent the idea that International football doesn't matter when evaluating footballers.

 

Happens with every generation tbh. Recency effect and all that.

[Guest neesy111]

Xavi is regarded as the best Spanish player ever, so saying Alonso is as good is just daft.

 

I think Xavi is the greatest midfielder of his generation.

[Flip]

Xavi is regarded as the best Spanish player ever, so saying Alonso is as good is just daft.

 

I think Xavi is the greatest midfielder of his generation.

 

Agreed, which says anyone saying Barcelona is a one man team is absolutely fucking daft.  (although I do feel the debate whether who is better between him and Zidane is interesting)

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Zidane though, beautiful to watch, never seen a player with such awareness and touch. Amazing how if there was a square inch where the opponent couldn't reach, he would make sure his first touch put the ball exactly in it.

[Village Idiot]

Xavi is regarded as the best Spanish player ever, so saying Alonso is as good is just daft.

 

I think Xavi is the greatest midfielder of his generation.

 

Agreed, which says anyone saying Barcelona is a one man team is absolutely f***ing daft.  (although I do feel the debate whether who is better between him and Zidane is interesting)

 

As I like to say, Messi sits on the throne that Xavi builds for him. In my opinion, even if Messi is clearly the focus of our team, we need both.

[Flip]

Zidane though, beautiful to watch, never seen a player with such awareness and touch. Amazing how if there was a square inch where the opponent couldn't reach, he would make sure his first touch put the ball exactly in it.

 

Zidane had a higher peak than Xavi, and if you judge on that he was the better player. Absolutely unstoppable on his day. Daniel Andersson who played for Bari said he had to mark and defend Zidane even when they were on the attack. Said it was the most difficult job to do because of his strength and ballprotecting ability.

 

Xavi is more consistent, doubt Ive ever seen Xavi have a really really bad game.

[Flip]

Xavi is regarded as the best Spanish player ever, so saying Alonso is as good is just daft.

 

I think Xavi is the greatest midfielder of his generation.

 

Agreed, which says anyone saying Barcelona is a one man team is absolutely f***ing daft.  (although I do feel the debate whether who is better between him and Zidane is interesting)

 

As I like to say, Messi sits on the throne that Xavi builds for him. In my opinion, even if Messi is clearly the focus of our team, we need both.

 

You need more than both to be the best team in the world. Iniesta, Busquets (just excellent), Dani Alves who has the most assist in the league. 5 players are fundamental to your team. (Puyol, Pique and Abidal are good but they can still IMO be changed for other three equally good defenders) Its your passing game with those 5 that is so fucking beautiful vhough.

[Village Idiot]

Zidane though, beautiful to watch, never seen a player with such awareness and touch. Amazing how if there was a square inch where the opponent couldn't reach, he would make sure his first touch put the ball exactly in it.

 

Zidane had a higher peak than Xavi, and if you judge on that he was the better player. Absolutely unstoppable on his day. Daniel Andersson who played for Bari said he had to mark and defend Zidane even when they were on the attack. Said it was the most difficult job to do because of his strength and ballprotecting ability.

 

Xavi is more consistent, doubt Ive ever seen Xavi have a really really bad game.

 

I have, but those are very odd and even this season he carried a knock when he had his last bad game (away at Villarreal).

 

Anyway, I won't contest that when Zidane was on, nobody couldn't touch him. My gripe with him as a player is how inconsistent he was (at least during his time at Real Madrid, which is the period I watched him most). I have seen lots of games with him dragging his feet in midfield while Ronaldo/Figo/Raúl did the business for the team.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Zidane has more of an inconsistent temperament as well obviously, which probably contributes to his off days.

 

Xavi seems a 100% pure professional, humble and hard working. Almost all of this Barca team are an example on that front. Not to mention boning Shakira.

[ponsaelius]

Xavi is regarded as the best Spanish player ever, so saying Alonso is as good is just daft.

 

I think Xavi is the greatest midfielder of his generation.

 

Agreed, which says anyone saying Barcelona is a one man team is absolutely f***ing daft.  (although I do feel the debate whether who is better between him and Zidane is interesting)

 

As I like to say, Messi sits on the throne that Xavi builds for him. In my opinion, even if Messi is clearly the focus of our team, we need both.

 

You need more than both to be the best team in the world. Iniesta, Busquets (just excellent), Dani Alves who has the most assist in the league. 5 players are fundamental to your team. (Puyol, Pique and Abidal are good but they can still IMO be changed for other three equally good defenders) Its your passing game with those 5 that is so fucking beautiful vhough.

