Ronaldo Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Goes back to what I said last week: you can't compare this lot with Bobby's side. They defended from the front and attacked from the midfield. We do neither. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'd be interested to see a diagram of all the positions Ben Arfa was in on the field each time he received the ball. I bet most of them were on the edge of his own box, and this is playing as a wide forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'd be interested to see a diagram of all the positions Ben Arfa was in on the field each time he received the ball. I bet most of them were on the edge of his own box, and this is playing as a wide forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 He's been s*** lately because he's f***ing defending for a full 90 mins so that when he finally gets the ball he's in our own half and shattered He is basically being asked to be a second full-back, or a defensive winger. it is the equiverlent of playing Ameobi as winger.... oh wait! wtf do you want HBA to do, when your team is defending and under the cosh from the opposition, just let HBA run around trying to look busy making no attempt and having no desire to win the ball back? all because " im suppose to be an attacking player" what kind of excuse is that? so players that get played outwide aerent suppose to help out and track back? when the team is under pressure? and dont forget, when he did have the ball today he did jack s*** with it apart losing it from hogging the ball to long, he had team mates beside him waiting, begging for him to make that simple pass to them. What did Laurent Robert do "when your team is defending and under the cosh from the opposition"... f*** all. Even Bobby Robson said it was a bit annoying but what he gave us going forward more than made up for it. Now I'm not for a second suggesting that Ben Arfa should be as lax defending as Robert was, but surely Pardew can find a happy medium in there somewhere? At the moment he is being completely wasted. laurent Robert you use him as an example? Happy medium how? ok you're Alan Pardew, and Danny Simpson is getting smashed, pillaged, over-run by 2 lfc players their winger and left leftback. "Hey dont worry Hatem you just let your 9 outfield teamates run their socks off and get their shorts dirty. but you boy you just stay up there and wait for the ball to come to you because you're so special, like Laurent Robert under Sir bobby" do me a favour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 He's been s*** lately because he's f***ing defending for a full 90 mins so that when he finally gets the ball he's in our own half and shattered He is basically being asked to be a second full-back, or a defensive winger. it is the equiverlent of playing Ameobi as winger.... oh wait! wtf do you want HBA to do, when your team is defending and under the cosh from the opposition, just let HBA run around trying to look busy making no attempt and having no desire to win the ball back? all because " im suppose to be an attacking player" what kind of excuse is that? so players that get played outwide aerent suppose to help out and track back? when the team is under pressure? and dont forget, when he did have the ball today he did jack s*** with it apart losing it from hogging the ball to long, he had team mates beside him waiting, begging for him to make that simple pass to them. What did Laurent Robert do "when your team is defending and under the cosh from the opposition"... f*** all. Even Bobby Robson said it was a bit annoying but what he gave us going forward more than made up for it. Now I'm not for a second suggesting that Ben Arfa should be as lax defending as Robert was, but surely Pardew can find a happy medium in there somewhere? At the moment he is being completely wasted. laurent Robert you use him as an example? Happy medium how? ok you're Alan Pardew, and Danny Simpson is getting smashed, pillaged, over-run by 2 lfc players their left wing leftback. "Hey dont worry Hatem you just let your 9 outfield teamates run their socks off and get their shorts dirty. but you boy you just stay up there and wait for the ball to come to you because you're so special, like Laurent Robert under Sir bobby" do me a favour. Wasn't he meant to be playing as a wide forward? He shouldn't have to be doing any defending at all from that position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 The main problem is that we shouldn´t be playing so deep. Of course Ben Arfa should defend. But then when we get the ball. Keep it! Attack! We just hoof it and everything starts all over again. People doesn´t sees any problems with that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 He's been s*** lately because he's f***ing defending for a full 90 mins so that when he finally gets the ball he's in our own half and shattered He is basically being asked to be a second full-back, or a defensive winger. it is the equiverlent of playing Ameobi as winger.... oh wait! wtf do you want HBA to do, when your team is defending and under the cosh from the opposition, just let HBA run around trying to look busy making no attempt and having no desire to win the ball back? all because " im suppose to be an attacking player" what kind of excuse is that? so players that get played outwide aerent suppose to help out and track back? when the team is under pressure? and dont forget, when he did have the ball today he did jack s*** with it apart losing it from hogging the ball to long, he had team mates beside him waiting, begging for him to make that simple pass to them. What did Laurent Robert do "when your team is defending and under the cosh from the opposition"... f*** all. Even Bobby Robson said it was a bit annoying but what he gave us going forward more than made up for it. Now I'm not for a second suggesting that Ben Arfa should be as lax defending as Robert was, but surely