Matt Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Didn't he choose to repay the other loans because they were much more expensive than the terms he would offer himself, and also banks were making noises about wanting repayments in the near future? The credit situation was getting dramatically worse at the time, converting commercial loans to loans to the owner must have been a good move. When you've got so much cash going spare it makes perfect sense to repay every bit of interest bearing debt you can. The bulk of the debt was in the form of long-term notes held by private investors (rather than bank debt) and investors could only demand repayment if the club breached a covenant (not outside the realms of possibility given the direction of the cash position). At 7-8%, they were not cheap, but the revenues from the stadium expansion more than covered the interest cost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Didn't he choose to repay the other loans because they were much more expensive than the terms he would offer himself, and also banks were making noises about wanting repayments in the near future? The credit situation was getting dramatically worse at the time, converting commercial loans to loans to the owner must have been a good move. When you've got so much cash going spare it makes perfect sense to repay every bit of interest bearing debt you can. The bulk of the debt was in the form of long-term notes held by private investors (rather than bank debt) and investors could only demand repayment if the club breached a covenant (not outside the realms of possibility given the direction of the cash position). At 7-8%, they were not cheap, but the revenues from the stadium expansion more than covered the interest cost. OK, I don't remember the situation that clearly but I seem to remember talk of bank debt being called in. Might be wrong. Anyway, probably the bigger issue was the debt was continually growing because of our regular large losses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDT Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Who's checked the classified ads section of the new Sports Direct magazine? Seems like a place he'd advertise the club being for sale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 The club say they cannot compete financially with other clubs but they are obviously partially responsible for this themselves because of how far our commercial revenue has fallen since Ashley bought the club. It is very poor compared to supposedly lesser clubs. Other than the TV money, we seem to be dependent upon cost-cutting and player sales to create revenue. Cost-cutting can only go on for so long. At the very least, there seems to be a severe lack of nous within the club at how to generate revenue through other means. Hopefully the new TV money will help a lot. Not really because our competitors are bringing in similar amounts (apart from the Champions League qualifiers). Stuff like commercial and sponsorship are what separates clubs like Liverpool (whose commercial revenue is vast in comparison despite a largely under-performing team for years) from your bottom half tat. Everton and Liverpool bring in similar gate receipts and TV money but Liverpool's commercial and sponsorship deals blow Everton away. We have to maximise every single revenue stream because you can be damn sure everybody else is trying to. Tbf, Liverpool are going to have an advantage over clubs like ours just due to their successful history. Obviously they are going to attract bigger sponsors than us or Everton because they are a worldwide brand. This is what we were trying to achieve under Hall & Shepherd but we didn't reach the finishing post before they sold to Ashley. Now we aren't even trying to compete, Ashley is obviously happier to earn smaller revenue at less risk. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob 1988 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I saw this video the other day and i thought was worth sharing Very well edited :'( I didn't want to post the direct youtube link because it's against the forums rules. (I don't no how to post a youtube video without it embedding itself on the forum. So that's why i used code ) To Mike Ashley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Our commercial performance is pitiful to be honest. I wonder how much the free advertising we give SD would be worth if the club was run properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 It would seem to me that he can't just provide free advertising to SD without accounting for it in some way. IOW, he has to state a fair valuation for the SD advertising and record it as income to the club. Of course, then he could take that income and use it to reduce the debt owed to him personally. At least that is how I would look at it here in the states. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 It should be fairly easy to get facts about how much debt to Mike Ashley we have. It is - but only up to 30th June 2012. Well that's all we can go on really, what is in the accounts. If he pockets all the new TV money than that's a different matter. In the accounts there is £111 million of loan that is long term - i.e due after more than one year. That has now been there for several years. As at June 2012 he had loaned the club an additional £29 million during 2011 and 2012 to buy players and meet short term cash commitments. This additional amount was short term, repayable within one year.. The accounts show he had already received £11 million back, and we can probably assume he's had the remaining £18 million back by now. He's not going to get his loan back anytime soon if that pattern continues The additional £29m from Ashley came in the 09-10 Championship season and was required because the bank wouldn't allow the club to continue to have a £36m overdraft outside the Prem. Player sales on relegation (and income from previous player sales) covered the revenue fall in the Championship season so there was practically no increase in the net debt, it merely transferred from the bank to Ashley. He certainly didn't put in any money during 2011 and 2012 to buy players. The entire debt to Ashley is in the accounts (and was pre-relegation too) as payable within one year. Whether Ashley regards the £29m as special and will stop using profits to pay off the loan once this is recouped is speculation. Unfortunately for Ashley, I think the unanticipated, forced January spend will have put paid to any plans to pay off any significant amount of the loan last year. You're certainly right though that the way he is running the club, he is going to be unable to pay off much debt anytime soon unless very little of the additional TV revenue gets spent on fees & wages for the foreseeable future, or we pull quite a few more Milners & Carrolls out of the hat. I'm not sure that qualifies for a smiley though. For reference: 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 Ashley Loan00100000111000139800140000129000 Overdraft55281086398735781103890343 Stadium Loan474414508900000 Other Loans17248230366067323619600 Cash at bank and in hand9309930900095150 Net debt6090869679107054150017150385130485129343Debt increase/decrease87713737542963368-19900-1142 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 Overdraft55281086398735781103890343 Repayable within one year10867616752939114056123496140000129000 Repayable in the first to second years775331271030521961650000 Repayable in the second to fifth years1741033231960000 Repayable after five years28659000000 BTW Some people have said that finding out the loans were repayable on change of ownership meant Ashley had to rethink his plans and changed how he was going to run the club. Only the Stadium loan