 

Busquets would walk into pretty much any midfield in the world. He's a cunt but a great player.

[Shak]

Xavi is regarded as the best Spanish player ever, so saying Alonso is as good is just daft.

 

I think Xavi is the greatest midfielder of his generation.

 

Agreed, which says anyone saying Barcelona is a one man team is absolutely f***ing daft.  (although I do feel the debate whether who is better between him and Zidane is interesting)

 

As I like to say, Messi sits on the throne that Xavi builds for him. In my opinion, even if Messi is clearly the focus of our team, we need both.

 

But if you had to lose one of them for a season or so, there's no doubt who you'd choose surely?

 

Fabregas could do a very serviceable job filling in for Xavi I would have thought, but I can't think of a single player (and not just in Barca's squad, take any player in the world) that could even come close to filling in Messi's role in the team.

[ponsaelius]

Who do you think is the most likely candidate to 'fill' Xavi's role once he retires, VI?

 

Iniesta? Fabregas? Thiago?

 

[Lush Vlad]

Xavi is currently battling Raúl as the best Spanish player of all time, in my opinion. Even the pro-Madrid press acknowledge that nowadays.

 

Alonso is still great, but he doesn't have Xavi's easeness in tight areas. He works best sitting back and spraying those passes around, and doing the odd run forward to relieve pressure of the forwards/AMC and giving them a passing option with the guarantee that possession will be recycled with a purpose.

 

Real Madrid is full of direct players that are always looking to finish a play (and are great at that), and he's the only one with the football brain to start one. That's why he's so important for them and his importance so apparent, but he's not as good as our Xavi in my opinion.

 

I like Alonso, but is he known as a bit of a wanker or something?  Might be coincidence, but in his last season for Liverpool, I think 3 or 4 people were sent off for hacking him down!  One was Joey Barton.

 

He always seems like such a sly, dirty fucker against Barca as well.  Loads of niggly fouls, plus some really naughty ones.  Seems to escape punishment, whereas players like Ramos just pick up their customary red card    Alonso does get a lot of yellows doesn't he?

[Village Idiot]

Xavi is regarded as the best Spanish player ever, so saying Alonso is as good is just daft.

 

I think Xavi is the greatest midfielder of his generation.

 

Agreed, which says anyone saying Barcelona is a one man team is absolutely f***ing daft.  (although I do feel the debate whether who is better between him and Zidane is interesting)

 

As I like to say, Messi sits on the throne that Xavi builds for him. In my opinion, even if Messi is clearly the focus of our team, we need both.

 

But if you had to lose one of them for a season or so, there's no doubt who you'd choose surely?

 

Fabregas could do a very serviceable job filling in for Xavi I would have thought, but I can't think of a single player (and not just in Barca's squad, take any player in the world) that could even come close to filling in Messi's role in the team.

 

We tried Cesc in the Xavi role this season and hasn't worked well (he's been great as AM though). He has admitted that he doesn't have "Xavi's patience" for building up play but he'll "try to learn it".

 

I have high hopes for Thiago though. He's matured a lot in just a single year and ability-wise he has it all. Needs time, of course.

[Village Idiot]

Xavi is currently battling Raúl as the best Spanish player of all time, in my opinion. Even the pro-Madrid press acknowledge that nowadays.

 

Alonso is still great, but he doesn't have Xavi's easeness in tight areas. He works best sitting back and spraying those passes around, and doing the odd run forward to relieve pressure of the forwards/AMC and giving them a passing option with the guarantee that possession will be recycled with a purpose.

 

Real Madrid is full of direct players that are always looking to finish a play (and are great at that), and he's the only one with the football brain to start one. That's why he's so important for them and his importance so apparent, but he's not as good as our Xavi in my opinion.

 

I like Alonso, but is he known as a bit of a w***** or something?  Might be coincidence, but in his last season for Liverpool, I think 3 or 4 people were sent off for hacking him down!  One was Joey Barton.

 

He always seems like such a sly, dirty f***er against Barca as well.  Loads of niggly fouls, plus some really naughty ones.  Seems to escape punishment, whereas players like Ramos just pick up their customary red card    Alonso does get a lot of yellows doesn't he?

 

His tackling is Scholes-esque indeed and picks up quite a few yellows and should get more reds than he does. He seems a fairly sporting guy though, one of the few that never gets involved in the routine Barça-Madrid brawls.