Yohan Cabaye

[Mole_Toonfan]

Cabaye-Tiote is a solid ass foundation in CM. We'll not lose games because of weakness in that area. It's probably not the best route we can go mind but it's the only combo proven to bring results over the course of a season.

where do you play ben arfa ? surely he's better pushed further up but not as a tsriker ?

 

In the Cazorla/Walcott role coming from the right

because arsenal have that lack of mobility in the middle (which we have when tiote plays).

There's many problems with Tiote. A lack of mobility is not one of them.

it's not ? he's mobile when they have, he's statuesque when we have it. it also drags cabaye further back to get the ball off the defenders as the oppo want us to give it tiote.

 

Nah not really. He's meant to be a DM, where do you want him to run? He often makes the most passes for us when he plays and he always shows for the ball. His issue is not moving the ball quickly enough.

 

Pressuring Tiote into mistakes like Stottie said - is very effective for opponent.

 

 

There's nothing wrong with having 2 CM's sitting pretty deep. The problem is that we don't have another midfielder or forward that wants to come deep and get the ball to link it up. When you have 2 strikers that want to run away from the ball

theres nothing wrong with it, esxpet the playing staff we have don't really lend themselves to it as much as a mobile 4-3-3.

 

Who else plays a genuine 4-3-3? With 3 strikers?

 

We wouldn't be playing with 3 strikers.... Hatem isn't a striker.

 

Besides Liverpool do.

 

Help me here, i saw Sturridge up top for Liverpool on MOTD2 but no other strikers?

 

So, our imaginary 4-3-3 has got 2 strikers and 4 midfielders. 2 players who'll get in the box. HBA running from deep. We haven't got the players for it. We would need better midfielders. It's not the running around that wears out Anita and Cabaye. It's the constant shoulder to shoulder action with bigger, stronger blokes that sap them. Tiote can do it but he's not so good at football. That leaves Sissoko, he can do it. We're too powder puff in midfield to just leave 3 in there. We also don't have the tactical discipline to do it. Would constantly need HBA and Remy to spend too much time around the half way line to be effective as a quick attacking unit.

I loved the last 20 minutes against Fulham but Fulham were utterly, utterly woeful and disinterested. Won't get anywhere near that kind of space against Villa. No where near it. So it will be quick balls forward to avoid the midfield getting caught in possession.

 

Aspas and Sturridge and when Suarez comes back it will be him and Sturridge.

 

Also what running? i don't know if you have noticed but we have been making the other teams run around in the last two games in the main with a midfield 4 of Ben Arfa-Sissoko-Anita-Marveaux and look a lot better defensively.... you know why? because unlike before it actually has intelligence and ability so we keep the ball better but we haven't created much sadly.

 

Getting quite annoyed how powder puff our midfield is supposed to be.... Arsenal dominated Spurs with Ramsey-Rosicky-Cazorla-Wilshere despite Spurs having 3 big blokes in Capoue-Paulinho-Dembele.... why? because they are much better footballers and they moved them about.

 

There are much bigger teams in this league than us who have weaker teams from a physical point of view but they do alright.

 

Everyone talks about how Physicality is such a big issue.... yet one of the most physical players in the league Diame was utterly bossed in the midfield by Anita the other week.... did you see him very often? because i didn't.... why because we actually did what we bloody should and pass through the midfield we have instead of over it.

 

What's wrong with an Anita-Sissoko-Cabaye midfield 3?, they can all defend i really fail to see the issue.  Also despite Tiote supposedly being better defensively ( utter ballcrap btw) i felt a lot safer with Anita in last 2 games than i have with Tiote for more or less 2 years.

 

Pardew's fear tactics are clearly spreading to the fans, what happened to making the opposition play to your game instead playing to theirs?

 

We will never go anywhere with this type of mentality.

[Tooj]

Cabaye-Tiote is a solid ass foundation in CM. We'll not lose games because of weakness in that area. It's probably not the best route we can go mind but it's the only combo proven to bring results over the course of a season.

where do you play ben arfa ? surely he's better pushed further up but not as a tsriker ?

 

In the Cazorla/Walcott role coming from the right

because arsenal have that lack of mobility in the middle (which we have when tiote plays).

There's many problems with Tiote. A lack of mobility is not one of them.

it's not ? he's mobile when they have, he's statuesque when we have it. it also drags cabaye further back to get the ball off the defenders as the oppo want us to give it tiote.

 

Nah not really. He's meant to be a DM, where do you want him to run? He often makes the most passes for us when he plays and he always shows for the ball. His issue is not moving the ball quickly enough.

