Dogawful Officiating - Dave Coote suspended

[nufcjb]

Anyone have good memories of VAR?

 

2 goals I remember because of VAR, Jonjo away to Sheff Utd and Bruno's 1st against Leicester at SJP. 

 

 

[BlueStar]

Some thoughts from a reddit post which has a fair amount of poorly thought out or simply misinformed nonsense in it (like suggesting yellow cards are referred to VAR unless it's to check if it should have been straight red) although I'm intrigued by the idea of the VAR blokes not knowing what the referee's initial decision is and so not letting that affect them

 

Quote

 

I saw someone say in another thread that the VAR officials should be presented with the footage of the incident in question completely isolated and be asked to make a decision based on that.

They shouldn't be watching the game, they shouldn't know the score, they shouldn't know what the on field decision is, they shouldn't know whether a player is already on a yellow or not.

 

It should be 2 people sat isolated in a room. One systems expert who can control showing the various replays and angles and one VAR official who then makes a decision based on the isolated incident and the VAR officials verdict should be the final verdict. When the verdict is made they should be required to provide a simple explanation i.e number 4 with left leg tripped number 9s right leg, inside the box, penalty blue team, which should then be played to the crowd over the tannoy and/or shown on the screen as text.

 

I thought about it and it seems like a really good idea. It seems the best way to reach the correct decision while removing as much bias as possible because if they are shown in isolation.

-They won't know if they are for/against their mates on field decision.

-They aren't pressured into bottling a big decision as much if they don't know the score.

-They aren't pressured into bottling a second yellow if they might not know the player already has one.

-None of this clear an obvious nonsense and pure focus on making the correct decision based on the rules of the game.

 

 

[Sibierski]

6 minutes ago, nufcjb said:

Anyone have good memories of VAR?

 

2 goals I remember because of VAR, Jonjo away to Sheff Utd and Bruno's 1st against Leicester at SJP. 

 

 

 

All of the penalties Gordon has won for us  Brentford/West Ham two that spring to mind.

[bobbydazzla]

Is watching football better or worse since VAR ?

 

Worse

 

Chain some breezeblocks to VAR, drop it into the ocean above the mariana trench and never let it ruin the game again

 

 

Edited May 16 by bobbydazzla

[Tross]

5 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

Chain some breezeblocks to VAR, drop it into the ocean above the mariana trench and never let it ruin the game again

 

 

 

 

Hear, hear. 

[TheBrownBottle]

Losing the immediacy of a goal takes the joy out of it - and it interferes with the pyramid structure of football.  One of the great things about the game used to be that it was played under the same rules at all levels.  

[TheBrownBottle]

38 minutes ago, DebuchyAndTheBeast said:

 

You could have an extreme case where the linesman is biased towards a team. He could give offsides for all tight offside goals scored against them and not raise his flag for tight offside goals they score. Therefore you'll end up with one team getting all the 50/50 calls.

 

I'm for a change in the offside rule but Wenger's idea ,while favouring the attacker, doesn't solve the current issues with offside rules.

 

I think that there should be a new offside rule where each half of the pitch would be divided into 6-9 rectangular areas. If a defender is anywhere inside one of those areas in his own half, an opposing attacker cannot be offside as long as he is also within the same area, even if he is behind the defender. It wouldn't eliminate tight calls but it would be easier for the linesman to judge compared to the current rule and may even give instant decisions with a semi-automated system. It would also be simpler for defenders compared to Wenger's rule because they would know where to position themselves to set up an offside trap. Games would also be more open and teams which defend close to their own goal would not be able to use the offside trap. The only disadvantages I think would be that a football pitch would end up looking more like an American football pitch and there would be more work for the groundsman when painting the new lines.

You’d still get exactly the same issues - was his toe on or over the line etc - as well as making the penalty area a confusing mass of lines.

 

The game managed to get through 180-odd years without it - I don’t think changing the pitch markings would be necessary at this point. 