Pardew can find a happy medium in there somewhere? At the moment he is being completely wasted. laurent Robert you use him as an example? Happy medium how? ok you're Alan Pardew, and Danny Simpson is getting smashed, pillaged, over-run by 2 lfc players their left wing leftback. "Hey dont worry Hatem you just let your 9 outfield teamates run their socks off and get their shorts dirty. but you boy you just stay up there and wait for the ball to come to you because you're so special, like Laurent Robert under Sir bobby" do me a favour. We "smash and pillage" their full backs in return. Raheem Sterling has the exact same drawbacks as Ben Arfa does (with a lack of experience to boot). It would help if we pressed from the start and could hold onto the ball for more than 2 passes, like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 He's been s*** lately because he's f***ing defending for a full 90 mins so that when he finally gets the ball he's in our own half and shattered He is basically being asked to be a second full-back, or a defensive winger. it is the equiverlent of playing Ameobi as winger.... oh wait! wtf do you want HBA to do, when your team is defending and under the cosh from the opposition, just let HBA run around trying to look busy making no attempt and having no desire to win the ball back? all because " im suppose to be an attacking player" what kind of excuse is that? so players that get played outwide aerent suppose to help out and track back? when the team is under pressure? and dont forget, when he did have the ball today he did jack s*** with it apart losing it from hogging the ball to long, he had team mates beside him waiting, begging for him to make that simple pass to them. What did Laurent Robert do "when your team is defending and under the cosh from the opposition"... f*** all. Even Bobby Robson said it was a bit annoying but what he gave us going forward more than made up for it. Now I'm not for a second suggesting that Ben Arfa should be as lax defending as Robert was, but surely Pardew can find a happy medium in there somewhere? At the moment he is being completely wasted. laurent Robert you use him as an example? Happy medium how? ok you're Alan Pardew, and Danny Simpson is getting smashed, pillaged, over-run by 2 lfc players their left wing leftback. "Hey dont worry Hatem you just let your 9 outfield teamates run their socks off and get their shorts dirty. but you boy you just stay up there and wait for the ball to come to you because you're so special, like Laurent Robert under Sir bobby" do me a favour. Wasn't he meant to be playing as a wide forward? He shouldn't have to be doing any defending at all from that position. thats so ridiculous, wide forward are not allowed to fall back and defend? that is exactly what they should do when their own team is under the gun. 4-3-3 automatically becomes 4-5-1 when your team need to defend as wide fowards of the front 3 joins the midfield. this is not something pardew invented, trust me. another example, how many times did Demba Ba came back to defend our corners, freekicks etc? he was in our own box and he successfully cut out more balls than our fullbacks. so because he's a striker he shouldn't be near our own penalty box, football is a team game, when you defend you defend as a team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 He's been s*** lately because he's f***ing defending for a full 90 mins so that when he finally gets the ball he's in our own half and shattered He is basically being asked to be a second full-back, or a defensive winger. it is the equiverlent of playing Ameobi as winger.... oh wait! wtf do you want HBA to do, when your team is defending and under the cosh from the opposition, just let HBA run around trying to look busy making no attempt and having no desire to win the ball back? all because " im suppose to be an attacking player" what kind of excuse is that? so players that get played outwide aerent suppose to help out and track back? when the team is under pressure? and dont forget, when he did have the ball today he did jack s*** with it apart losing it from hogging the ball to long, he had team mates beside him waiting, begging for him to make that simple pass to them. What did Laurent Robert do "when your team is defending and under the cosh from the opposition"... f*** all. Even Bobby Robson said it was a bit annoying but what he gave us going forward more than made up for it. Now I'm not for a second suggesting that Ben Arfa should be as lax defending as Robert was, but surely Pardew can find a happy medium in there somewhere? At the moment he is being completely wasted. laurent Robert you use him as an example? Happy medium how? ok you're Alan Pardew, and Danny Simpson is getting smashed, pillaged, over-run by 2 lfc players their left wing leftback. "Hey dont worry Hatem you just let your 9 outfield teamates run their socks off and get their shorts dirty. but you boy you just stay up there and wait for the ball to come to you because you're so special, like Laurent Robert under Sir bobby" do me a favour. Wasn't he meant to be playing as a wide forward? He shouldn't have to be doing any defending at all from that position. A 4-3-3 should turn into a 4-5-1 when defending. So yes - he should be defending. No winger should let the opposition full back and winger double up on your own full back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 There's a difference between helping out and been stuck in a rigid defensive system that only serves to invite pressure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 He's been s*** lately because he's f***ing defending for a full 90 mins so that when he finally gets the ball he's in our own half and shattered He is basically being asked to be a second full-back, or a defensive winger. it is the equiverlent of playing Ameobi as winger.... oh wait! wtf do you want HBA to do, when your team is defending and under