Guest hatem garrincha Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I can't see this ending well, to not start is one thing but to be 3rd choice to Obertan is another. If he's sub against Wolves with Taylor out then he's a step closer to leaving in the summer imo. HBA was never going to see much game time today. He's not had a good run of late - maybe not all his own fault and likely due to the loss of Tiote and Cabaye. He'll be lucky to get a game v Spurs aswell. Agree but is it a rule avalaible for all the others players aswell (historically speaking, this season) ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto2005 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Definitely think we would have seen him if it wasn't for the injuries. How? The person who is playing in his position gets stretched off. He still doesn't come on. The second position he plays gets injured freeing up a slot to come on for Ba/Cisse late in the game but he's still behind Shola and probabaly Lovenkrands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Definitely think we would have seen him if it wasn't for the injuries. How? The person who is playing in his position gets stretched off. He still doesn't come on. The second position he plays gets injured freeing up a slot to come on for Ba/Cisse late in the game but he's still behind Shola and probabaly Lovenkrands. Not that simple though, in both of those situations a professional manager might choose to keep the game tight by bringing on more conservative players. I think he would have come on under normal circumstances, maybe with Cisse on about 65 minutes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Pretty confident that the lad has a future here. I'll trust Pardew to handle the situation correctly (I know, I know, Alan hasn't really managed it properly in the past). I hope Pardew is giving him reasons for why he didn't start today and that Ben Arfa is taking it on the chin and ultimately learning. These days, the lad knows that he has to work hard if he's going to get anywhere near Pardew's first-choice lineup (we saw in recent games that he does do quite a bit of tracking back). I'm not worried as such about Hatem. With players such as Cabaye and Tiote around him, he'll be more of an influence as Yohan and Cheik do offer a lot more movement and look for the ball more than Guthrie (maybe a bit harsh on Danny here, his overall stamina has improved this year but it's not as good as Cabaye's) and Perch (no disrespect to these lads like, they've been solid recently). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Absolutely right decision to not play him in the Villa game and not sub him in when Raylor went out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggs Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Will you lot leave as well? No, we'll stay of course. Have you multiple personalities like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Reading between the lines, Pardew STILL doesn't see him as a winger. He's being a stubborn twat about it and it's one of my main gripes with him TBH. There has been loads of games where he could have come on out wide, or even started there and AP hasn't used him. You hear him in interviews when he is talking about the strikers, he always mentions Ben Arfa. We changed formation to that 4-2-3-1 to accomodate HBA. Whilst I actually quite like the formation, we didn't have the players to do it and I wasn't sure why we didn't just play 4-4-2 with him out wide? The only thing I can think of, is we were missing Cheik and Ba, yesterday we were missing Cheik and Cabaye. Perhaps because of us missing two key players, AP thinks of Ben Arfa as a luxury player and doesn't want to risk him. If he still can't get in the side for the Wolves game, with Cheik and Cabaye back and hopefully available, then the writing is on the wall, he'll leave in the summer. Starting to sound like your typical knee jerk fan, but he's too talented to sit on our bench and I doubt his ego will allow it. I feel a little sorry for him, he has played as a no.10 in some the toughest games of the season (Man U, Man City, Chelsea) and then got dropped. Played in this new system without Ba or Tiote, had a couple of poor games and back to the bench again. I just feel like we haven't actually seen enough of him to even make a fair assessment, we only see him off the bench when we're chasing games and he's not had a run in the side in a fixed position. I thought bringing Obertan on yesterday was the right decision, but Obertan and R.Taylor are not better options out wide in the long term. Would understand if HBA left to be honest, so far I think his talent has been totally wasted by Pardew. Might just be being massively paranoid, but I don't think AP is particularly keen on him. Usually the first to get hauled, often left sat on the bench and seems to get praise, followed by 3 slight put downs or critiscisms, which doesn't seem PArdew's style with any other players Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TherealnorthernTOON Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I would believe we will see that 4-3-3 formation against wolves when tiote/cabaye is back again. And the following matches. I think thats the way he wants to play