[andyc35i]

Hopefully the new offside technology coming in will make decisions quicker and reduce the issues with the tight calls.

 

I still maintain that the only way forward for VAR for everything else is to move it to a challenge system like cricket. Each team gets a review of a decision / non decision and then a panel of officials then vote on the call and majority rules. Football decisions are subjective and this is the only way to try and counter that. Take yesterday’s penalty claim, we ask for a review and then 5 people on the panel say yes or no penalty. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

4 minutes ago, andyc35i said:

Hopefully the new offside technology coming in will make decisions quicker and reduce the issues with the tight calls.

 

I still maintain that the only way forward for VAR for everything else is to move it to a challenge system like cricket. Each team gets a review of a decision / non decision and then a panel of officials then vote on the call and majority rules. Football decisions are subjective and this is the only way to try and counter that. Take yesterday’s penalty claim, we ask for a review and then 5 people on the panel say yes or no penalty. 

 

My problem with challenges is that if the intent of VAR is to reduce mistakes, then why not try to get every decision right? What if the Gordon pen happens after you've used your challenge?

[andyc35i]

1 hour ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

My problem with challenges is that if the intent of VAR is to reduce mistakes, then why not try to get every decision right? What if the Gordon pen happens after you've used your challenge?

Then it gets missed just like yesterday. I don’t think we’ll ever get past that sadly unless a consensus decision system is used instead, even without a challenge system. The issue that we’ve got is that the threshold for a mistake is still subjective so we need to try and get to a place where majority rules - like yesterday would’ve 9 out of 10 people saying penalty, so let’s go with that.

[Andy]

I think Challenges would just turn it even more pantomime than it already is tbh. It would end up almost making the VAR checks an "event" within the match (I can already see the OTT Sky graphics when a challenge is called now), whereas the objective should be to minimise its fanfare and interruption. 

 

 

[Ben]

keep the goal line technology and this new offside automated system but VAR needs to go, its just not good for the game in the UK

[joeyt]

3 hours ago, DebuchyAndTheBeast said:

 

 

I think that there should be a new offside rule where each half of the pitch would be divided into 6-9 rectangular areas. If a defender is anywhere inside one of those areas in his own half, an opposing attacker cannot be offside as long as he is also within the same area, even if he is behind the defender. It wouldn't eliminate tight calls but it would be easier for the linesman to judge compared to the current rule and may even give instant decisions with a semi-automated system. It would also be simpler for defenders compared to Wenger's rule because they would know where to position themselves to set up an offside trap. Games would also be more open and teams which defend close to their own goal would not be able to use the offside trap. The only disadvantages I think would be that a football pitch would end up looking more like an American football pitch and there would be more work for the groundsman when painting the new lines.

 

This is one of most batshit suggestions I've ever seen

[Vedder]

6 minutes ago, Ben said:

keep the goal line technology and this new offside automated system but VAR needs to go, its just not good for the game in the UK

This, I presume the automated offside make a pretty quick decision. It's painful watching the VAR officials take forever with their subjective placement of lines on extremely tight offside calls.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

You’d still get exactly the same issues - was his toe on or over the line etc - as well as making the penalty area a confusing mass of lines.

 

The game managed to get through 180-odd years without it - I don’t think changing the pitch markings would be necessary at this point. 

 

You'd only need one line here, though? A straight line across the pitch where the point on the body of the attacker is nearest his own goal. If there's any overlap with any part of the defender, it's a goal. 

[Ben]

For me, the problem with accuracy is where the ball is coming from, trying to pinpoint the exact moment the ball leaves the passers foot. I'm not sure how fast a player can move frame to frame on a camera but I'm sure I read somewhere it was about 140mm. So saying a player is off be a toe is impossible, unless they have big long fuck off toes

[Dokko]

3mins to make a decision is ruining football (among many other things) they need to have a timed window, and if they cannot make a decision on say 30seconds, then the decision made on the pitch stands.

