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Football's greatest - where does Lionel Messi rank?

Dave

by Dave
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Posted
Posted

Check out my forum name. How old are you? What's your name? Where do you live?

 

:lol:

 

You're Swedish aren't you? I recognize your name from the old magpies.nu forums.

 

Just to get the context of your views on Ronaldo, how do you rate him in comparison to Zlatan for example?

 

Aye, half Swedish. Depends on which Ronaldo, in any case I rate both quite much higher than Zlatan tbf. Zlatan is a top top striker, but even today in a time where we don't have as many good strikers as years back I don't see him as a top 5 in the world. I rate Falcao, Messi, CRonaldo, Suarez, van Persie, Rooney all above him tbf.

 

Check out my forum name. How old are you? What's your name? Where do you live?

Then I think it instantly makes an absolute mockery of the ridiculous lengths you go to fight your case for Pele, regardless of your Brazilian heritage.

 

I've said this time and time before, I've seen over 100 matches of Pele play. I'm grown up in a football family spending hours watching football a day. Sure I wasn't there to see every single game of his, but I'd think I've seen more of Pele than I have of Messi as I don't watch Barcelona against Vallecano, Valladolid, Deportivo and so on. I've had this discussion before and people have actually been fair on that, but I guess you found your lousy argument trying to make a point.

 

Just because people watch the World Cup doesn't mean that it should be a significant factor in determining a player's greatness. Its a maximum of 7 games every four years in which one injury or stupid refereeing decision can cost you a shot at winning or doing well. Like ive said, ill take 60 games a year every year because that is the true mark of greatness. To be great you have to be consistently great. Cristiano is better than Romario. You talk about Romario's work ethic like its something cool, like its something to be respected. Maybe his natural talent was so good. Maybe Ronaldo is a product of hard work, a machine rather than something natural, instinctive. But I will take Cristiano any day of the week because he's remarkably effective. Romario shouldn't even be in this discussion. He's not in the second tier of great footballers. Ronaldo is far better than he ever was.

 

 

I respect your sentiments and do find you have valid arguments regarding CR even if I don't agree on them a slight bit. But like VI and Tooj are saying you not only do a great disservice to Romario, you also prove you didn't watch him. I mean everyone talks about freekicks and so on but I could go on and name at the very least 10 players who were better than CRonaldo.

 

And to all of you talking about CRonaldo and his freekicks, I hope you realize he has scored in something of like 7% of his freekicks with only like 24% hitting the target. This stat was on Swedish tv the other day. Look up Zico, a man regarded by many as the greatest player (well until Messi) not to win a World Cup. That guy was an attacking midfielder who dominated games and he COULD strike a ball from a freekick. For me and many many others Zico was a much better player than todays CRonaldo. So was Maradona, Messi, Garrincha, Cruyff, Beckenbauer. These guys had something else about them something the absolute best had.

 

I'm not taking anything away from CRonaldo, he's just nowhere near the absolute top of the best of all times.

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Guest neesy111

Guest neesy111

Posted
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If Spain didn't have a winter break he'd probably get close to 100.

 

Does that not just mean he gets more games/goals at other times of the season instead though? :lol:

 

:okay:

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Guest palnese

Guest palnese

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In the end the best 5 players ever are South Americans. The Europeans have a lot to achieve to reach those levels ;)

 

 

George Best, Eusebio, Franz Beckenbauer, Michel Platini, Lev Yashin, Bobby Charlton, Stanley Matthews, Gerd Muller, Lotthar Matthaeus, Dino Zoff, Ferenc Puskas, Ruud Gullit, Franco Baresi,Laudrup, Zinedine Zidane, Micahael Laudrup, etc :aww:

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Froggy

Froggy

Posted
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In the end the best 5 players ever are South Americans. The Europeans have a lot to achieve to reach those levels ;)

 

 

George Best, Eusebio, Franz Beckenbauer, Michel Platini, Lev Yashin, Bobby Charlton, Stanley Matthews, Gerd Muller, Lotthar Matthaeus, Dino Zoff, Ferenc Puskas, Ruud Gullit, Franco Baresi,Laudrup, Zinedine Zidane, Micahael Laudrup, etc :aww:

 

Cristiano Ronaldo. :)

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Guest tollemache

Guest tollemache

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I don't understand this stuff about the World Cup being a requirement if you're to be considered the best. Does Best's failure ever to play in a World Cup make him worse than fat Ronaldo who won it with his eyes shut?

 

The question is: how good are they? And Messi is clearly as good as anyone has ever been. If Maradona and Pele are the benchmark, performance-wise, then by any measure, especially given how old he is, he's as good as them.

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Dr. Nguyen Van Falk

Dr. Nguyen Van Falk

Posted
Posted

Check out my forum name. How old are you? What's your name? Where do you live?

 

:lol:

 

You're Swedish aren't you? I recognize your name from the old magpies.nu forums.

 

Just to get the context of your views on Ronaldo, how do you rate him in comparison to Zlatan for example?

 

Aye, half Swedish. Depends on which Ronaldo, in any case I rate both quite much higher than Zlatan tbf. Zlatan is a top top striker, but even today in a time where we don't have as many good strikers as years back I don't see him as a top 5 in the world. I rate Falcao, Messi, CRonaldo, Suarez, van Persie, Rooney all above him tbf.