to bring more fluid football to the club, as he has spoken so much about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tunisia Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Hello congratulations on your victory and ascent. I'm just disappointed not to see Ben Arfa play. Now the most important thing is the club, if you win the better. but we should not expect to see Ben Arfa continue with newcastle if Pardew is the coach next year. RAWA refuse bin to be replaced, especially when he sees shola, or other Obertan be before him. if he says nothing, I think it's for the respect he owes the club and he does not want a bad atmosphere. However, when he came to Newcastle, he had the promise of playing in 10 and have the game, then it is not even winger holder. it reaches an age where he can no longer afford to be replacing. the club is more important than a player, but putting it all the time replacement will not put in trust and it will not happen to pogresser instead. I can understand that a coach to make choices, but then to put Ben Arfa replacement of shola, Obertan or others, is strange. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I would believe we will see that 4-3-3 formation against wolves when tiote/cabaye is back again. And the following matches. I think thats the way he wants to play to bring more fluid football to the club, as he has spoken so much about. Please god no, we tried the 4-3-3 and it didn't work and we were crap. Keep the 4-4-2 with a good balance on both wings. We can't keep changing formations to fit in a player, especially when 4-4-2 has got us where we are so far. It isn't broken so no need to fix it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I think he'll get more playing time with Best out injured. I'd also be more happy with him in the side with Tiote and Cabaye back in midfield and the control/protection they offer the defence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Please god no, we tried the 4-3-3 and it didn't work and we were crap. We didn't have the players for it. It was never going to work with Shola leading it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Why pull Demba Ba out of position to fit Ben Arfa into the team though?? Ba has scored 16 goals this season, why mess with that? I don't see the logic in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shayno Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I've been calling for a 4-3-3 all season, but with the signing of Papiss Cisse it just isn't our best formation anymore. HBA's only hope of making it back into the squad is if he can pull off left wing ahead of Jonas (worth a try imo) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Or right wing and swap with Jonas during the match. He's got more chance of getting in the team ahead of Obertan than Jonas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VaVaVoom Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I think he'll get more playing time with Best out injured. I'd also be more happy with him in the side with Tiote and Cabaye back in midfield and the control/protection they offer the defence. I think the latter part is important. It is clear that while Barfa has the magic to turn games he loses the ball far too much and puts the team in trouble. Having Tiote the destroyer back and Cabaye to control the midfield gives us that extra insurance to be able to afford Barfa in the side. We need him in the side. We now have two fantastic strikers and we need to get quality service into them. Cabaye and Barfa are key to this and while they are creating, Jonas and Tiote will be protecting. Ben Arfa will only get better if he gets a solid run in the team, a bit of trust put in him from AP and that hasnt happened yet but i do think it will once we have our strongest CM pairing back. If he doesnt get that chance from now till the end of the season i can see him leaving in the summer unfortunatly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 To lose this lad without giving him a chance to shine would be a massive disappointment. He's exactly the kind of player we love and haven't had for years. I understand the worries about protection for Simpson, I just hope we find some way to make use of Ben Arfa's immense talent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I've been calling for a 4-3-3 all season, but with the signing of Papiss Cisse it just isn't our best formation anymore. HBA's only hope of making it back into the squad is if he can pull off left wing ahead of Jonas (worth a try imo) 4-2-3-1 is the best system for us IMO...... Simpson Williamson Colo Santon Tiote Cabaye Ben Arfa Ba Jonas Cisse Ba drops deep into midfield to help out the midfield two anyway so i dont see the problem with it, obviously changes to 4-4-2 when we are on the attack....... The percieved problem with Ben Arfa's lack of work rate is quite frankly a non issue with Ba dropping in midfield and Cabaye and Tiote protecting the defence. I understand why Pardew wouldnt want Ben Arfa with Perch and Guthrie in midfield and Best and Shola upfront but with Tiote, Cabaye and Ba i dont see an argument tbh. Also Cisse works very hard off the ball aswell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I've been calling for a 4-3-3 all