Guest neesy111 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Was denilson really on 80k? Well if the total wage bill was 111M in 09-10 then it wouldn't be a surprise. Their wage bill is massive (though obviously still only fourth in the Premier League). You can pick any name you like. Arsenal pay do contracts on the net income they get (after tax). Because they had to give every player a payrise when the 50% tax rate came in. Sorry neesy, genuine here, I don't understand. Are they the only club that do that? If so, surely that would be even more likely to attract players? Basically the 40% to 50% meant they had a big increase in their wage bill last season. As they had to pay their players more to have the same take home pay. Different clubs do it differently, apparently arsenal did the trust funds stuff which Rangers are in trouble with a few years back. The English income tax is far higher than those in Spain, so we in this country have to pay more so they are earning the same (take home) pay. Arshavin commented when he arrived he was on less money because of the English tax rate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 They still have large salary's to pay, and a stadium to service. I dont believe they have the amount of money that you perceive they might. But that's part of the point. They've got a vast wage bill (111M in 09/10, dwarfing ours for example) but for years and years have been held up as paragons of financial virtue because it's still low relative to their turnover. THEY HAVE A LOT OF MONEY. I am well aware they are in rude financial health. But the suggestion that he only likes to spend a bit of money, on some half decent players seems daft. Surely there must be constraints other than stubbornness that hinder him. Not likely. Just follow his managerial career. I dont think his dealings in japan and french football are comparable to the financial might of arsenal. Yes he has a tendency to opt for youth, but surely someone of his experience would be acutely aware to the need to spend money, in his current predicament. I wont cite stubbornness. So given that the accounts show that they are in rude financial health ("financial might"), what do you think is happening? Are the board planning to siphon money off? If they don't trust Wenger with the money, why don't they fire him and get in someone they do trust? If the money's being withheld, why doesn't he resign himself (if you won't cite stubbornness)? http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2011/10/arsenals-finances-21-questions.html Im not capable of answering those questions, as i dont know enough about the specifics or the inner workings of arsenal. Would % of profit paid out to shareholders be viewable on their public accounts? Likewise the retained earnings? Honestly kingshola, I think it doesn't really matter, given that we're discussing Wenger's position. I think he's been given enough money to sort things out, as the wage bill suggests. This summer he bought Andre Santos, Oxlade-etc, Joel Campbell, Mertesacker, Benayoun, Thomas Eisfeld, Arteta, Gervinho, Park Chu-Young and Carl Jenkinson. He spent a lot, and I know they had a lot of injuries, yet he still had to get in Henry on loan. And they still look worse. I think it's fair to suggest that he was stubborn about some longstanding issues, then he either realised that he was now in deep shit or someone made him realise. They brought in loads of players, who struggled to gel/got injured. I've heard Arsenal fans say that Spurs are only looking better because their players have been together longer. Well I agree, but Wenger has to take some of the blame for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Sacking him would be daft after all he's done for them. They probably do need to move on though, so they should be asking Wenger to find them his replacement this summer. Dunno if he'd be up for that mind, but it's still what I believe we should have done with SBR. He's already said Stojkovic is the man hasn't he? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 They've won nothing since this man retired have they? http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Rj1rL1lHqLI/TPPGweoP7qI/AAAAAAAAACk/G3l06KlmRPo/s320/_39634661_bergkamp33g.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 was he lucky with inheriting the famous back line and unearthing some gems early on? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 was he lucky with inheriting the famous back line and unearthing some gems early on? It set-up a foundation for his success which after 2004 he hasn't been able to get back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Wenger has lost his way at Arsenal but is still a quality manager. Would love to see him move into the England job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roy the Irish Magpie Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Wenger is becoming more of joke as the seasons pass by now. He either needs to call it a day or start getting his act together and find the balls to get some decent transfer funds off the chairman so he can get some decent players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 was he lucky with inheriting the famous back line and unearthing some gems early on? It set-up a foundation for his success which after 2004 he hasn't been able to get back. He had a fantastic foundation to build his free-flowing attacking football from. In the process, it instilled the winners' attitude into the likes of Viera, Henry, Bergkamp etc and created a seamless continuation of success. Since those sort of players leaving, his 'pillar' has been the likes of Fabregas who pushed for a move back to Barca for about 57 consecutive transfer windows, and other such bailers and pussies who wouldn't take the blame for the team's failings. Wenger seemingly being unwilling to see failings of players or the team/squad in general has obviously aided this completely opposite cycle to what caused them to become such a strong outfit in the PL and Europe before. IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Can't compete with Gazprom and Oil states. