Interpolic Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 We treat the FA Cup and League Cup EXACTLY the same as every other Premier League club. Just sheer coincidence that we get knocked out by significantly inferior opposition (usually at least a division, sometimes 3) every single year having dropped most of our best players. In the last 6 years alone we've seen Portsmouth (twice), Cardiff, Everton, Stoke and Wigan reach FA Cup finals. League Cup we've seen Villa, Birmingham, Cardiff, Swansea, Bradford and Sunderland get to Wembley. And that's without looking at quarter/semi finals, which were full of inferior teams/clubs to us. I was at Stevenage and Brighton (2nd time) and we were quite clearly going through the motions on the day, and that's without the mysterious injuries, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Ian's customary thup to any post that goes against the grain in defence of *insert name here* Well it's pointless making many actual posts. I would say everyone agrees with other posters from time to time like, to be fair to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 That thing about a minimum of 8th btw. It's currently 10th. Two years after finishing 5th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I've always thought it makes it worse, the fact that we do often sign really good players. Alan Pardew managing Hatem Ben Arfa ffs. That's why I've got absolutely no time for the "it's all Ashley's fault" lot... I mean obviously it is, because he hired the horrible cunt, but a trained chimp could get more out of a player like Ben Arfa than Pardew can. When we had Glenn Roeder in charge, and were signing Craig Moore, there was a sense of "the whole fucking lot needs overhauling" but the current situation doesn't. Graham Carr must pull his hair out when he sees what's happened to Yanga-Mbiwa. If he had any hair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Ian's customary thup to any post that goes against the grain in defence of *insert name here* Well it's pointless making many actual posts. I would say everyone agrees with other posters from time to time like, to be fair to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I've always thought it makes it worse, the fact that we do often sign really good players. Alan Pardew managing Hatem Ben Arfa ffs. That's why I've got absolutely no time for the "it's all Ashley's fault" lot... I mean obviously it is, because he hired the horrible cunt, but a trained chimp could get more out of a player like Ben Arfa than Pardew can. When we had Glenn Roeder in charge, and were signing Craig Moore, there was a sense of "the whole fucking lot needs overhauling" but the current situation doesn't. Graham Carr must pull his hair out when he sees what's happened to Yanga-Mbiwa. If he had any hair. I'm a bit like that. I could go on and on about how we should put the money forward for better players. But then, on the odd occasion we break the mould and do so, I'm like... oh yeah... now Pards. If we're stupid/unambitious/'whatever you want to call it' enough to put our trust in Pardew - we should be signing players that are tailored to him, so he can get the best out of them. But then I suppose: quality flair players + a shite manager = 8th. So it works for em. Ashley's got it perfect atm. It's why I can't, for the life of me, understand it when people reckon the guy might get sacked. He is doing the perfect job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I've always thought it makes it worse, the fact that we do often sign really good players. Alan Pardew managing Hatem Ben Arfa ffs. That's why I've got absolutely no time for the "it's all Ashley's fault" lot... I mean obviously it is, because he hired the horrible cunt, but a trained chimp could get more out of a player like Ben Arfa than Pardew can. When we had Glenn Roeder in charge, and were signing Craig Moore, there was a sense of "the whole fucking lot needs overhauling" but the current situation doesn't. Graham Carr must pull his hair out when he sees what's happened to Yanga-Mbiwa. If he had any hair. I'm a bit like that. I could go on and on about how we should put the money forward for better players. But then, on the odd occasion we break the mould and do so, I'm like... oh yeah... now Pards. If we're stupid/unambitious/'whatever you want to call it' enough to put our trust in Pardew - we should be signing players that are tailored to him, so he can get the best out of them. But then I suppose: quality flair players + a shite manager = 8th. So it works for em. Ashley's got it perfect atm. It's why I can't, for the life of me, understand it when people reckon the guy might get sacked. He is doing the perfect job. Are you seriously saying that Ashley has deliberately appointed a bad manager so that we don't finish higher than 8th? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I've always thought it makes it worse, the fact that we do often sign really good players. Alan Pardew managing Hatem Ben Arfa ffs. That's why I've got absolutely no time for the "it's all Ashley's fault" lot... I mean obviously it is, because he hired the horrible cunt, but a trained chimp could get more out of a player like Ben Arfa than Pardew can. When we had Glenn Roeder in charge, and were signing Craig Moore, there was a sense of "the whole fucking lot needs overhauling" but the current situation doesn't. Graham Carr must pull his hair out when he sees what's happened to Yanga-Mbiwa. If he had any hair. I'm a bit like that. I could go on and on about how we should put the money forward for better players. But then, on the odd occasion we break the mould and do so, I'm like... oh yeah... now Pards. If we're stupid/unambitious/'whatever you want to call it' enough to put our trust in Pardew - we should be signing players that are tailored to him, so he can get the best out of them. But then I suppose: quality flair players + a shite manager = 8th. So it works for em. Ashley's got it perfect atm. It's why I can't, for the life of me, understand it when people reckon the guy might get sacked. He is doing the perfect job. Are you seriously saying that Ashley has deliberately appointed a bad manager so that we don't finish higher than 8th? No. I'd be astonished if the guy knew what a good or bad manager was. But he is bound to be delighted with how things are going and therefore wouldn't even consider sacking him. He didn't sack him when we were on the cusp of relegation, never mind in glorious no-man's land like we are now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Plus, off the pitch Pardew has done a solid job of lowering expectations. Another thing I believe Ashley has tried to enforce. Pards is his perfect, regardless of the fact he's an extremely meh manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 At first glance, I get mixed up with Yorkie and Ian's avatars ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Mags Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Two peas in a pod, those guys Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Honestly. We're interested in finishing above 8th but we're dubious about getting into the Europa League, and that "has some validity". Contradict yourself much? He didn't, in the slightest. "We aim to finish at least 8th, however we have mixed feelings about the Europa League" is not contradictory. And yes, having mixed feelings about the Europa League is valid. I think an awful lot of clubs and an awful lot of fans have mixed feelings about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 10th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Brett having RG as his reminds me of Rocker (when he had his RG avatar). Couldn't be further apart as posters and it's always a let down when I realise http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/omgdurr.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Honestly. We're interested in finishing above 8th but we're dubious about getting into the Europa League, and that "has some validity". Contradict yourself much? He didn't, in the slightest. "We aim to finish at least 8th, however we have mixed feelings about the Europa League" is not contradictory. And yes, having mixed feelings about the Europa League is valid. I think an awful lot of clubs and an awful lot of fans have mixed feelings about it. It is contradictory - if we finish higher than 8th (depending on the circumstances in the league that year) then we risk qualifying for the Europa League. Manager and club staff don't want to qualify for the Europa League. See Pardew's "Thank God we're not in the Europa League next season", his regular moaning about the competition's format since, and that fan meeting the other week where they basically said it wasn't worth bothering with. If you think we're pushing to get into a competition that we quite clearly detest then you're daft. If you think we're aiming higher (i.e. Champions League) while not making any permanent signings for 12 months then you're daft. So we are, in effect, creating our own glass ceiling - hovering around in 8th while moaning that the Europa League isn't a good enough competition for us to compete in (having not won anything for 40-odd years). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Honestly. We're interested in finishing above 8th but we're dubious about getting into the Europa League, and that "has some validity". Contradict yourself much? He didn't, in the slightest. "We aim to finish at least 8th, however we have mixed feelings about the Europa League" is not contradictory. And yes, having mixed feelings about the Europa League is valid. I think an awful lot of clubs and an awful lot of fans have mixed feelings about it. Wouldn't want europe to jeopardise our chances of getting into europe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Interpolic wrote: It is contradictory - if we finish higher than 8th (depending on the circumstances in the league that year) then we risk qualifying for the Europa League. Manager and club staff don't want to qualify for the Europa League. See Pardew's "Thank God we're not in the Europa League next season", his regular moaning about the competition's format since, and that fan meeting the other week where they basically said it wasn't worth bothering with. If you think we're pushing to get into a competition that we