Flip Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Well done, Leo. Completely deserved. The greatest player to ever grace this earth. To be all time CL scorer by the age of 27 aswell as having more WPOTY awards than anyone else is more than enough proof. What happens when Cristiano breaks the record tomorrow again? And wins Balon d'Or next year again? He won't, Messi now on 73 just scored again. 74 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 It should be mentioned Ronaldo is older than Messi and it's taken Messi less games to get his total so in theory he should be comfortably clear by the time both of them are done. I never understood why there was such a big debate on twitter and the likes over who was gonna break it first, surely irrelevant when both have many more years to score more? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 It should be mentioned Ronaldo is older than Messi and it's taken Messi less games to get his total so in theory he should be comfortably clear by the time both of them are done. I never understood why there was such a big debate on twitter and the likes over who was gonna break it first, surely irrelevant when both have many more years to score more? That's fair enough, but CRonaldo seems to get better while Messi in the past 12 months has declined a bit (fair enough he's been injured a bit). But yeah I do believe Messi will end up as the top scorer when it's all done and dusted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I'm not sure it's so much a decline as it is a player who visibly lost motivation. He can get it back but we'll see, this season will tell a lot about how the rest of his career will go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I'm not sure it's so much a decline as it is a player who visibly lost motivation. He can get it back but we'll see, this season will tell a lot about how the rest of his career will go. The World Cup wasn't enough of a motivation then? Nah, it's definitely a decline in consistency. Can still be unstoppable on his day, but he doesn't do it as regularly as he used to which is completely understandable. But Cronaldo seems to be getting stronger and stronger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 He didn't look motivated tbf, should have been obviously but really didn't look arsed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I'm not sure it's so much a decline as it is a player who visibly lost motivation. He can get it back but we'll see, this season will tell a lot about how the rest of his career will go. The World Cup wasn't enough of a motivation then? Nah, it's definitely a decline in consistency. Can still be unstoppable on his day, but he doesn't do it as regularly as he used to which is completely understandable. But Cronaldo seems to be getting stronger and stronger. Worth reminding ourselves that we are talking in the context of being the greatest ever, of course. He's just fucking stupidly mint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Well done, Leo. Completely deserved. The greatest player to ever grace this earth. To be all time CL scorer by the age of 27 aswell as having more WPOTY awards than anyone else is more than enough proof. Had the chance to witness it live in Nicosia tonight. Only managed to find ONE bloody ticket, and that was going for 170 euro The greatest ever IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 He didn't look motivated tbf, should have been obviously but really didn't look arsed. Or he just wasn't capable of playing at his best? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Messi was class at the World Cup, although winning the Golden Ball was a bit too far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Messi was class at the World Cup, although winning the Golden Ball was a bit too far. Mentally he wasn't all there IMO. He focused long enough to pull his team out of the mire, and then dipped again. It was a personal/mental issue for sure, possibly injury related. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Even as a massive Messi fanboy myself, it's a hell of a push to say he was class. Moments of brilliance obviously but the 2014 World Cup was ultimately a disappointment and won't be near the top of the reasons people will claim he's the greatest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Messi was class at the World Cup, although winning the Golden Ball was a bit too far. I really don't agree, sure he scored the important goals in the group stage but his general play was rather average imo. He didn't impose himself and he was like that for big parts of the spring. Not really there like themanupstaris says, losing the ball a lot more than he's used too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Yeah, I was gutted when he missed that chance in the final. The whole thing was just weird, I wanted him to step up so badly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Despite often being double marked, he dragged Argentina to the quarters until tiredness set in. He wasn't 100% or even 90% but I still think he was one of the tournament's top performers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 He was great in the group stages. Those group stages in general Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 He was great in the group stages. Those group stages in general The whole World Cups first 60 games Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 He was great in the group stages. Those group stages in general The whole World Cups first 60 games And the rest of it especially the semis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Lionel Messi is one of the all time greats that much is certain. Greatest ever? Not even the best Argentine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I think both Cristiano and Messi are relatively poor in leading a team and bringing out the best of their teammates. That's it. It's a generational problem. Ronaldinho suffered from the same issue. Ronaldinho is the most entertaining player i've eve seen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 As I said before, at his very best, Zidane was just unbelievable. The man was a magician. Had he reached those levels like the ones he reached in Euro 2000 more consistently, then I believe he would be mentioned more favourably. He was the epitome of a big game player. I agree, but he was no Lionel Messi at his best, not by a long chalk. Not even Ronaldo at his best was. There I'll have to disagree completely with you. Both at their peak were as good as Messi in my opinion if not better. Difference is Messi has been able to maintain the same level for so many games in a row, so many years in a row it's become something we haven't seen from a player in this generation and that's what makes him the best of his generation in my opinion. Nah, sorry like. Just no. Messi scored in every match at his peak, as in he scored 33 goals in 21 games in a row, he scored f***ing 91 goals in 69 games man, again including the important ones. He's scored in: 2009 and 2012 Copa Del Rey Final 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 Supercopa Finals 2009 and 2011 Champions League Finals (he was also man of the match in both) 2011 Supercup Final 2009 and 2011 World Club Cup Finals He's also scored 21 goals in 27 el clasicos with 15 assists. Messi was the better player at his best or at his worst and literally the only reason to suggest otherwise is Zidane's goals in the '98 final and Messi missing in the '14 final. Even then it's ridiculous tbh. Messi is the best player that we've seen in our lifetimes and even the slightest suggestion otherwise is nothing short of preposterous contrarianism. That last paragraph is bollocks. I'm not being contrary and Ive seen better than Messi in my lifetime. Ive seen one or two on the same level too. Who were those players as a matter of interest? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I think both Cristiano and Messi are relatively poor in leading a team and bringing out the best of their teammates. But would bringing the best out in their teammates and thus probably reducing their own scoring be the best for the team? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I think both Cristiano and Messi are relatively poor in leading a team and bringing out the best of their teammates. But would bringing the best out in their teammates and thus probably reducing their own scoring be the best for the team? Yes. They've achieved the best success when they've been part of the best teams. each time they've won the CL they've been part of the very best teams. And in most cases they weren't the difference in finals or semi's. Obviously both played big roles. I've banged on about this before but a part of selling the sport and taking it to another level as a business you must create behemoth teams and superstars. I call it the Jordan effect. You now have players who have grown up thinking the game is all about individualism. As such a lot of the very best players can be loosely described as greedy players and they don't reach that level of acclaim typically - unless they are actually fairly self-absorbed. Gareth Bale went onto another level when it was decided he shouldn't bother to defend and concentrate on scoring as much as he could. He almost fired them to the CL but the times they actually finished in the top 4 was when he was more of a team player and the focus was on the team - not the individual. Messi wasn't like that but he has become that. The way the Argies talk about him is disgusting "we need to play so that he can win us the world cup" or words to that effect. The last 3 teams to win the World Cup didn't have a Messiah type figure to fire them to glory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Lionel Messi is one of the all time greats that much is certain. Greatest ever? Not even the best Argentine. That's fair enough but I'm too young to have seen Maradona. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Consistency is more important than what any player can do "at their peak" imo, though Messi hardly falls down on the latter either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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