Demba Ba (now retired)

[Guest neesy111]

It's amazing how even a good signing can be an excuse to moan.

 

This board is totally cringeworthy for the amount of moaners on it.  Any excuse and they will just moan and moan.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

cant see anything wrong at all with saying it's a good signing if he's joined by another one or two of his ability but not wise if he's the only striker we bring in. that makes sense to me.

 

I know what you mean, [b[i just don't see why everything positive has to have a massive caveat tagged onto the end.[/b]

 

Ba is a good signing, he's better than all our other strikers. Let's judge the other business on its own merits.

 

it doesn't, but it absolutely must be judged with reference to selling a player for 35m and then promising to invest that money into the squad publicly ian, i'm sorry like but it fucking does

 

 

Fair enough. I just think Ba is a good signing and there's no reason to be down on it because he didn't cost £20m.

[The Prophet]

cant see anything wrong at all with saying it's a good signing if he's joined by another one or two of his ability but not wise if he's the only striker we bring in. that makes sense to me.

 

I know what you mean, [b[i just don't see why everything positive has to have a massive caveat tagged onto the end.[/b]

 

Ba is a good signing, he's better than all our other strikers. Let's judge the other business on its own merits.

 

it doesn't, but it absolutely must be judged with reference to selling a player for 35m and then promising to invest that money into the squad publicly ian, i'm sorry like but it f***ing does

 

 

Fair enough. I just think Ba is a good signing and there's no reason to be down on it because he didn't cost £20m.

 

Agreed

[Rons]

#9?

 

Don't think so, whoever we bring in as the "big name striker" (from one of the European leagues) will get it imo (maybe Erdinç).

 

I think that Ba is more profiled than Erding.

[mrmojorisin75]

At least he's a pretty good one. Said it yesterday but I'll repeat it: signing a top quality forward was always going to be the biggest challenge because the best ones are at or being chased by top clubs. People will moan about Erdinc just like they are moaning about Ba, but there's not many who are coming up with realistic alternatives.

 

that's totally fair enough, then they should go the other route and invest in a Whickham for the future - someone who might cost a bit but might turn out great

 

the alternative is chasing gameiro's and then the club sitting back on 1st september and saying "we tried but no-one wanted to come"

 

if we can't buy very players then let's buy one's we can make very good players at least ffs

[mrmojorisin75]

cant see anything wrong at all with saying it's a good signing if he's joined by another one or two of his ability but not wise if he's the only striker we bring in. that makes sense to me.

 

I know what you mean, [b[i just don't see why everything positive has to have a massive caveat tagged onto the end.[/b]

 

Ba is a good signing, he's better than all our other strikers. Let's judge the other business on its own merits.

 

it doesn't, but it absolutely must be judged with reference to selling a player for 35m and then promising to invest that money into the squad publicly ian, i'm sorry like but it fucking does

 

 

Fair enough. I just think Ba is a good signing and there's no reason to be down on it because he didn't cost £20m.

 

aaaaaargh which part of "criticising the Ba deal is stupid 'cause it makes good sense on every level" is me being down on the ba signing?

[Dr Venkman]

cant see anything wrong at all with saying it's a good signing if he's joined by another one or two of his ability but not wise if he's the only striker we bring in. that makes sense to me.

 

I know what you mean, I just don't see why everything positive has to have a massive caveat tagged onto the end.

 

i shouldnt even have to answer that, we've been let down so many times by these lot it's natural to temper enthusiasm at this point

 

Ba is a good signing, he's better than all our other strikers. Let's judge the other business on its own merits.

 

well, no. I'll judge the squad as a whole on the first day of the season. If Ba is accompanied by other strikers of his quality he's a good signing, if he's not it's a bad signing because they THINK its enough and it's another signing made for financial reasons first and football second.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

At least he's a pretty good one. Said it yesterday but I'll repeat it: signing a top quality forward was always going to be the biggest challenge because the best ones are at or being chased by top clubs. People will moan about Erdinc just like they are moaning about Ba, but there's not many who are coming up with realistic alternatives.

 

that's totally fair enough, then they should go the other route and invest in a Whickham for the future - someone who might cost a bit but might turn out great

 

the alternative is chasing gameiro's and then the club sitting back on 1st september and saying "we tried but no-one wanted to come"

 

if we can't buy very players then let's buy one's we can make very good players at least ffs

 

They haven't done that though, they done exactly the opposite. They got the pursuit of Gamerio out of the way very early, leaving plenty of time for other targets. One of which they've just got for free.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

cant see anything wrong at all with saying it's a good signing if he's joined by another one or two of his ability but not wise if he's the only striker we bring in. that makes sense to me.

