AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Shades of Souness's thoughts on Robert, only phrased about a million times more diplomatically. Some of Hitler's speeches were more diplomatic than Souness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I might be completely wrong here, but I have seen us play good passing football on a number of occasions this season (certainly more than under Hughton). It's not a case of Pardew being a "hoof ball" manager. He just wants to win. We have played direct at times (maybe 60% of the time across all games), but there is a big difference between "hoof" football and working the ball into wide areas and putting crosses in the box. Ben Arfa can still fit into this team no problem, but I agree with Pardew's current decision to drop him. Great post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I don't think Ben Arfa deserves to be in the side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I think Ben Arfa would be a real attacking threat on the right, cutting in, Ba as the short option, maybe for a give and go or threading through to Cisse looking for a ball in behind the CBs. He could cause real problems. Obertan isn't that kind of player. I'm not really sure what kind of player Obertan is but he isn't an incisive passer of the ball that's for sure. I think Obertan isn't prone to lose the ball as much as Ben Arfa but i think the reasons for that a fairly obvious. There must be something not right in training is all i can think of, something Ben Arfa isn't doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I don't think Ben Arfa deserves to be in the side. He hasn't had a change to prove that though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I might be completely wrong here, but I have seen us play good passing football on a number of occasions this season (certainly more than under Hughton). When? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 He's a way better option than Obertan and Taylor's injured. Of course he should be in the team now. I did agree with Taylor starting against Villa though, due to Hatem's poor last couple of games. HBA never looks like he's enjoying himself Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I might be completely wrong here, but I have seen us play good passing football on a number of occasions this season (certainly more than under Hughton). When? Get a grip of yourself man, of course we have played good football this season, the way you are going on you would think we were the new friggin Stoke! It's not just our show pony Ben Arfa that can play football you know, just beacuse he isn't in the team doesn't mean we aren't playing football. Completely baffling me all this "lets blame everyone and everything" for Ben arfa not being in the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I might be completely wrong here, but I have seen us play good passing football on a number of occasions this season (certainly more than under Hughton). When? Get a grip of yourself man, of course we have played good football this season, the way you are going on you would think we were the new friggin Stoke! It's not just our show pony Ben Arfa that can play football you know, just beacuse he isn't in the team doesn't mean we aren't playing football. Completely baffling me all this "lets blame everyone and everything" for Ben arfa not being in the team. Where did I mention Ben Arfa? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The fact that Obertan and Raylor get matches before HBA says a lot! I can`t really be angry this season, but the way Pardew goes about HBA kills me. Most technical gifted player we have, and he does not give him a chance. Yes, he was crap at Brighton and Blackburn, but Obertan get 15+ matches, week in week out. Depressing really. Just to think we have had a player like HBA in our squad, and not give him a fair long spell in the team really boils my piss! Get a grip Pardew! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 For me, the only big error Pardew has made here is his handling of Ben Arfa. Hoofing the ball concedes possession far more than Ben Arfa does and when he has played - despite the odd mistake - he leads to goals. It's really that simple, Ben Arfa = goals. If you stick Santon behind him it would be a lot better. His poor performance at Blackburn was replicated by 10 other players yet he was hauled off at half time. He's our most gifted player, yet I fear this is leading to a sad ending. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The fact that Obertan and Raylor get matches before HBA says a lot! I can`t really be angry this season, but the way Pardew goes about HBA kills me. Most technical gifted player we have, and he does not give him a chance. Yes, he was crap at Brighton and Blackburn, but Obertan get 15+ matches, week in week out. Depressing really. Just to think we have had a player like HBA in our squad, and not give him a fair long spell in the team really boils my p*ss! Get a grip Pardew! Yes Pardew, get a grip!! You have taken this team to within 1 point of a champions league spot, but you are not playing our show pony all the time, doesn't matter that the team is doing great things without him, we demand he plays!! FFS man up will you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 HBA isn't a "show pony" at all, what a stupid phrase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 As long as we keep winning (playing well would be nice too) then I'm not too worried about this situation. Pardew clearly doesn't think Ben Arfa works hard enough off the ball, and though I personally disagree with that assessment the importance the team is more important than any individual. If/when we are crying out for a bit of creativity and can cover his supposed lack of work rate I have no doubt that Ben Arfa will get a look in during the rest of the season. If not, it will take a lot of faith on his part to stick around for next season because I'm unconvinced that he will change his style of play all that much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 HBA isn't a "show pony" at all, what a stupid phrase. Of course he is, he is a "luxury" player that needs a lot of people around him