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 In a lot of ways he reminds me of Cruyff, somebody that got a great thing going but has been unable to evolve and adapt with the times after his successful cycle tapered off, in no small part due to subborness to surrender some of his principles. Watching Arsenal play nowadays always strikes me how tactically naive they are in some phases of play, even chaotic. Closing down, in particular, they are particularly bad at (a lot of the squad lacks the workrate to do it - or are ordered not to do it -, plus they tend to lose a lot of shape when they haphazardly go at it). Nowadays football is tactically more stringent than it used to be 10 years ago, and he has never wanted to bring that kind of order to his side because I think he does believe it goes against the freedom of his flair players and he didn't need it back in the time when Henry, Pires and Bergkamp just tore stuff up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Not been spending the money they need to compete at the very top. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 In a lot of ways he reminds me of Cruyff, somebody that got a great thing going but has been unable to evolve and adapt with the times after his successful cycle tapered off, in no small part due to subborness to surrender some of his principles. Watching Arsenal play nowadays always strikes me how tactically naive they are in some phases of play, even chaotic. Closing down, in particular, they are particularly bad at (a lot of the squad lacks the workrate to do it - or are ordered not to do it -, plus they tend to lose a lot of shape when they haphazardly go at it). Nowadays football is tactically more stringent than it used to be 10 years ago, and he has never wanted to bring that kind of order to his side because I think he does believe it goes against the freedom of his flair players and he didn't need it back in the time when Henry, Pires and Bergkamp just tore stuff up. The stats tell him not to coach those things. I'm guessing. He loves stats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 In a lot of ways he reminds me of Cruyff, somebody that got a great thing going but has been unable to evolve and adapt with the times after his successful cycle tapered off, in no small part due to subborness to surrender some of his principles. Watching Arsenal play nowadays always strikes me how tactically naive they are in some phases of play, even chaotic. Closing down, in particular, they are particularly bad at (a lot of the squad lacks the workrate to do it - or are ordered not to do it -, plus they tend to lose a lot of shape when they haphazardly go at it). Nowadays football is tactically more stringent than it used to be 10 years ago, and he has never wanted to bring that kind of order to his side because I think he does believe it goes against the freedom of his flair players and he didn't need it back in the time when Henry, Pires and Bergkamp just tore stuff up. Good post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/3933/ronniearse.jpg and furthermore http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/138/arsearse.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Too many supporters a) have short memories and b) think that the solution to a problem is to sack the manager. Financially, they've been squeezed out from the top players by Man City, Chelsea, Man U, Barca and Real. That's what's happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Too many supporters a) have short memories and b) think that the solution to a problem is to sack the manager. Financially, they've been squeezed out from the top players by Man City, Chelsea, Man U, Barca and Real. That's what's happened. It hasn't helped, but to lay arsenals problems down to just that is naive to say the least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Too many supporters a) have short memories and b) think that the solution to a problem is to sack the manager. Financially, they've been squeezed out from the top players by Man City, Chelsea, Man U, Barca and Real. That's what's happened. It hasn't helped, but to lay arsenals problems down to just that is naive to say the least. Yup. It's not like the decline has just started either. It's been on the cards for a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Too many supporters a) have short memories and b) think that the solution to a problem is to sack the manager. Financially, they've been squeezed out from the top players by Man City, Chelsea, Man U, Barca and Real. That's what's happened. Can't say for sure as an outsider but every indication I've seen is that that's not the case. Believe Arsenal could have a vastly better squad if Wenger had spent really pretty piffling money on certain types of players, who he seemingly thinks would 'taint the purity' of whatever failed project he thinks he's still pursuing. Maybe the most damning thing I can say about Wenger is that if he had the chance to buy a 26 year old Martin Keown for £3m today, I think he'd sooner be sick. And yet these were the players he completely venerated after spending a couple of years with them and built his success upon, as others have said. Just think how different he's appeared since Ferguson got the better of him a few years back compared to when he first arrived in England. Wrapped in a sleeping bag, on his knees, face twisted and fists beating the ground when they conceded yet another late goal vs. 'the professor' of the 1990s. Said it a long time ago and feel I've been proved right, he should have left years back for his own good. Think he'd have been much better off if he'd got some wind in his hair and started something new somewhere like here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 People do have short memories. George Graham doesn't get the respect he deserves for what he did at Arsenal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 People do have short memories. George Graham doesn't get the respect he deserves for what he did at Arsenal. 