 

Pressuring Tiote into mistakes like Stottie said - is very effective for opponent.

 

 

There's nothing wrong with having 2 CM's sitting pretty deep. The problem is that we don't have another midfielder or forward that wants to come deep and get the ball to link it up. When you have 2 strikers that want to run away from the ball

theres nothing wrong with it, esxpet the playing staff we have don't really lend themselves to it as much as a mobile 4-3-3.

 

Who else plays a genuine 4-3-3? With 3 strikers?

 

We wouldn't be playing with 3 strikers.... Hatem isn't a striker.

 

Besides Liverpool do.

 

Help me here, i saw Sturridge up top for Liverpool on MOTD2 but no other strikers?

 

So, our imaginary 4-3-3 has got 2 strikers and 4 midfielders. 2 players who'll get in the box. HBA running from deep. We haven't got the players for it. We would need better midfielders. It's not the running around that wears out Anita and Cabaye. It's the constant shoulder to shoulder action with bigger, stronger blokes that sap them. Tiote can do it but he's not so good at football. That leaves Sissoko, he can do it. We're too powder puff in midfield to just leave 3 in there. We also don't have the tactical discipline to do it. Would constantly need HBA and Remy to spend too much time around the half way line to be effective as a quick attacking unit.

I loved the last 20 minutes against Fulham but Fulham were utterly, utterly woeful and disinterested. Won't get anywhere near that kind of space against Villa. No where near it. So it will be quick balls forward to avoid the midfield getting caught in possession.

 

Aspas and Sturridge and when Suarez comes back it will be him and Sturridge.

 

Also what running? i don't know if you have noticed but we have been making the other teams run around in the last two games in the main with a midfield 4 of Ben Arfa-Sissoko-Anita-Marveaux and look a lot better defensively.... you know why? because unlike before it actually has intelligence and ability so we keep the ball better but we haven't created much sadly.

 

Getting quite annoyed how powder puff our midfield is supposed to be.... Arsenal dominated Spurs with Ramsey-Rosicky-Cazorla-Wilshere despite Spurs having 3 big blokes in Capoue-Paulinho-Dembele.... why? because they are much better footballers and they moved them about.

 

There are much bigger teams in this league than us who have weaker teams from a physical point of view but they do alright.

 

Everyone talks about how Physicality is such a big issue.... yet one of the most physical players in the league Diame was utterly bossed in the midfield by Anita the other week.... did you see him very often? because i didn't.... why because we actually did what we bloody should and pass through the midfield we have instead of over it.

 

What's wrong with an Anita-Sissoko-Cabaye midfield 3?, they can all defend i really fail to see the issue.  Also despite Tiote supposedly being better defensively ( utter ballcrap btw) i felt a lot safer with Anita in last 2 games than i have with Tiote for more or less 2 years.

 

Pardew's fear tactics are clearly spreading to the fans, what happened to making the opposition play to your game instead playing to theirs?

 

We will never go anywhere with this type of mentality.

 

Excellent post.

[Wullie]

[The College Dropout]

WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. Mole.

 

West Ham/Fulham gladly sat back and both came for the draw. There's not much difference between the last minute goal against Fulham last season, compared to this seasons. Neither West Ham/Fulham came to win the match. I'm not crediting our midfield, they haven't put in great performances. Fulham especially largely let Anita and co. play.

 

 

Arsenal played 4 players in central areas against Spurs to outnumber them in midfield. It's not a case of Arsenal out-playing Spurs man for man. And even then possession was even. 2 of Spurs 3 midfielders are new to the division too. Can't draw anything conclusive in that match about the central midfield except that Cazorla provides overloads in the middle of the pitch. If you're going to say it was 3v3 and Arsenal's 3 outplayed the Spurs 3 that would be a lie. 4-3-1-2 would work a treat for us I reckon.

 

I think those 3 in midfield could work fine. But i'm not sold on Anita being able to compete with physical sides that want to get it cracking. Not 1 point away from home Sam Ham or the powder puffs at Fulham.

[Mole_Toonfan]

I don't care if Possession was even.... Arsenal clearly created the most of the chances... Chesney hardly had a thing to do all game and Lloris kept the score respectful.

 

In any case fact of the matter is.... the midfield we have played the last 2 games played a lot better than any midfield involving Jonas and Tiote since we finished 5th that is the entire point.

 

What is wrong with a front 6 of Anita-Sissoko-Cabaye Remy-Cisse-Ben Arfa? which is the entire premise of the post.

