Rod Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 1 hour ago, Cf said: What do you think VAR is? It's literally a human being watching a replay. People talk about "the technology". Apart from the semi-auto offside still to come the rest of it is a human being's opinion having watched a video replay. Something we could have been doing 20+ years ago. If the argument is "Video cameras are awesome" then yes I agree. I disagree with "Using video cameras to re-referee games is awesome". Hence why I said "if used correctly". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miercoles Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 6 hours ago, Sima said: If this practice is historically commonplace in refereeing it's a worry. Doesn't surprise me though as it's sometimes the case as when a contentious free kick/corner has been awarded the referee blows up for a soft foul against the attacking team. There's some academic research out there about home field advantage, and the only conclusive finding is that referees generally favor the home team. The rest of it (crowd gave us energy, etc) is mostly bullshit. Travel fatigue was given a small amount of credence, but really the advantage is in referee bias. Here's a place to start if you're curious: https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/2015/june/home-field-advantage-the-facts-and-the-fiction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 Fairly confident that playing in front of your own fans who are booing you or giving you a hard time must have a negative impact on performance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 (edited) 3 hours ago, Miercoles said: There's some academic research out there about home field advantage, and the only conclusive finding is that referees generally favor the home team. The rest of it (crowd gave us energy, etc) is mostly bullshit. Travel fatigue was given a small amount of credence, but really the advantage is in referee bias. Here's a place to start if you're curious: https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/2015/june/home-field-advantage-the-facts-and-the-fiction Quote Moskowitz and Wertheim were unable to find persuasive evidence that crowds on their own do anything to affect player performance. I have no idea how you could even find concrete evidence for something like this outside the results. At least NFL has the easily tangible thing of not being able to communicate on offense like you would at home which results in false starts, players not hearing the right play call, blown coverages in o-line and inability to audible as easily. Feels weird they don't mention it at all. I obviously can't prove anything but I firmly believe crowd is a bigger factor in home advantage than referee bias. There was research done during the covid empty stadiums period and iirc home advantage wasn't a thing anymore. Also means there wasn't crowd pressure on the referee though. But at least I can say that it’s the crowd that’s the main reason for potential referee bias for the home team. Edited September 18 by Pata Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miercoles Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 Yeah that was part of the details, the referee bias is basically down to crowd pressure. Agreed that it is very difficult to quantify the boost in energy a player might describe due to the crowd noise, especially when they are obviously incentivized to lie and say the fans are the 12th man on the field. No player is gonna be like "Yeah, nah, fuck the fans mate we're the ones kicking the ball" in a post match interview The empty stadium period would be a great way to look at that, but sadly as you say it also cuts the pressure on referees. You'd need an empty stadium with a bunch of hateful machete wielding maniacs screaming into the ref's earpiece. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miercoles Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 3 hours ago, gbandit said: Fairly confident that playing in front of your own fans who are booing you or giving you a hard time must have a negative impact on performance I think that's individual, right? Like some players thrive on being booed, others crumble. The same goes for cheering, some players love it and others feel it as an added pressure. It'd be very interesting to look at individual player performance during empty stadium games, to see if there is any noticeable difference in production without a crowd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 7 minutes ago, Miercoles said: I think that's individual, right? Like some players thrive on being booed, others crumble. The same goes for cheering, some players love it and others feel it as an added pressure. It'd be very interesting to look at individual player performance during empty stadium games, to see if there is any noticeable difference in production without a crowd. I’d say some players thrive on being booed by opposing fans, don’t think many players thrive after being booed by their own fans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 (edited) https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S146902922100131X Some light bed reading. Edited September 18 by Pata Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miercoles Posted September 19 Share Posted September 19 17 hours ago, gbandit said: I’d say some players thrive on being booed by opposing fans, don’t think many players thrive after being booed by their own fans I dunno, Perez celebrated his goals by taking the piss out of our own fans for like a year Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miercoles Posted September 19 Share Posted September 19 16 hours ago, Pata said: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S146902922100131X Some light bed reading. That was really cool, thank you! The study I linked was pre-covid, so it was very interesting to see some current research. Definitely seems to indicate a direct relationship to team performance in addition to the referee bias effect. The data is pretty dramatic in the new study, showing home advantage halved in most categories when the crowd is absent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted Saturday at 18:53 Share Posted Saturday at 18:53 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPL Posted Saturday at 18:55 Share Posted Saturday at 18:55 That and the blatant red card for Martinez. What a joke! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted Saturday at 19:01 Share Posted Saturday at 19:01 Thought the ref was fine in our game btw and found it embarrassing Bruno and Gordon trying to con him so easily by just falling over Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc123 Posted Saturday at 22:23 Share Posted Saturday at 22:23 How did Martinez and Vicario escape VAR? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted Saturday at 23:06 Share Posted Saturday at 23:06 4 hours ago, joeyt said: Thought the ref was fine in our game btw and found it embarrassing Bruno and Gordon trying to con him so easily by just falling over While this is true, it's a bit hard for players when something they've been led to expect a free kick for suddenly stops counting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted Sunday at 00:09 Share Posted Sunday at 00:09 1 hour ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: While this is true, it's a bit hard for players when something they've been led to expect a free kick for suddenly stops counting. Bruno gets that foul every game, so no, it wasn’t embarrassing. Gordon’s. Yes. Awful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted Sunday at 08:27 Share Posted Sunday at 08:27 8 hours ago, Kanji said: Bruno gets that foul every game, so no, it wasn’t embarrassing. Gordon’s. Yes. Awful. Bruno gets away with that foul every game and the referee usually buys it. Looks like they might have clocked on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted Sunday at 19:38 Share Posted Sunday at 19:38 trossard should have been booked just for jumping into the back of a olayer with no possibility or intention of getting the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Butcher Posted 3 hours ago Share Posted 3 hours ago Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted 2 hours ago Share Posted 2 hours ago (edited) That is some power play from Taylor towards a young manager, Arteta does something worse every game, likewise Klopp. Edited 2 hours ago by Pata Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted 1 hour ago Share Posted 1 hour ago Anthony Taylor is such a small minded loser Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted 34 minutes ago Share Posted 34 minutes ago 1 hour ago, Pata said: That is some power play from Taylor towards a young manager, Arteta does something worse every game, likewise Klopp. Probably just doubling down on being stood down after lashing out 14 yellows the other week tbh. Can't stand people not automatically obeying him immediately so he's told the actual ref to send off a manager who's defied him and briefly stepped out of his allocated zone. Ultimate power-trip fanboy and loses more respect every week he pulls this shit, bloke is an utter prick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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