the cosh from the opposition, just let HBA run around trying to look busy making no attempt and having no desire to win the ball back? all because " im suppose to be an attacking player" what kind of excuse is that? so players that get played outwide aerent suppose to help out and track back? when the team is under pressure? and dont forget, when he did have the ball today he did jack s*** with it apart losing it from hogging the ball to long, he had team mates beside him waiting, begging for him to make that simple pass to them. What did Laurent Robert do "when your team is defending and under the cosh from the opposition"... f*** all. Even Bobby Robson said it was a bit annoying but what he gave us going forward more than made up for it. Now I'm not for a second suggesting that Ben Arfa should be as lax defending as Robert was, but surely Pardew can find a happy medium in there somewhere? At the moment he is being completely wasted. laurent Robert you use him as an example? Happy medium how? ok you're Alan Pardew, and Danny Simpson is getting smashed, pillaged, over-run by 2 lfc players their left wing leftback. "Hey dont worry Hatem you just let your 9 outfield teamates run their socks off and get their shorts dirty. but you boy you just stay up there and wait for the ball to come to you because you're so special, like Laurent Robert under Sir bobby" do me a favour. Wasn't he meant to be playing as a wide forward? He shouldn't have to be doing any defending at all from that position. A 4-3-3 should turn into a 4-5-1 when defending. So yes - he should be defending. No winger should let the opposition full back and winger double up on your own full back. He was not playing as a winger, that's what I just said. I can't say I've noticed Hazard, Podolski, Gervinho, Silva, Tevez, Oscar, Walcott or any of the other wide forwards in the Premier League spending most of the game on the edge of their own box doubling up on another team's wide forward, you've obviously been paying more attention than me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 He's been s*** lately because he's f***ing defending for a full 90 mins so that when he finally gets the ball he's in our own half and shattered He is basically being asked to be a second full-back, or a defensive winger. it is the equiverlent of playing Ameobi as winger.... oh wait! wtf do you want HBA to do, when your team is defending and under the cosh from the opposition, just let HBA run around trying to look busy making no attempt and having no desire to win the ball back? all because " im suppose to be an attacking player" what kind of excuse is that? so players that get played outwide aerent suppose to help out and track back? when the team is under pressure? and dont forget, when he did have the ball today he did jack s*** with it apart losing it from hogging the ball to long, he had team mates beside him waiting, begging for him to make that simple pass to them. What did Laurent Robert do "when your team is defending and under the cosh from the opposition"... f*** all. Even Bobby Robson said it was a bit annoying but what he gave us going forward more than made up for it. Now I'm not for a second suggesting that Ben Arfa should be as lax defending as Robert was, but surely Pardew can find a happy medium in there somewhere? At the moment he is being completely wasted. laurent Robert you use him as an example? Happy medium how? ok you're Alan Pardew, and Danny Simpson is getting smashed, pillaged, over-run by 2 lfc players their left wing leftback. "Hey dont worry Hatem you just let your 9 outfield teamates run their socks off and get their shorts dirty. but you boy you just stay up there and wait for the ball to come to you because you're so special, like Laurent Robert under Sir bobby" do me a favour. Wasn't he meant to be playing as a wide forward? He shouldn't have to be doing any defending at all from that position. A 4-3-3 should turn into a 4-5-1 when defending. So yes - he should be defending. No winger should let the opposition full back and winger double up on your own full back. He was not playing as a winger, that's what I just said. I can't say I've noticed Hazard, Podolski, Gervinho, Silva, Tevez, Oscar, Walcott or any of the other wide forwards in the Premier League spending most of the game on the edge of their own box doubling up on another team's wide forward, you've obviously been paying more attention than me. He looked like he was playing as a winger to me? We weren't playing a system that had 3 forwards and allowed them to do no defending. I can't think of many teams that do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Liverpool did it today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 He's been s*** lately because he's f***ing defending for a full 90 mins so that when he finally gets the ball he's in our own half and shattered He is basically being asked to be a second full-back, or a defensive winger. it is the equiverlent of playing Ameobi as winger.... oh wait! wtf do you want HBA to do, when your team is defending and under the cosh from the opposition, just let HBA run around trying to look busy making no attempt and having no desire to win the ball back? all because " im suppose to be an attacking player" what kind of excuse is that? so players that get played outwide aerent suppose to help out and track back? when the team is under pressure? and dont forget, when he did have the ball today he did jack s*** with it apart losing it from hogging the ball to long, he had team mates beside him waiting, begging for him to make that simple pass to them. What did Laurent Robert do "when your team is defending and under the cosh from the opposition"... f*** all. Even Bobby Robson said it was a bit annoying but what he gave us going forward more than made up for it. Now I'm not for a second suggesting that Ben Arfa should be as lax defending as Robert was, but surely Pardew can find