17 years is not short. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Well, nor is 8 in football. Arsenal haven't had a longer trophy drought since the 60's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Too many supporters a) have short memories and b) think that the solution to a problem is to sack the manager. Financially, they've been squeezed out from the top players by Man City, Chelsea, Man U, Barca and Real. That's what's happened. It hasn't helped, but to lay arsenals problems down to just that is naive to say the least. I didn't say it was Arsenal's only problem. What we're talking about is what happened after 2005 to create the Arsenal trophy drought. I don't think Wenger turned into a bad manager. The opposition changed. Chelsea created a completely different financial climate, and only Man U and now Man City have been able to keep up with them. A lot of other clubs have struggled to win a trophy. Arsenal are highlighted because they were so successful before. Of the 18 domestic trophies in the last six seasons, 13 have gone to Man U and Chelsea. No-one else has won more than one trophy. Look at the players they've lost to richer clubs - Nasri, Fabregas, Toure, Adebayor, Clichy, Cole. It's like Wenger's only able to develop his side to a certain point and then someone goes. And how many other players have gone to those clubs that previously Arsenal might have signed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Too many supporters a) have short memories and b) think that the solution to a problem is to sack the manager. Financially, they've been squeezed out from the top players by Man City, Chelsea, Man U, Barca and Real. That's what's happened. It hasn't helped, but to lay arsenals problems down to just that is naive to say the least. I didn't say it was Arsenal's only problem. What we're talking about is what happened after 2005 to create the Arsenal trophy drought. I don't think Wenger turned into a bad manager. The opposition changed. Chelsea created a completely different financial climate, and only Man U and now Man City have been able to keep up with them. A lot of other clubs have struggled to win a trophy. Arsenal are highlighted because they were so successful before. Of the 18 domestic trophies in the last six seasons, 13 have gone to Man U and Chelsea. No-one else has won more than one trophy. Look at the players they've lost to richer clubs - Nasri, Fabregas, Toure, Adebayor, Clichy, Cole. It's like Wenger's only able to develop his side to a certain point and then someone goes. And how many other players have gone to those clubs that previously Arsenal might have signed? Well 'that's what's happened' implies differently. Anyway, to go in to it the opposition has changed but it is only a minor factor in what has happened, otherwise you wouldn't see Tottenham where they are now, or hand Birmingham a League Cup. Tottenham have bought well, like other teams including ourselves, Tiote and Cabaye would easily fit in to Arsenal's team, where was Wenger when they were snapped up, or even the likes of Santon, highly rated young fullback who can play both sides, no he's gone for that Santos bloke who is shite, cost more and is a panic buy. Wenger has forced himself in to panic buying, who'd have ever thought that would happen? Same story when going for the German tanker (another panic buy) at the back instead of going for the proven Cahill, young and talented, and people who say Arsenal can't pay the wages so Wenger's hands are tied were shown to be wrong on that one, Cahill didn't want the earth and it was to do with the transfer fee, again 100% controlled by Wenger and not the club. He goes out and buys the likes of Gervinho and Chamerblain while having failing forward/wingers on the books in Walcott, Arshavin etc without offloading them, he sticks with two failed keepers for years making massive blunders and is fuking bloody lucky SirChesney has landed in his lap or everything right now would be 10 times as bad, or he'd have went with Alumina for another 4 seasons. The centre of the park is void of leadership, in fact the whole squad is, someone who could have filled it easily enough, for cheap, Scott Parker, went to their rivals. Parker would have been all over Arsenal if they went for it, instead...Arteta, who is a good player, but consistent, impressionable and gritty he isn't, and that's what's missing. Think Moyes would play Arteta without having protection in the centre? No chance. Arsenal have a great plan A, but don't have the players to pull it off anymore, and plan B doesn't exist because Wenger is so adamant his first policy is spot on and won't change a damn thing. Stubborn doesnt cover it by a long shot. Wenger seems to think he can play his way out of trouble, but he can't his problems on the pitch lie in the heads of his players, as well as his own fans and opposition. Everyone sees Arsenal as a soft touch and should be treated as such, no one respects them apart from RVP, and Arsenal of old has 4-5 players of that quality in the team, which is where you point comes in as he doesn't have them any more, but its his job to replace them. Modric and Bale didn't arrive ready made handed to Spurs on a plate, Arsenal could have afforded and attracted them two at the time and there are many players out there which are the next gen and they are missing out on. Chamberlain will come good, solid player but in this Arsenal team under this Wenger, he'll become a Walcott MKII, there's nothing more than that for him here. Wenger needs to go tough, get some strength, leadership, height and cunning in the team, at the back and in the centre mainly, then the rest of his flair plan will work, until then as soon as pressure is applied apart from Song it all falls apart spectacularly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Post of the thread that TT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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