 

I know what you mean, [b[i just don't see why everything positive has to have a massive caveat tagged onto the end.[/b]

 

Ba is a good signing, he's better than all our other strikers. Let's judge the other business on its own merits.

 

it doesn't, but it absolutely must be judged with reference to selling a player for 35m and then promising to invest that money into the squad publicly ian, i'm sorry like but it fucking does

 

 

Fair enough. I just think Ba is a good signing and there's no reason to be down on it because he didn't cost £20m.

 

aaaaaargh which part of "criticising the Ba deal is stupid 'cause it makes good sense on every level" is me being down on the ba signing?

 

Sorry, I didn't see you say that and I wasn't really talking about you solely anyway.

 

My personal view is that the Ba deal is a good deal. It won't become a bad deal even if we fail to make other signings. That's it really.

[Dr Venkman]

the way i look at it of we bring ba and erdinc and that's it in it's almost certainly an upgrade on what we have but it's worrying for a few reasons.

 

1. Ba's knee

2. Erdinc is somewhat out of form and a confidence player by some accounts

3. It looks likely we're going for a 4-3-3 with not many goals likely from midfield. If Ben Arfa isnt the player he was or takes ages to get back to it who's gonna score if Erdinc doesnt settle and Ba's in the treatment room?

 

It would just make me feel more comfortable bringing in a striker who is almost certainly gonna bang quite a few in for us, due to form and fitness records. But they tend to cost money.

 

Or have better options and won't come like Gervinho and Gameiro.

 

we did have a pretty good looking striker here til january like and he cost nowt, a pay rise would have kept him here.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

well, no. I'll judge the squad as a whole on the first day of the season. If Ba is accompanied by other strikers of his quality he's a good signing, if he's not it's a bad signing because they THINK its enough and it's another signing made for financial reasons first and football second.

 

I agree with all that, except the Ba deal should be judged to be good on its own merits. He's an upgrade on our current forwards and he was free.

 

I want other signings too obviously, I just won't go back and re-judge this deal in hindsight.

[gdm]

if Ba wasn't free would he have been a target?

[mrmojorisin75]

At least he's a pretty good one. Said it yesterday but I'll repeat it: signing a top quality forward was always going to be the biggest challenge because the best ones are at or being chased by top clubs. People will moan about Erdinc just like they are moaning about Ba, but there's not many who are coming up with realistic alternatives.

 

that's totally fair enough, then they should go the other route and invest in a Whickham for the future - someone who might cost a bit but might turn out great

 

the alternative is chasing gameiro's and then the club sitting back on 1st september and saying "we tried but no-one wanted to come"

 

if we can't buy very players then let's buy one's we can make very good players at least ffs

 

They haven't done that though, they done exactly the opposite. They got the pursuit of Gamerio out of the way very early, leaving plenty of time for other targets. One of which they've just got for free.

 

well as venkman says we'll see won't we - i'm on the side of fool me once at the moment and we've been fooled more than once by these fucking cowboys in the past and yet still have hope in them

 

ba is a good player and a great deal for the club, if he's our main hope next season i don't consider it good enough when we have 35m in our pockets

[AyeDubbleYoo]

if Ba wasn't free would he have been a target?

 

Nobody knows that.

[Baggio]

the way i look at it of we bring ba and erdinc and that's it in it's almost certainly an upgrade on what we have but it's worrying for a few reasons.

 

1. Ba's knee

2. Erdinc is somewhat out of form and a confidence player by some accounts

3. It looks likely we're going for a 4-3-3 with not many goals likely from midfield. If Ben Arfa isnt the player he was or takes ages to get back to it who's gonna score if Erdinc doesnt settle and Ba's in the treatment room?

 

It would just make me feel more comfortable bringing in a striker who is almost certainly gonna bang quite a few in for us, due to form and fitness records. But they tend to cost money.

 

What if the knee goes bang of the striker that's almost certain to bang them in, like it did with Owen? 

 

Realistically there is only so much you can prepare for and I'd be amazed if we went out and bought 3 strikers, we've also seen this season in the league with Rooney, Drogba and Torres that there are no certainties in front of goal.