was repayable on change of ownership, which was around £45m. Ashley chose to repay the other loans, and he also chose to move to a system of paying up front for players brought in while receiving payments in instalments for players we sold (part of the reason the net debt rocketed in the first couple of years). He had the money to take on the debt, and it benefited both him and the club. It's pretty obvious he would have paid off the stadium loan regardless of any clause. What accounts are you looking at? As I type this I have in front of me the 2012 accounts of Newcastle United Limited (company number 2529667) and the disclosure of Ashley's debt is exactly as I have described it. £111 million is long term (more than one year) and £18 million is short term (less than one year). It makes me wonder about the veracity of some of the other stuff in your posts but I can't be ars*d to go into it tbh. I've spent too much time arguing about numbers on here over the years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 He is running NUFC on an exit strategy and that has been clear for a while. He will not leave without recouping ALL of his money though so we could well be stuck with the cunt for a good few years yet. What we as fans and the media need to now do is to start putting the pressure on, we basically need to force the fat fuck out. He is a malevolent owner that's for sure! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocker Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 He is running NUFC on an exit strategy and that has been clear for a while. He will not leave without recouping ALL of his money though so we could well be stuck with the cunt for a good few years yet. What we as fans and the media need to now do is to start putting the pressure on, we basically need to force the fat fuck out. He is a malevolent owner that's for sure! I would love for this to happen. Any ideas on how it could be done? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espio Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 He is running NUFC on an exit strategy and that has been clear for a while. He will not leave without recouping ALL of his money though so we could well be stuck with the cunt for a good few years yet. What we as fans and the media need to now do is to start putting the pressure on, we basically need to force the fat fuck out. He is a malevolent owner that's for sure! I would love for this to happen. Any ideas on how it could be done? See Swansea Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Remember when they put an article on .co.uk for anyone interested buying the club to email them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Surprised there has never been a Sports Direct Cup in the off-season. Funny thing is they actually should have. I went to the Emirates cup and it was great, almost a full house on both days the club might have actually made some money instead of our 2bit pre season against none entities Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro111 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 He is running NUFC on an exit strategy and that has been clear for a while. He will not leave without recouping ALL of his money though so we could well be stuck with the cunt for a good few years yet. What we as fans and the media need to now do is to start putting the pressure on, we basically need to force the fat fuck out. He is a malevolent owner that's for sure! I would love for this to happen. Any ideas on how it could be done? Sustained protests home game after home game after home game are the only way to force him out and it wouldn't even take that long in my opinion. Loud, proud constant anti Ashley songs before, during and after each game. Get it all over SSN's and MOTD. You wouldn't even need that many people to be honest just enough to swamp the main entrance pre and post match like the Hull game after Keegan left. We need to make a big enough din to get the the message across. Would be gone within the year if we could pull this off. We just need a General to organise and lead the troops. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 We also need someone with £200m at the very very least who is just prepared to buy us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Try a different strategy, instead of trying to get Ashley out, try and drum up interest from other billionaires/company and convince them to buy us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro111 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 We also need someone with £200m at the very very least who is just prepared to buy us. Don't fuck with me plan man! It's fool proof! Hopefully the protests would be big enough to make him want shot of the club sharpish and take a big loss on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Try a different strategy, instead of trying to get Ashley out, try and drum up interest from other billionaires/company and convince them to buy us. Thought you were going to say 'instead of forcing him out, force him in" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Fucking lies from the club from the representative they've sent. Just a way of getting people to think they are listening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro111 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Fucks sake, we have more than enough proper rajee cunts knocking about the city centre on a match day to make this happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 That boat sailed ages ago Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 We also need someone with £200m at the very very least who is just prepared to buy us. I know you said £200m at the very least, but I honestly think it would need to be someone with many times more than that. Buying the club is one thing, you then have to be able to fund it to a higher level than it is now. Someone who can just about buy the club isn't what we need, it needs to be small change to them. An extreme example I know but I really shudder to think where we'd be if Ashley had sold out to Barry Moat - an enthusiastic owner no doubt but that "pieced together" finance package of his was so small time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty66 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Does whoever wants to buy the club still have to buy a 10 year corporate box ticket or something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 We also need someone with £200m at the very very least who is just prepared to buy us. I know you said £200m at the very least, but I honestly think it would need to be someone with many times more than that. Buying the club is one thing, you then have to be able to fund it to a higher level than it is now. Someone who can just about buy the club isn't what we need, it needs to be small change to them. An extreme example I know but I really shudder to think where we'd be if Ashley had sold out to Barry Moat - an enthusiastic owner no doubt but that "pieced together" finance package of his was so small time. I know that, £200m wouldn't even scratch the surface. Was just saying it's all well and good having the Ashley out campaigns, but without a buyer it's futile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miercoles Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Try a different strategy, instead of trying to get Ashley out, try and drum up interest from other billionaires/company and convince them to buy us. Thought you were going to say 'instead of forcing him out, force him in" Force it in him? Maybe we can get Remy to rape him, that'll send the fat bastard on his way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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