to work their arses off so he can have a free role and do what he needs to do. But you can't run a whole team around 1 player, it just doesn't work. We have got where we are with a magnificent team work ethic. Ben Arfa would be much more suited to a team that can just afford to give him the freedom he needs, which is probably not going to be for a team in the Premiership. Yes he is an amazing talent, but when I watch him, I just don't get the feeling he fits in with what we are trying to do. Yes a class player, but when we are not prepared to run the team around him and ask him to fit in with what we want to do, he looks like he is struggling. I would be with you all and demanding he was playing if we were struggling, but we are having the best season in a long long time, so unfortunately there is no real argument to start him yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The fact that Obertan and Raylor get matches before HBA says a lot! I can`t really be angry this season, but the way Pardew goes about HBA kills me. Most technical gifted player we have, and he does not give him a chance. Yes, he was crap at Brighton and Blackburn, but Obertan get 15+ matches, week in week out. Depressing really. Just to think we have had a player like HBA in our squad, and not give him a fair long spell in the team really boils my p*ss! Get a grip Pardew! Yes Pardew, get a grip!! You have taken this team to within 1 point of a champions league spot, but you are not playing our show pony all the time, doesn't matter that the team is doing great things without him, we demand he plays!! FFS man up will you. Going by your quite frankly pathetic logic, let's not buy players in the summer, let's not eliminate our mistakes, let's not improve the way we play...hell let's not improve the team in anyway at all hey because we are just one point off 4th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShearMagic Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The fact that Obertan and Raylor get matches before HBA says a lot! I can`t really be angry this season, but the way Pardew goes about HBA kills me. Most technical gifted player we have, and he does not give him a chance. Yes, he was crap at Brighton and Blackburn, but Obertan get 15+ matches, week in week out. Depressing really. Just to think we have had a player like HBA in our squad, and not give him a fair long spell in the team really boils my p*ss! Get a grip Pardew! Yes Pardew, get a grip!! You have taken this team to within 1 point of a champions league spot, but you are not playing our show pony all the time, doesn't matter that the team is doing great things without him, we demand he plays!! FFS man up will you. Going by your quite frankly pathetic logic, let's not buy players in the summer, let's not eliminate our mistakes, let's not improve the way we play...hell let's not improve the team in anyway at all hey because we are just one point off 4th. Ben Arfa doesn't improve the way we play. He's not the next Maradona, contrary to popular belief. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The fact that Obertan and Raylor get matches before HBA says a lot! I can`t really be angry this season, but the way Pardew goes about HBA kills me. Most technical gifted player we have, and he does not give him a chance. Yes, he was crap at Brighton and Blackburn, but Obertan get 15+ matches, week in week out. Depressing really. Just to think we have had a player like HBA in our squad, and not give him a fair long spell in the team really boils my p*ss! Get a grip Pardew! Yes Pardew, get a grip!! You have taken this team to within 1 point of a champions league spot, but you are not playing our show pony all the time, doesn't matter that the team is doing great things without him, we demand he plays!! FFS man up will you. Going by your quite frankly pathetic logic, let's not buy players in the summer, let's not eliminate our mistakes, let's not improve the way we play...hell let's not improve the team in anyway at all hey because we are just one point off 4th. that's not my pathetic logic mate, that's your pathetic attempt at twisting my words to make yourself look right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghandis Flip-Flop Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 As plenty of people have said excluding Ben Arfa is fine if the people keeping him out of the team are performing. However a 5 minute cameo at the end of the Blackburn game excepted Obertan has contributed very little whilst on the pitch. Do I even need to start about Shola's ineffectiveness? Yes i'm quite sure he's a handful behind the scenes but what talented player isn't For Christ sake look at the grief Rooney has been giving SAF over the past 12 months or so. It is Pardew's job to get the best out of the personnel he has available to him. He's doing a great job but hard work will only get you so far, genuine skill and talent is needed too. The fact that the Villa game at times was like watching our first 6 months in the championship, where everything positive in attack came down our left will see our results hurt if not rectified soon. In my opinion the best way to sort this is to play Ben Arfa there. Unfortunately it would appear the Pardew doesn't agree. And to the earlier poster If Ben Arfa is a show pony, does that make Obertan a no-show who is pony? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The fact that Obertan and Raylor get matches before HBA says a lot! I can`t really be angry this season, but the way Pardew goes about HBA kills me. Most technical gifted player we have, and he does not give him a chance. Yes, he was crap at Brighton and Blackburn, but Obertan get 15+ matches, week in week out. Depressing really. Just to think we have had a player like HBA in our squad, and not give him a fair long spell in the team really boils my p*ss! Get a grip Pardew! Yes Pardew, get a grip!! You have taken this team to within 1 point of a champions league spot, but you are not playing our show pony all the time, doesn't matter that the team is doing great things without him, we demand he plays!! FFS man up will you. Going by your quite frankly pathetic logic, let's not buy players in the summer, let's not eliminate our mistakes, let's not improve the way we play...hell let's not improve the team in anyway at all hey because we are just one point off 4th. that's not my pathetic logic mate, that's your pathetic attempt at twisting my words to make yourself look right. Well that's all you've been saying for the last few pages. Anytime anyone suggest that Pardew is wrong and should consider how to make the best use of a player that you yourself consider very talented, you come out with the same boring response "oh we're just 1 point off the champ league spot". The implication is clear, you're saying that just because we've done well, we shouldn't try to improve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 As plenty of people have said excluding Ben Arfa is fine if the people keeping him out of the team are performing. However a 5 minute cameo at the end of the Blackburn game excepted Obertan has contributed very little whilst on the pitch. Do I even need to start about Shola's ineffectiveness? Yes i'm quite sure he's a handful behind the scenes but what talented player isn't For Christ sake look at the grief Rooney has been giving SAF over the past 12 months or so. It is Pardew's job to get the best out of the personnel he has available to him. He's doing a great job but hard work will only get you so far, genuine skill and talent is needed too. The fact that the Villa game at times was like watching our first 6 months in the championship, where everything positive in attack came down our left will see our results hurt if not rectified soon. In my opinion the best way to sort this is to play Ben Arfa there. Unfortunately it would appear the Pardew doesn't agree. And to the earlier poster If Ben Arfa is a show pony, does that make Obertan a no-show who is pony? Let me respond on behalf of Reefatoon, "get a grip, Pardew is doing great, we're just one point off a champion league spot" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 HBA isn't a "show pony" at all, what a stupid phrase. Of course he is, he is a "luxury" player that needs a lot of people around him to work their arses off so he can have a free role and do what he needs to do. But you can't run a whole team around 1 player, it just doesn't work. We have got where we are with a magnificent team work ethic. Ben Arfa would be much more suited to a team that can just afford to give him the freedom he needs, which is probably not going to be for a team in the Premiership. Yes he is an amazing talent, but when I watch him, I just don't get the feeling he fits in with what we are trying to do. Yes a class player, but when we are not prepared to run the team around him and ask him to fit in with what we want to do, he looks like he is struggling. I would be with you all and demanding he was playing if we were struggling, but we are having the best season in a long long time, so unfortunately there is no real argument to start him yet. You're wrong there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 HBA isn't a "show pony" at all, what a stupid phrase. Of course he is, he is a "luxury" player that needs a lot of people around him to work their arses off so he can have a free role and do what he needs to do. But you can't run a whole team around 1 player, it just doesn't work. We have got where we are with a magnificent team work ethic. Ben Arfa would be much more suited to a team that can just afford to give him the freedom he needs, which is probably not going to be for a team in the Premiership. Yes he is an amazing talent, but when I watch him, I just don't get the feeling he fits in with what we are trying to do. Yes a class player, but when we are not prepared to run the team around him and ask him to fit in with what we want to do, he looks like he is struggling. I would be with you all and demanding he was playing if we were struggling, but we are having the best season in a long long time, so unfortunately there is no real argument to start him yet. You're wrong there. I do like a reply that is backed up with facts and points to try and add to the discussion. Well done you, you are right you have made me change my mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gleebals Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I would not mind him giving Ben Arfa a hard time if Shola was no where near the football club, let along getting games. It is a massive and very annoying contradiction of terms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The fact that Obertan and Raylor get matches before HBA says a lot! I can`t really be angry this season, but the way Pardew goes about HBA kills me. Most technical gifted player we have, and he does not give him a chance. Yes, he was crap at Brighton and Blackburn, but Obertan get 15+ matches, week in week out. Depressing really. Just to think we have had a player like HBA in our squad, and not give him a fair long spell in the team really boils my p*ss! Get a grip Pardew! Yes Pardew, get a grip!! You have taken this team to within 1 point of a champions league spot, but you are not playing our show pony all the time, doesn't matter that the team is doing great things without him, we demand he plays!! FFS man up will you. Going by your quite frankly pathetic logic, let's not buy players in the summer, let's not eliminate our mistakes, let's not improve the way we play...hell let's not improve the team in anyway at all hey because we are just one point off 4th. that's not my pathetic logic mate, that's your pathetic attempt at twisting my words to make yourself look right. Well that's all you've been saying for the last few pages. Anytime anyone suggest that Pardew is wrong and should consider how to make the best use of a player that you yourself consider very talented, you come out with the same boring response "oh we're just 1 point off the champ league spot". The implication is clear, you're saying that just because we've done well, we shouldn't try to improve. Yes, because it was a valid point when people were trying to change the formation of the team, just so they could have Ben Arfa in the team, that's why i kept bringing it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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