a happy medium in there somewhere? At the moment he is being completely wasted. laurent Robert you use him as an example? Happy medium how? ok you're Alan Pardew, and Danny Simpson is getting smashed, pillaged, over-run by 2 lfc players their left wing leftback. "Hey dont worry Hatem you just let your 9 outfield teamates run their socks off and get their shorts dirty. but you boy you just stay up there and wait for the ball to come to you because you're so special, like Laurent Robert under Sir bobby" do me a favour. Wasn't he meant to be playing as a wide forward? He shouldn't have to be doing any defending at all from that position. A 4-3-3 should turn into a 4-5-1 when defending. So yes - he should be defending. No winger should let the opposition full back and winger double up on your own full back. He was not playing as a winger, that's what I just said. I can't say I've noticed Hazard, Podolski, Gervinho, Silva, Tevez, Oscar, Walcott or any of the other wide forwards in the Premier League spending most of the game on the edge of their own box doubling up on another team's wide forward, you've obviously been paying more attention than me. those players you mentioned dont always play out wide, silva, tevez, podolski hazard has had their fair share of games through the centre , as for the others thats on your exclusive list, are players playing in teams that can keep the ball all day long. we cannot keep the ball. the arsenal widemen you mentioned arent exactly great examples considering their modest season they are having so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Had the odd good moment, less so than earlier in the season though. Not in his top form atm, think he couldve done better with that counter when he decided to cut inside two players rather than pass to Cisse/shoot first time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Liverpool did it today. I dare say we would have done the same to them if we were at home and the dominant team. Like last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 you know at barcelona , there's a little training regime they use, im sure many would have heard about it. the 6 second rule. when they lose the ball , they get 6 seconds to win it back. this is a team full of individuals just as technical and more even than gifted as HBA,. you only have to watch them play live, everyone of their outfield players break their balls to win the ball back, and i wouldn't call them having ten tough tackling individuals, but the hunger is there to win the ball. ok granted they dont lose the ball that often lol but the point is, all their players regardless of position ,when the ball is lost, they all get busy and commit! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Barcelona are the best team in the world at pressing from the front, a completely different system to what we employ. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Mag Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 you know at barcelona , there's a little training regime they use, im sure many would have heard about it. the 6 second rule. when they lose the ball , they get 6 seconds to win it back. this is a team full of individuals just as technical and more even than gifted as HBA,. you only have to watch them play live, everyone of their outfield players break their balls to win the ball back, and i wouldn't call them having ten tough tackling individuals, but the hunger is there to win the ball. ok granted they dont lose the ball that often lol but the point is, all their players regardless of position ,when the ball is lost, they all get busy and commit! What happens if they dont win it back in 6 seconds? Tito have them all in the dressing room for lashings, like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghandis Flip-Flop Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Am I the only one who thinks he looks a yard off the pace? I know what people are saying about him being tired from all of the defending, but in the last 3 or 4 games he seems to be lacking that burst to beat players. Is it just a case of him being up against very quick full backs? I'm sure he had a better explosive burst in the first few games and second half of last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spiria Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Am I the only one who thinks he looks a yard off the pace? I know what people are saying about him being tired from all of the defending, but in the last 3 or 4 games he seems to be lacking that burst to beat players. Is it just a case of him being up against very quick full backs? I'm sure he had a better explosive burst in the first few games and second half of last season. Had the same impression that he is tired. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 He's never been rapid, well not since the broken leg. He just has great acceleration and close control but would likely lose in a foot race against most full backs. Agree though he was noticeably fatigued when chasing liverpool players but still went on a few long sprints in the 2nd half. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxfree Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Never been rapid? Lose against most full backs in a foot race? Come on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiLvOR Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Never been rapid? Lose against most full backs in a foot race? Come on He almost skinned BAE in the first game of the season after giving him a massive head start Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brendan_Rice Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Keep seeing him pick the ball up outside our box and run well into their half, that is bound to knacker the shite out of you. Would like to see the runs start at midfield more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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