 

If we start playing more physical players over more talented players just because we are scared of what the opposition can do we will be chucking away points for fun again.

 

There is clearly nothing wrong with that set up and its not going effect us so negatively that we have to make measures to help defensively.

 

 

[Guest neesy111]

Mole. 

[Kanj]

I don't care if Possession was even.... Arsenal clearly created the most of the chances... Chesney hardly had a thing to do all game and Lloris kept the score respectful.

 

In any case fact of the matter is.... the midfield we have played the last 2 games played a lot better than any midfield involving Jonas and Tiote since we finished 5th that is the entire point.

 

What is wrong with a front 6 of Anita-Sissoko-Cabaye Remy-Cisse-Ben Arfa? which is the entire premise of the post.

 

If we start playing more physical players over more talented players just because we are scared of what the opposition can do we will be chucking away points for fun again.

 

There is clearly nothing wrong with that set up and its not going effect us so negatively that we have to make measures to help defensively.

 

 

 

Two great posts Mole. Essentially saying play our game with our most talented players and we'll always be within range of getting a result.

[Mole_Toonfan]

I can't say that for definite tbf.... because there are better teams with better players than us.

 

But at least impose ourself on the opposition, play our game and put teams under pressure and see how far it takes us.

 

Hell look at how Hull and Cardiff went into playing Man City and it was quite obvious that Man City didn't like it they were uncomfortable.

 

Look at Liverpool vs Man Utd for example, they didn't go into it thinking negatively they went for it from the start and defended when they had to.

 

Would see a marked improvement with a change of mentality more than anything else, sadly we have a manager who is scared of his own shadow.

[Kanj]

obviously its not definite and obviously better teams with better players and manager, etc. but what I'm agreeing with is that how our manager should be playing with this team. Imposing one's game is the way to play football, not being reactive and defeatist like last season.

[Weezertron]

A lot of over thinking for me. Just hoy our best players on the pitch no matter who the opposition is. We'll lose sometimes, but we'll pick up enough to be atleast safe, and we might even have fun watching.

[TRon]

WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. Mole.

 

West Ham/Fulham gladly sat back and both came for the draw. There's not much difference between the last minute goal against Fulham last season, compared to this seasons. Neither West Ham/Fulham came to win the match. I'm not crediting our midfield, they haven't put in great performances. Fulham especially largely let Anita and co. play.

 

 

Arsenal played 4 players in central areas against Spurs to outnumber them in midfield. It's not a case of Arsenal out-playing Spurs man for man. And even then possession was even. 2 of Spurs 3 midfielders are new to the division too. Can't draw anything conclusive in that match about the central midfield except that Cazorla provides overloads in the middle of the pitch. If you're going to say it was 3v3 and Arsenal's 3 outplayed the Spurs 3 that would be a lie. 4-3-1-2 would work a treat for us I reckon.

 

I think those 3 in midfield could work fine. But i'm not sold on Anita being able to compete with physical sides that want to get it cracking. Not 1 point away from home Sam Ham or the powder puffs at Fulham.

 

If West Ham had the players to boss us physically in midfield, then why wouldn't they do it instead of sitting back? It doesn't make any sense.

 

 

[KaKa]

I long for a manager that knows how to set us up the right way, whatever that may be, just so we wouldn't have to discuss this all the time.

 

It's the complete ncompetence of the manager that continues to drive us to do it though.

 

Its depressing, especially because every idea on here seems far more feasible than the trash he serves up every weekend.

 

Sad 

 

 

[Vinny Green Balls]

I can't say that for definite tbf.... because there are better teams with better players than us.

 

But at least impose ourself on the opposition, play our game and put teams under pressure and see how far it takes us.

 

Hell look at how Hull and Cardiff went into playing Man City and it was quite obvious that Man City didn't like it they were uncomfortable.

 

Look at Liverpool vs Man Utd for example, they didn't go into it thinking negatively they went for it from the start and defended when they had to.

 

Would see a marked improvement with a change of mentality more than anything else, sadly we have a manager who is scared of his own shadow.

 

Well said, Mole.  It really is that simple.  It's not like we have a squad full of Championship level players, but he sets us up like nicking a goal against the likes of Norwich would be a major giant-slaying scalp.

[Guest bimpy474]

Fantastic posts Mole. I love you 

 

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4455138/dr-evil-aburr-o.gif

[The College Dropout]

Do you not remember Sam Allardyce? They have a shit away record in general.

 

I'm not totally disagreeing with what you're saying Mole. As of now I would go with that line-up maybe Gouff for Cisse. 