 

 

[Dr Venkman]

cant see anything wrong at all with saying it's a good signing if he's joined by another one or two of his ability but not wise if he's the only striker we bring in. that makes sense to me.

 

I know what you mean, [b[i just don't see why everything positive has to have a massive caveat tagged onto the end.[/b]

 

Ba is a good signing, he's better than all our other strikers. Let's judge the other business on its own merits.

 

it doesn't, but it absolutely must be judged with reference to selling a player for 35m and then promising to invest that money into the squad publicly ian, i'm sorry like but it fucking does

 

 

Fair enough. I just think Ba is a good signing and there's no reason to be down on it because he didn't cost £20m.

 

aaaaaargh which part of "criticising the Ba deal is stupid 'cause it makes good sense on every level" is me being down on the ba signing?

 

Sorry, I didn't see you say that and I wasn't really talking about you solely anyway.

 

My personal view is that the Ba deal is a good deal. It won't become a bad deal even if we fail to make other signings. That's it really.

 

i'm very surprised you don't see each individual incoming and outgoing deal as part of a bigger outlook the club has now. signings have to be looked at in this context now imo because we know that

 

1. the club are looking to take advantage of release clauses/free transfers rather than scouting a player and paying what he's worth (this is the reason i dont think we'll get n'zogbia)

 

2. we'll sell for big money even if it immediately hampers us on the pitch

 

Each deal is part of the whole deal imo and it's the whole deal that I care about ultimately.

[TRon]

the way i look at it of we bring ba and erdinc and that's it in it's almost certainly an upgrade on what we have but it's worrying for a few reasons.

 

1. Ba's knee

2. Erdinc is somewhat out of form and a confidence player by some accounts

3. It looks likely we're going for a 4-3-3 with not many goals likely from midfield. If Ben Arfa isnt the player he was or takes ages to get back to it who's gonna score if Erdinc doesnt settle and Ba's in the treatment room?

 

It would just make me feel more comfortable bringing in a striker who is almost certainly gonna bang quite a few in for us, due to form and fitness records. But they tend to cost money.

 

Or have better options and won't come like Gervinho and Gameiro.

 

we did have a pretty good looking striker here til january like and he cost nowt, a pay rise would have kept him here.

 

For all we know Ba might score more than Carroll next season. Then we'll also have Cabaye on board, possibly Matuidi, Nzogbia and maybe a few more. Spurs have sold better players than Carroll and used the money to rebuild their side into a side that is now regularly in Europe. Selling on player for massive money isn't always a disaster.

[gdm]

not saying Ba isn't a good player but just because a deal is good dosn't mean its the right player for the club and it certainly seems we are mainly scouting players we can get a good deal on.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

cant see anything wrong at all with saying it's a good signing if he's joined by another one or two of his ability but not wise if he's the only striker we bring in. that makes sense to me.

 

I know what you mean, [b[i just don't see why everything positive has to have a massive caveat tagged onto the end.[/b]

 

Ba is a good signing, he's better than all our other strikers. Let's judge the other business on its own merits.

 

it doesn't, but it absolutely must be judged with reference to selling a player for 35m and then promising to invest that money into the squad publicly ian, i'm sorry like but it fucking does

 

 

 

The thing is, we could easily go and spend £35m this summer, we could aeasily spend £15m on a striker.

 

I'm sure West Ham would bite our hands off at £15m for Carlton Cole.

 

Its not the amount of money that is spent, its how it is spent. And if £35m goes into a number of £5-10m players, Ba's signing on fee (and likely higher wages than AC was on), Tiote's contract and hopefully Enriques contract thenits money well spent.

 

We could even keep some of it for Jan, or even next summer. It's not a race, and as long as it doesn'g go into MA's pocket no-one should really be complaining that it hasn't gone into the club

[STM]

cant see anything wrong at all with saying it's a good signing if he's joined by another one or two of his ability but not wise if he's the only striker we bring in. that makes sense to me.

 

I know what you mean, [b[i just don't see why everything positive has to have a massive caveat tagged onto the end.[/b]

 

Ba is a good signing, he's better than all our other strikers. Let's judge the other business on its own merits.

 

it doesn't, but it absolutely must be judged with reference to selling a player for 35m and then promising to invest that money into the squad publicly ian, i'm sorry like but it fucking does

 

 

Fair enough. I just think Ba is a good signing and there's no reason to be down on it because he didn't cost £20m.