 

If they can't do that, then they need to scrap it. 

[TheBrownBottle]

2 hours ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

You'd only need one line here, though? A straight line across the pitch where the point on the body of the attacker is nearest his own goal. If there's any overlap with any part of the defender, it's a goal. 

It still wouldn’t resolve the problem - you’d still get marginal calls. 

[Guest]

You'd be a lot less pissed off being pulled up for offside in those circumstances though, than because your nipple is slightly ahead of the defenders backside. 

[Pata]

I've written this same post hundreds of times but here we go again.

 

VAR could be easily fixed but the current process is flawed. On-field ref should have all the power to make all the calls. Video ASSISTANT referee is there to point the ref to the screen if he spots something he thinks might have been a wrong decision or contact was soft. On-field referee goes to the screen and makes the decision based on what he sees which should lead to consistency. On-field referees also have to be humble enough to admit if they didn't see something and just guessed the original decision so to the video screen he goes to confirm (like the Gordon-Amrabat incident).

 

Get rid of all the clear and obvious bullshit, it's a completely unnecessary element that just muddies the waters. On-field referee makes the decisions based on replays. Would probably take less time if the ref just jogs to the screen instantly without VAR guessing what the ref might have seen. Would also get rid of the slightest of contacts being awarded as pens when it's not VAR that undermines the original decision. I actually wouldn't mind if the on-field ref checked every penalty and red card decision from the screen as they are humongous decisions that affect the result massively.

 

Offsides are not subjective and the line has to be drawn somewhere. Daylight or margin of error doesn't really change anything, the line has to be drawn somewhere and there will always be cases where the attacker is offside by 1 cm. Semi-automated offsides should have been there at the first possibility, happy it's coming now even if it is late.

 

I'm available if PGMOL needs help and reads this thread.

 

 

Edited May 16 by Pata

[Maggies]

Referees have also got worse with VAR as they don’t make contentious decisions, as they know VAR will sort it out for them.

 

It should work of for offsides and goal line technology. For offsides, I would make it like “umpires call” in cricket where if it’s a close one then onfield decision stands.

[TheBrownBottle]

20 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

You'd be a lot less pissed off being pulled up for offside in those circumstances though, than because your nipple is slightly ahead of the defenders backside. 

 

 

you’d still have ‘nipple’ moments though - just with lines instead of defenders

[Pata]

4 minutes ago, Maggies said:

Referees have also got worse with VAR as they don’t make contentious decisions, as they know VAR will sort it out for them.

 

Which is ridiculous considering the respect the on-field decision gets from VAR.

[RobsonsWonderland]

The Ref should be allowed one look on video in real time speed from the angle of his choice.

 

Thats all he gets during the actual game so why make him watch ten times in slow mo from every possible angle.

 

 

[Solitude20]

3 hours ago, Ben said:

keep the goal line technology and this new offside automated system but VAR needs to go, its just not good for the game in the UK

 

It’s not just about offside, what about penalties? In the 20-21 season, 125 penalties were given, and 23% of those penalties were given after referring to VAR. Even if you disagree with some of those decisions, I am sure most of those were rightfully given. In the same season, 22 penalty calls were overturned after referring to VAR as the they were deemed too soft. Those are significant numbers, and even if the minority of those calls were wrong, we would be fuming if the ref made a wrong call against us if VAR didn’t exist. Gordon’s penalty wasn’t given last game even after referring to VAR, well that sucked, but it wouldn’t have been given without VAR either. At least such controversial calls are just the exception now, not the norm. 
 

what about handballs or possible red cards? I mean, the hand of god goal wouldn’t have stood if we had VAR, and the examples are too many. I am actually surprised that some are calling to go back to the earlier days when mistakes were a normal part of the sport. From the tip of my head, a significant number of our penalties were given after going back to VAR.