AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 People need to realise that Pards can't ever say what he really thinks. And also that 99% of managers are the same. Fergie is possibly the only exception and you've seen the results of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I've been dying to see Santon-Colo-Taylor-Debuchy for a fucking year. It's infuriating how good our first team is potentially yet with the depth of an arabian puddle we are always, always struggling. I like it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 People need to realise that Pards can't ever say what he really thinks. And also that 99% of managers are the same. Fergie is possibly the only exception and you've seen the results of that. Yeah a pretty good results Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I get a bit exasperated when people complain about a lack of quality in depth, an unwillingness to splash more cash and other things that are simply the lot of clubs at our stage of development. Someone complained earlier, in effect, that we weren't geared up to challenge for top honours because we didn't have quality backup in every position. Well no, you divvy. We got promoted and now we're trying to build a quality side using the club's own profits so it's going to take a while and in the meantime we'll be vulnerable to injuries and losses of form just like everyone else. When you complain that we didn't just lash out a bit more money and a few bonuses to get Debuchy in the summer, or complain that we can't withstand injuries to Cabaye and Ben Arfa, you might as well just go ahead and complain that we're not in the Champions League. We are a work in progress, obviously. I get annoyed at people rolling their eyes in advance and writing off the transfer window too, when everything the club are doing and everything its personnel are saying indicates we're trying very hard to sign players and have every intention of doing so. So, so much pointless pessimism on here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I get a bit exasperated when people complain about a lack of quality in depth, an unwillingness to splash more cash and other things that are simply the lot of clubs at our stage of development. Someone complained earlier, in effect, that we weren't geared up to challenge for top honours because we didn't have quality backup in every position. Well no, you divvy. We got promoted and now we're trying to build a quality side using the club's own profits so it's going to take a while and in the meantime we'll be vulnerable to injuries and losses of form just like everyone else. When you complain that we didn't just lash out a bit more money and a few bonuses to get Debuchy in the summer, or complain that we can't withstand injuries to Cabaye and Ben Arfa, you might as well just go ahead and complain that we're not in the Champions League. We are a work in progress, obviously. I get annoyed at people rolling their eyes in advance and writing off the transfer window too, when everything the club are doing and everything its personnel are saying indicates we're trying very hard to sign players and have every intention of doing so. So, so much pointless pessimism on here I've moved past anger and into acceptance now. It's easy to fall back on 'we are Newcastle, we should be challenging' for everything, but even if you agree with that you can't just leap from where we are now to that ideal situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I get a bit exasperated when people complain about a lack of quality in depth, an unwillingness to splash more cash and other things that are simply the lot of clubs at our stage of development. Someone complained earlier, in effect, that we weren't geared up to challenge for top honours because we didn't have quality backup in every position. Well no, you divvy. We got promoted and now we're trying to build a quality side using the club's own profits so it's going to take a while and in the meantime we'll be vulnerable to injuries and losses of form just like everyone else. When you complain that we didn't just lash out a bit more money and a few bonuses to get Debuchy in the summer, or complain that we can't withstand injuries to Cabaye and Ben Arfa, you might as well just go ahead and complain that we're not in the Champions League. We are a work in progress, obviously. I get annoyed at people rolling their eyes in advance and writing off the transfer window too, when everything the club are doing and everything its personnel are saying indicates we're trying very hard to sign players and have every intention of doing so. So, so much pointless pessimism on here I've moved past anger and into acceptance now. It's easy to fall back on 'we are Newcastle, we should be challenging' for everything, but even if you agree with that you can't just leap from where we are now to that ideal situation. That may be true but it also says a lot of what the people, that especially you two are supporting the most, has done to us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 What, we were in super shape before Ashley were we? Looking at challenging for the top spots? No, we were an absolute joke and a time bomb waiting to explode in a shitstorm of fire sales and League 1 football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I get a bit exasperated when people complain about a lack of quality in depth, an unwillingness to splash more cash and other things that are simply the lot of clubs at our stage of development. Someone complained earlier, in effect, that we weren't geared up to challenge for top honours because we didn't have quality backup in every position. Well no, you divvy. We got promoted and now we're trying to build a quality side using the club's own profits so it's going to take a while and in the meantime we'll be vulnerable to injuries and losses of form just like everyone else. When you complain that we didn't just lash out a bit more money and a few bonuses to get Debuchy in the summer, or complain that we can't withstand injuries to Cabaye and Ben Arfa, you might as well just go ahead and complain that we're not in the Champions League. We are a work in progress, obviously. I get annoyed at people rolling their eyes in advance and writing off the transfer window too, when everything the club are doing and everything its personnel are saying indicates we're trying very hard to sign players and have every intention of doing so. So, so much pointless pessimism on here I've moved past anger and into