 

Check out my forum name. How old are you? What's your name? Where do you live?

Then I think it instantly makes an absolute mockery of the ridiculous lengths you go to fight your case for Pele, regardless of your Brazilian heritage.

 

I've said this time and time before, I've seen over 100 matches of Pele play. I'm grown up in a football family spending hours watching football a day. Sure I wasn't there to see every single game of his, but I'd think I've seen more of Pele than I have of Messi as I don't watch Barcelona against Vallecano, Valladolid, Deportivo and so on. I've had this discussion before and people have actually been fair on that, but I guess you found your lousy argument trying to make a point.

 

Just because people watch the World Cup doesn't mean that it should be a significant factor in determining a player's greatness. Its a maximum of 7 games every four years in which one injury or stupid refereeing decision can cost you a shot at winning or doing well. Like ive said, ill take 60 games a year every year because that is the true mark of greatness. To be great you have to be consistently great. Cristiano is better than Romario. You talk about Romario's work ethic like its something cool, like its something to be respected. Maybe his natural talent was so good. Maybe Ronaldo is a product of hard work, a machine rather than something natural, instinctive. But I will take Cristiano any day of the week because he's remarkably effective. Romario shouldn't even be in this discussion. He's not in the second tier of great footballers. Ronaldo is far better than he ever was.

 

 

I respect your sentiments and do find you have valid arguments regarding CR even if I don't agree on them a slight bit. But like VI and Tooj are saying you not only do a great disservice to Romario, you also prove you didn't watch him. I mean everyone talks about freekicks and so on but I could go on and name at the very least 10 players who were better than CRonaldo.

 

And to all of you talking about CRonaldo and his freekicks, I hope you realize he has scored in something of like 7% of his freekicks with only like 24% hitting the target. This stat was on Swedish tv the other day. Look up Zico, a man regarded by many as the greatest player (well until Messi) not to win a World Cup. That guy was an attacking midfielder who dominated games and he COULD strike a ball from a freekick. For me and many many others Zico was a much better player than todays CRonaldo. So was Maradona, Messi, Garrincha, Cruyff, Beckenbauer. These guys had something else about them something the absolute best had.

 

I'm not taking anything away from CRonaldo, he's just nowhere near the absolute top of the best of all times.

 

Suarez? WTF?!  :idiot2:

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Guest tollemache

Guest tollemache

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I remember Roberto Carlos was subject to the same hoo-ha about his free kicks, for the same reason as Ronaldo - they looked really good when they came off. He'd hump them into the wall most of the time. For a while early in his career he seemed to score a few, such as at Inter, but especially at Real Madrid I remember it being a case of commentators building him up while he did his rather camp run-up, then him pounding it into some poor sap's chest while Zidane stood and scowled.

 

Zola is where it's at for free kicks- there was a period at Parma where he was in the habit of scoring about 30% of them. That is definitely true: I have a video from then and James Richardson says so.

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GuyP

GuyP

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Bias as he is my favorite player playing today, but Suarez better than Zlatan? I rate Suarez but i don't think he is even the best Uruguayan...

 

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Zlatan+Ibrahimovic+Edinson+Cavani+Gran+Gala+PNFbNZsGwHWl.jpg

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Disco

Disco

Posted
Posted

I remember Roberto Carlos was subject to the same hoo-ha about his free kicks, for the same reason as Ronaldo - they looked really good when they came off. He'd hump them into the wall most of the time. For a while early in his career he seemed to score a few, such as at Inter, but especially at Real Madrid I remember it being a case of commentators building him up while he did his rather camp run-up, then him pounding it into some poor sap's chest while Zidane stood and scowled.

 

Zola is where it's at for free kicks- there was a period at Parma where he was in the habit of scoring about 30% of them. That is definitely true: I have a video from then and James Richardson says so.

 

Siniša Mihajlović is where it's at for Serie A free kick takers of the late 90s.

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maybe_next_year

maybe_next_year

Posted
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In the end the best 5 players ever are South Americans. The Europeans have a lot to achieve to reach those levels ;)

 

 

George Best, Eusebio, Franz Beckenbauer, Michel Platini, Lev Yashin, Bobby Charlton, Stanley Matthews, Gerd Muller, Lotthar Matthaeus, Dino Zoff, Ferenc Puskas, Ruud Gullit, Franco Baresi,Laudrup, Zinedine Zidane, Micahael Laudrup, etc :aww:

 

Cristiano Ronaldo. :)

 

Shola. :)

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Froggy

Froggy

Posted
Posted

I remember Roberto Carlos was subject to the same hoo-ha about his free kicks, for the same reason as Ronaldo - they looked really good when they came off. He'd hump them into the wall most of the time. For a while early in his career he seemed to score a few, such as at Inter, but especially at Real Madrid I remember it being a case of commentators building him up while he did his rather camp run-up, then him pounding it into some poor sap's chest while Zidane stood and scowled.

 

Zola is where it's at for free kicks- there was a period at Parma where he was in the habit of scoring about 30% of them. That is definitely true: I have a video from then and James Richardson says so.

 

Siniša Mihajlović is where it's at for Serie A free kick takers of the late 90s.

 

:thup:

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