quite clearly detest then you're daft. If you think we're aiming higher (i.e. Champions League) while not making any permanent signings for 12 months then you're daft. So we are, in effect, creating our own glass ceiling - hovering around in 8th while moaning that the Europa League isn't a good enough competition for us to compete in (having not won anything for 40-odd years). All those are lovely points but I don't care about them right now. There's a thing that happens on this forum where people totally ignore actual posts and instead argue against a related point that annoys them. It's pretty stupid and contributes to debates going round in circles a lot. It's the reason why anybody who offers anything but constant condemnation of Ashley and Pardew gets jumped on, because it's interpreted as a defence of everything they're doing. Let's look at what Cronky actually wrote: "The club and Pardew have come out with various statements which have been interpreted very negatively. Aiming to finish in the top eight every season is seen as not interested in finishing above 8th, whereas it actually means 8th is the minimum." Arguably true. I don't have the wording of those statements to hand, but I certainly don't believe Pardew is under instructions to finish no higher than 8th. I think Pardew personally would rather finish as high as possible. Ashley might not fancy making the investment to guarantee a Europa or CL finish at this point, but.... anyway all of that is irrevant. Is Cronky saying anything contradictory? "Prioritising the league against the cups is seen as not interested in winning a cup, whereas every single club in the Premiership prioritises the league in the same way and for similar reasons." Absolutely true. Resting players for no good reason v Cardiff was absolutely scancalous but, while shit, not trying in the cups in the mistaken belief it'll make a gigantic difference to their league campaign is something that a huge majority of clubs do. "The mixed feelings about the Europa Cup - which I think come as much from Pardew as the Board - have some validity." True. I have mixed feelings about the Europa League, most clubs do and I think most fans do. They know that while it's nice to get into Europe, it can mess with your season particularly if you lack squad depth. Those mixed feelings do have some validity. But because Ashley is hated and distrusted, it all becomes part of some evil masterplan to keep us in exactly the same position that we are now. Damn right. You get some amazingly paranoid speculation on here about Ashley's supposed mission to keep the club down. Anyway. Number of contradictions in Cronky's post: 0 contradictions, because what he didn't say is "Trying to finish in the top 7 yet not wanting to qualify for the Europa league is valid". He said "I think we're probably trying to finish top 8, but having mixed feelings about the Europa league is valid," which is totally totally acceptable and not contradictory in the slightest. I wouldn't have bothered going over it like that but having spent too much time in the past repeatedly explaining simple points to outraged posters who assume I'm defending Ashley and Pardew to the hilt, people not being arsed to read on here irks me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 All those are lovely points but I don't care about them right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 All those are lovely points but I don't care about them right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Honestly. We're interested in finishing above 8th but we're dubious about getting into the Europa League, and that "has some validity". Contradict yourself much? He didn't, in the slightest. "We aim to finish at least 8th, however we have mixed feelings about the Europa League" is not contradictory. And yes, having mixed feelings about the Europa League is valid. I think an awful lot of clubs and an awful lot of fans have mixed feelings about it. Wouldn't want europe to jeopardise our chances of getting into europe. I know it's slightly daft, but that's what 'mixed feelings' are all about. If you asked me whether I'd like us to get into the Europa, I'd say, "Yes, but I'd be a bit worried about our next season in the league". Mixed feelings, ladies and gents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 All those are lovely points but I don't care about them right now. Because they have bugger all to do with Cronky's post, yep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Absolute bollocks. Nee more replies from me, laters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 All those are lovely points but I don't care about them right now. Because they have bugger all to do with Cronky's post, yep. And this has nothing to do with mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Absolute bollocks. Nee more replies from me, laters. Classic flounce-out in the face of being categorically, 100% wrong. Just read people's posts next time ffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Yeah, best not to reply to the attention seeker guys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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