acceptance now. It's easy to fall back on 'we are Newcastle, we should be challenging' for everything, but even if you agree with that you can't just leap from where we are now to that ideal situation. I disagree, being said divvy. As I've argued in that earlier post, our current transfer policy coupled with that promised extra 20 million a year by Ashley would see us having a much better squad depth and challenging for CL qualification. The frustrating bit is we are so close yet so far away from this scenario due to Ashley's frugality and lack of ambition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 AC can fuck. right. off. Haven't even got their own stadium. Small timers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 A handy side-effect of relegation was that it dampened the ridiculous expectations from the support. The most we should've been looking at in the last few years, given our size and wealth, should've been aiming to squirm into the Champions League and even that is a bloody tall order. And that's if we run the club really well, or as well as Arsenal and Spurs run theirs. What we had instead was supporters demanding good football and European-qualifying finishes of an absolute nightmare of a club. If the club is run within its means for the next 2 years and if we continue to bring in the calibre of players we are now, we should be able to aspire to that level again. By which I mean top 6 or so, in there with the other clubs of similar means who are all trying to get 4th. It's a cliche to talk about unrealistic expectations with regards Newcastle but it is bloody true when you take into account the way has been run for the last...lots of years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I get a bit exasperated when people complain about a lack of quality in depth, an unwillingness to splash more cash and other things that are simply the lot of clubs at our stage of development. Someone complained earlier, in effect, that we weren't geared up to challenge for top honours because we didn't have quality backup in every position. Well no, you divvy. We got promoted and now we're trying to build a quality side using the club's own profits so it's going to take a while and in the meantime we'll be vulnerable to injuries and losses of form just like everyone else. When you complain that we didn't just lash out a bit more money and a few bonuses to get Debuchy in the summer, or complain that we can't withstand injuries to Cabaye and Ben Arfa, you might as well just go ahead and complain that we're not in the Champions League. We are a work in progress, obviously. I get annoyed at people rolling their eyes in advance and writing off the transfer window too, when everything the club are doing and everything its personnel are saying indicates we're trying very hard to sign players and have every intention of doing so. So, so much pointless pessimism on here I've moved past anger and into acceptance now. It's easy to fall back on 'we are Newcastle, we should be challenging' for everything, but even if you agree with that you can't just leap from where we are now to that ideal situation. I disagree, being said divvy. As I've argued in that earlier post, our current transfer policy coupled with that promised extra 20 million a year by Ashley would see us having a much better squad depth and challenging for CL qualification. The frustrating bit is we are so close yet so far away from this scenario due to Ashley's frugality and lack of ambition. We only got as close as we did last year because of his ambition in the first place. The moment he stops trying to improve the team I will agree with you but that is very obviously not happening Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 We can build and develop all we want, as long as Ashley is not willing to invest like the competition for those CL places do we don't stand a chance of breaking that barrier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 A handy side-effect of relegation was that it dampened the ridiculous expectations from the support. The most we should've been looking at in the last few years, given our size and wealth, should've been aiming to squirm into the Champions League Are you seriously saying Newcastle fans were expecting more than CL qualification? You're way off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I thought Berlusconi was in prison? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I get a bit exasperated when people complain about a lack of quality in depth, an unwillingness to splash more cash and other things that are simply the lot of clubs at our stage of development. Someone complained earlier, in effect, that we weren't geared up to challenge for top honours because we didn't have quality backup in every position. Well no, you divvy. We got promoted and now we're trying to build a quality side using the club's own profits so it's going to take a while and in the meantime we'll be vulnerable to injuries and losses of form just like everyone else. When you complain that we didn't just lash out a bit more money and a few bonuses to get Debuchy in the summer, or complain that we can't withstand injuries to Cabaye and Ben Arfa, you might as well just go ahead and complain that we're not in the Champions League. We are a work in progress, obviously. I get annoyed at people rolling their eyes in advance and writing off the transfer window too, when everything the club are doing and everything its personnel are saying indicates we're trying very hard to sign players and have every intention of doing so. So, so much pointless pessimism on here I've moved past anger and into acceptance now. It's easy to fall back on 'we are Newcastle, we should be challenging' for everything, but even if you agree with that you can't just leap from where we are now to that ideal situation. I disagree, being said divvy. As I've argued in that earlier post, our current transfer policy coupled with that promised extra 20 million a year by Ashley would see us having a much better squad depth and challenging for CL qualification. The frustrating bit is we are so close yet so far away from this scenario due to Ashley's frugality and lack of ambition. We only got as close as we did last year because of his ambition in the first place. The moment he stops trying to improve the team I will agree with you but that is very obviously not happening We could concentrate fully on the Premiership what with not being in Europe and out of the cups early on and were also helped by