season, but with the signing of Papiss Cisse it just isn't our best formation anymore. HBA's only hope of making it back into the squad is if he can pull off left wing ahead of Jonas (worth a try imo) 4-2-3-1 is the best system for us IMO...... Simpson Williamson Colo Santon Tiote Cabaye Ben Arfa Ba Jonas Cisse Ba drops deep into midfield to help out the midfield two anyway so i dont see the problem with it, obviously changes to 4-4-2 when we are on the attack....... The percieved problem with Ben Arfa's lack of work rate is quite frankly a non issue with Ba dropping in midfield and Cabaye and Tiote protecting the defence. I understand why Pardew wouldnt want Ben Arfa with Perch and Guthrie in midfield and Best and Shola upfront but with Tiote, Cabaye and Ba i dont see an argument tbh. Also Cisse works very hard off the ball aswell. Agree 100%. This is my "dream" lineup to. But if it works i don't know, looks good though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I've been calling for a 4-3-3 all season, but with the signing of Papiss Cisse it just isn't our best formation anymore. HBA's only hope of making it back into the squad is if he can pull off left wing ahead of Jonas (worth a try imo) 4-2-3-1 is the best system for us IMO...... Simpson Williamson Colo Santon Tiote Cabaye Ben Arfa Ba Jonas Cisse Ba drops deep into midfield to help out the midfield two anyway so i dont see the problem with it, obviously changes to 4-4-2 when we are on the attack....... The percieved problem with Ben Arfa's lack of work rate is quite frankly a non issue with Ba dropping in midfield and Cabaye and Tiote protecting the defence. I understand why Pardew wouldnt want Ben Arfa with Perch and Guthrie in midfield and Best and Shola upfront but with Tiote, Cabaye and Ba i dont see an argument tbh. Also Cisse works very hard off the ball aswell. Again, why move Ba anywhere? He has been nothing short of magnificent for us in the exact role he is playing, he has also scored 16 goals, why would you mess with that? He is a striker that comes deep, playing him anywhere else from that position is going to affect both us and him. We now have 2 great strikers, so for me the perfect logic is play them both upfront. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TherealnorthernTOON Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I don't get where people banging on about a 4-3-3 formation has the wingers all the way by the line all the time. It doesn't have to be so. Ba and HBA should deploy themself closer to the middle, with Ba further upfield while in attack. It will be more of a free floating attacking triangle of doom tbf. ------------------cisse ba---------------------------------------hba thats the way people picture it, while it should be more like -------------------cisse---------------- ---------ba----------------------------- ------------------------hba------------- having fullbacks creating a more of a 5 midfield with the trio behind completing the width together with jonas and cabaye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Ba isn't really moving very far in that formation, it's just a formalisation of the fact he likes to play deeper than Cisse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TherealnorthernTOON Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 That is correct. While hba and Ba drops down to offensive midfielder positions to help out in defence aswell cabaye can allow himself to cover more up at simpsons end as guiterrez allways do at Santons end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Ba is'nt moving anywhere, he's been practically been playing as an SS all season long have you not noticed how much he drops deep to help out the midfield 2? and sprays passes to the wide players to get attacks going...... He basically does for us what Rooney does for Man Utd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I don't get where people banging on about a 4-3-3 formation has the wingers all the way by the line all the time. It doesn't have to be so. Ba and HBA should deploy themself closer to the middle, with Ba further upfield while in attack. It will be more of a free floating attacking triangle of doom tbf. ------------------cisse ba---------------------------------------hba thats the way people picture it, while it should be more like -------------------cisse---------------- ---------ba----------------------------- ------------------------hba------------- having fullbacks creating a more of a 5 midfield with the trio behind completing the width together with jonas and cabaye. Teams would just have to play wide against us to pull us all over the place. the midfielders in the centre would get dragged out wide leaving huge gaps in the middle. So really you want to sacrifice a midfielder for an extra forward? We would be overrun all the time, especially away from home. You would also have players like Cabaye, just chasing shadows instead of giving him time on the ball. Would be a disaster. Again 4-4-2 has got us 1 point off 4th spot, why mess with it?? I can't get my head around why people want to change it so drastically, it's not as if we are having a crap season!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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