 

aaaaaargh which part of "criticising the Ba deal is stupid 'cause it makes good sense on every level" is me being down on the ba signing?

 

Sorry, I didn't see you say that and I wasn't really talking about you solely anyway.

 

My personal view is that the Ba deal is a good deal. It won't become a bad deal even if we fail to make other signings. That's it really.

 

i'm very surprised you don't see each individual incoming and outgoing deal as part of a bigger outlook the club has now. signings have to be looked at in this context now imo because we know that

 

1. the club are looking to take advantage of release clauses/free transfers rather than scouting a player and paying what he's worth (this is the reason i dont think we'll get n'zogbia)

 

2. we'll sell for big money even if it immediately hampers us on the pitch

 

Each deal is part of the whole deal imo and it's the whole deal that I care about ultimately.

 

With respect, you are talking shite TBF.

 

I get the whole "big picture" thing but if you can't judge the signing of Demba Ba on whether we sign another striker or not.

 

IF we sign Ba he will judged on his own merits out on the pitch. IF we sign another striker (which i think we will), he will be judged in the same way.

 

If want to preserve collective judgement, save it for the management team on september 1st.

[The Prophet]

In its own right it's a good deal. If we have an unproductive it doesn't become a poor deal, rather it will be a poor window.

[Guest neesy111]

More Ben Arfa's and Tiotes than Michael Owen's and Albert Luque's.

[Dr Venkman]

the way i look at it of we bring ba and erdinc and that's it in it's almost certainly an upgrade on what we have but it's worrying for a few reasons.

 

1. Ba's knee

2. Erdinc is somewhat out of form and a confidence player by some accounts

3. It looks likely we're going for a 4-3-3 with not many goals likely from midfield. If Ben Arfa isnt the player he was or takes ages to get back to it who's gonna score if Erdinc doesnt settle and Ba's in the treatment room?

 

It would just make me feel more comfortable bringing in a striker who is almost certainly gonna bang quite a few in for us, due to form and fitness records. But they tend to cost money.

 

What if the knee goes bang of the striker that's almost certain to bang them in, like it did with Owen? 

 

Realistically there is only so much you can prepare for and I'd be amazed if we went out and bought 3 strikers, we've also seen this season in the league with Rooney, Drogba and Torres that there are no certainties in front of goal.

 

 

 

fair question, but let me ask you one.

 

It's a given that we need to operate the club within reason and not pay out ridiculous wages to everyone like we have in the past, but every signing is a balance between what they'll offer us on the pitch and what we have to pay out as a club.

 

Given our recent signings and the sale of Carroll, does it look to you like the main consideration is money or ability? As far as i'm concerned it's 100% money, and that's from a club who've just received an enormous transfer fee.

 

You have to play the percentages and at the moment we're not playing them in favour of fitness record or ability (Ba, Gosling, Neil Taylor) we're doing it solely based on how much we can save. At some point the attitude has to change if we want to go anywhere.

[Guest Antec]

At least he's a pretty good one. Said it yesterday but I'll repeat it: signing a top quality forward was always going to be the biggest challenge because the best ones are at or being chased by top clubs. People will moan about Erdinc just like they are moaning about Ba, but there's not many who are coming up with realistic alternatives.

 

that's totally fair enough, then they should go the other route and invest in a Whickham for the future - someone who might cost a bit but might turn out great

 

the alternative is chasing gameiro's and then the club sitting back on 1st september and saying "we tried but no-one wanted to come"

 

if we can't buy very players then let's buy one's we can make very good players at least ffs

 

They haven't done that though, they done exactly the opposite. They got the pursuit of Gamerio out of the way very early, leaving plenty of time for other targets. One of which they've just got for free.

 

well as venkman says we'll see won't we - i'm on the side of fool me once at the moment and we've been fooled more than once by these fucking cowboys in the past and yet still have hope in them

 

ba is a good player and a great deal for the club, if he's our main hope next season i don't consider it good enough when we have 35m in our pockets

 

This is the thing I really can't get my head round. It seems like some people just don't mind being fucked over time and time again

[Peder75]

When WH signed him I was surprised that no bigger fish went for him, but I guess it's because of his knee. He impressed me a lot at Hoffenheim and I think he will be an excellent signing for us, as long as nothing happens with his knee. His injury record in the last 4 season has been pretty good though, and it was only 2009/2010 he had some minor injuries.