not having as many injuries as this season tbf. We are slowly but surely improving the team, and for that I am grateful, but things could be so much better if Ashley was willing to invest. As things stand last season was a one off and achieved largely despite Ashley, not thanks to him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Yeah if what you want is Ashley just to chuck money at it, you're going to be (rightly) disappointed. We shouldn't need that and we shouldn't want it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 A handy side-effect of relegation was that it dampened the ridiculous expectations from the support. WTF, how long have you be following NUFC ? Where do these ridiculous Expectations come from ? Have you read this forum for the last few years prior to relegation, there was no expectations beyond what was reasonable for a club of our size, the supporters didn't demand anything we just expected to compete. Then when we were relegated and came back up it was always at the same level of expectation, top half of the table, which is far from "Ridiculous" as you put it. Having seen some of your posts (first time I've seen your user name by the way) I do wonder how long you've actually followed the club or if indeed you do and you've gotten your views for the national press. If you had followed us for a while you would understand the pessimism and the lack of faith is a by product of history of the club and current board's actions over the years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Why shouldn't we? During his tenure we are one of, if not the most frugal club around. I'm not advocating Sounness like spending or putting the club at risk, just sensible investment to allow us to compete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I thought Berlusconi was in prison? Berlusconi always manages to come out on top. Indovina chi vince ancora. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 See the comment from earlier today, on this forum, by Unbelievable! comparing us to clubs challenging for top honours. Didn't have to look very far there, did I? No, I haven't spent the last however many years hallucinating expectations, they do exist. I lived all my life in Newcastle / Gateshead until about 5 years ago and what I've seen around me have been very demanding fans indeed. Rather fickle ones too. If I'm lacking anything it's maybe a sense of the degree to which that separates Newcastle fans from others. Perhaps not by that much. There are more demanding supporters and more moderate supporters I'm sure, and you should feel free to position yourself on that scale where you wish. My impression, I suppose, is an aggregate of all the people I've known, talked to in pubs, read in the Chronicle, blah blah blah, over maybe 20 - 25 years (since being old enough to have an informed opinion). And ever since Robson, I've seen signs that the level of expectation has been too high considering the status (and the state) of the club. Edit...that was to afar obv. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Tbh I agree with anyone who states that the club was run badly and in the wrong vein; and I have strong conviction in that was one the biggest factors in our relegation. However, the handling of Keegan, the name change bollocks and the way Ashley and Llambias (in particular) conduct themselves does not suggest to me as postitve and pragmatic a plan as you suggest they have for this club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Moody Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 http://i.ebayimg.com/t/newcastle-united-home-shirt-DEBUCHY-26-size-LARGE-BNWT-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$(KGrHqVHJFIFC-8UmCImBQ6cV!5tzw~~60_12.JPG hands on hips, pouts on lips Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 See the comment from earlier today, on this forum, by Unbelievable! comparing us to clubs challenging for top honours. Didn't have to look very far there, did I? No, I haven't spent the last however many years hallucinating expectations, they do exist. I lived all my life in Newcastle / Gateshead until about 5 years ago and what I've seen around me have been very demanding fans indeed. Rather fickle ones too. If I'm lacking anything it's maybe a sense of the degree to which that separates Newcastle fans from others. Perhaps not by that much. There are more demanding supporters and more moderate supporters I'm sure, and you should feel free to position yourself on that scale where you wish. My impression, I suppose, is an aggregate of all the people I've known, talked to in pubs, read in the Chronicle, blah blah blah, over maybe 20 - 25 years (since being old enough to have an informed opinion). And ever since Robson, I've seen signs that the level of expectation has been too high considering the status (and the state) of the club. Edit...that was to afar obv. What the flying f***? It's not a sense of entitlement or even unrealistic expectations to state that considering how well our recruits are lately, and based on the fact we are doing things on a shoestring budget, that a relatively small outside investment (in footballing terms obviously) such as the one that was promised by Ashley but hasn't been delivered would go a very long way towards us being able to challenge for those top 6 positions structurally. There is a lot to be admired about the way Ashley has gone about bringing the club back on an even financial footing whilst being able to maintain a good first team. Where we are losing the battle is by not having enough squad depth, something that doesn't require hundreds of millions to fix. I don't think asking for a positive outlay in transfers like most other Premiership clubs is deluded by any means, if you think so you have well and truly bought into this mentality that we somehow should just be glad to be one of the also rans of the Premiership. Personally, I would want us to aim a little bit higher, but each to their own I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I don't think we should aim to be also rans. I don't think we should be surprised or upset if we are though, at least for now. My whole take on this is driven by what I think could happen in the longer term Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gleebals Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Fuck, thought I was reading a santon thead and drifted off into some random argument then! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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