 

But you can't use these last games as a great example of our passing midfield dominating. Fulham sat back and let us play, rarely pressing our CM's and we struggled to create chances for the vast majority of the game.

 

Then there's the Spurs/Arsenal fallacy.  Their most creative player was virtually a free AM with space and time to pik through balls. Arsenal overloaded Spurs in central midfield and coped with the wide threat. That's it. It wasn't a case of Arsenal's 3 ball players dominating the 3 big Spurs lads. It was 4v3 most of the time with the best of the lot the extra/free man.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Do you not remember Sam Allardyce? They have a s*** away record in general.

 

I'm not totally disagreeing with what you're saying Mole. As of now I would go with that line-up maybe Gouff for Cisse. 

 

But you can't use these last games as a great example of our passing midfield dominating. Fulham sat back and let us play, rarely pressing our CM's and we struggled to create chances for the vast majority of the game.

 

Then there's the Spurs/Arsenal fallacy.  Their most creative player was virtually a free AM with space and time to pik through balls. Arsenal overloaded Spurs in central midfield and coped with the wide threat. That's it. It wasn't a case of Arsenal's 3 ball players dominating the 3 big Spurs lads. It was 4v3 most of the time with the best of the lot the extra/free man.

 

Not saying that but surely we would have much better chance of winning more games playing this way?

[The College Dropout]

I was happy we where knocking it about but it was largely ineffective tbh. It's a start.

[alexf]

a midfield of marv-sissoko-anita-ben arfa are going to keep the ball better to be fair. Unfortunately that's blatantly not going to be a common line up I fear. Jonas and Tiote are almost guaranteed starters under current management.

[Kanj]

I personally think Anita is making a massive case to keep his starting position.

[Mole_Toonfan]

I was happy we where knocking it about but it was largely ineffective tbh. It's a start.

 

Do agree.... the main reason i think it was ineffective was the strikers offering no movement, the more Remy plays the more we create basically.

[Kanj]

I was happy we where knocking it about but it was largely ineffective tbh. It's a start.

 

Do agree.... the main reason i think it was ineffective was the strikers offering no movement, the more Remy plays the more we create basically.

 

Was so refreshing to see him come to the ball, collect, lay off or turn and do something meaningful with the ball - be it run at a defender, gather some space and switch play (Ben Arfa's goal). And honestly, it's not something drastic either - it was simple football but transformed us. Sort of telling how dire our strikers have become at the general play.

 

Remy is a top player too though, none-the-less.

[Dave]

A lot of over thinking for me. Just hoy our best players on the pitch no matter who the opposition is. We'll lose sometimes, but we'll pick up enough to be atleast safe, and we might even have fun watching.

 

This is about where I'm at right now. I don't trust Pardew's tactics and we have some good attacking players, just let them play and see what happens.

 

After the subs against Fulham the lads around me were all saying variations of the same thing: 'fuck it, I just want to see a goal'. The atmosphere in the ground when we started attacking them improved tenfold.

[Gallowgate Toon]

I was happy we where knocking it about but it was largely ineffective tbh. It's a start.

 

Do agree.... the main reason i think it was ineffective was the strikers offering no movement, the more Remy plays the more we create basically.

 

Was so refreshing to see him come to the ball, collect, lay off or turn and do something meaningful with the ball - be it run at a defender, gather some space and switch play (Ben Arfa's goal). And honestly, it's not something drastic either - it was simple football but transformed us. Sort of telling how dire our strikers have become at the general play.

 

Remy is a top player too though, none-the-less.

 

Yeah, he made a huge difference. People obviously focus on his goalscoring for QPR but it's forgotten how much of a good footballer he is technically. You can see why he's been compared to Henry in terms of style, he doesn't seem like an out and out striker, he's happy dropping a little deeper and getting involved, pulls out into the channels, dribbles at opposition etc.

[Ketsbaia]

Surely there was a loud penny drop for Pardew after those subs. Even he must have noticed we were more confident, more menacing and more threatening. Sure enough, the goal came.

 

People like to overcomplicate football but the basics are simple - play attackers and just try to score.

 

I'd love to think Saturday was a turning point but we've been burnt before.

[ATB]

Surely there was a loud penny drop for Pardew after those subs. Even he must have noticed we were more confident, more menacing and more threatening. Sure enough, the goal came.

 

People like to overcomplicate football but the basics are simple - play attackers and just try to score.

 

I'd love to think Saturday was a turning point but we've been burnt before.