oldtype Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Important part or not, it's still put on too much of a pedastal - especially today. Club football should take signicant presidence over it. I don't agree. The biggest stage on club football absolutely pales in historical significance compared to the World Cup. The only reason we're even having this conversation at all is because we're hardcore football junkies. The general public doesn't give a s*** about the Champions League, and small sample size as it might be, the World Cup is undeniably a key factor in determining a player's legacy. Then the general public is in no position to be judging the greatest players of all time. f*** the general public. I like to think that the truly "great" players (the word itself is quite overused) have a historical and cultural significance that goes far beyond just football fans. Pele stopped a civil war ffs. Maradona also kept the entire economy of Bolivia and Colombia afloat. Yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. Gaining influence that goes far beyond the pitch through your skills and achievements. Ryan Giggs is a great player and probably has the most illustrious club career ever, but he's not going to be remembered for very long by people who don't follow football religiously. In about three decades he'll probably be a footnote for most people who aren't Manchester United fans. Maldini? I guess? That's a whole different debate that I don't feel qualified to get into. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Giggs has never been anywhere near as good as Messi or Maradona though. He has a club career that pisses all over both of them though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Not really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Messi's legacy at club level already far outstrips Maradona's. Nonsense. Maradona dragged a basketcase club to their only ever titles in the best league club football will ever see virtually on his own. Messi has everything set up perfectly for him to succeed, it's never rained a day in his life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Pfft, took the easy option of being a big fish in a small pond. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 If anythings easy it's playing in this La Liga with Barca. He should try winning Serie A with Napoli, or the world cup with Argentina. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Couldn't handle a bit of rough tackling in Spain so swanned off to a club where he couldn't fail to be a hero. [/easyoption] [/howmanyeuropeancups?] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Ehem, in summary... If "great player" for you is being remembered for far beyond your time and being mentioned in the same breath as Pele and Maradona, Messi won't be there until he does well at a World Cup. If "great player" for you is displaying great technical ability, he's already there so fuck it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 If anythings easy it's playing in this La Liga with Barca. He should try winning Serie A with Napoli, or the world cup with Argentina. He's winding you up, mate Edit: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I am. Still think the arguments in Maradona's favour can be reversed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Ehem, in summary... If "great player" for you is being remembered for far beyond your time and being mentioned in the same breath as Pele and Maradona, Messi won't be there until he does well at a World Cup. If "great player" for you is displaying great technical ability, he's already there so fuck it. Are you kiddin' me, bro? 20 years from now, Messi will be talked about no matter what he does for the rest of his career primarily because he was the best player on the best team ever. Messi and this Barca team are inextricably linked forever. People talk about the best player and they talk about Pele and Maradona, then someone like Cruyff. Messi, to me, is better than Cruyff. So already he's at #3 and that's only if you give importance to the WC and ignore the quality of the CL today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 What a great night of football yesterday. We may not win the league this year, but as long as I can go to Camp Nou and see spectacles such as that, I will leave the stadium with a big smile on my face. Long it may continue. What can I say? I am a lucky bastard. I called my mom today and thanked her for not marrying an Espanyol fan. She answered that she didn't want her children to lead miserable lives. Anyway, regarding Xavi scoring so much this year, he's been saying that with the introduction of Cesc he finds himself swapping positions with him a lot, and thus getting into scoring positions more often than he used to do. And I don't know if Messi is the best ever, to be frank I always find those comparisons pretty hard to do. I certainly wasn't around when Pelé played, and can only go off highlight reels, adding to the fact of how hard is to compare even contemporary footballers with different styles and positions. What can I say about Messi compared to Maradona (who I did see play), is how incredibly consistent Messi is compared to him. When Maradona was Maradona he was ridiculously unstoppable, but he wasn't always Maradona. Messi seems to always be Messi. Games big or small, he almost always does something that I could watch over and over. Anyway, I look forward having children and telling them how I watched him play. God, I hated it when dad would go on and on about Kubala and now I will be able to do the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 What a great night of football yesterday. We may not win the league this year, but as long as I can go to Camp Nou and see spectacles such as that, I will leave the stadium with a big smile on my face. Long it may continue. What can I say? I am a lucky bastard. I called my mom today and thanked her for not marrying an Espanyol fan. She answered that she didn't want her children to lead miserable lives. Anyway, regarding Xavi scoring so much this year, he's been saying that with the introduction of Cesc he finds himself swapping positions with him a lot, and thus getting into scoring positions more often than he used to do. And I don't know if Messi is the best ever, to be frank I always find those comparisons pretty hard to do. I certainly wasn't around when Pelé played, and can only go off highlight reels, adding to the fact of how hard is to compare even contemporary footballers with different styles and positions. What can I say about Messi compared to Maradona (who I did see play), is how incredibly consistent Messi is compared to him. When Maradona was Maradona he was ridiculously unstoppable, but he wasn't always Maradona. Messi seems to always be Messi. Games big or small, he almost always does something that I could watch over and over. Anyway, I look forward having children and telling them how I watched him play. God, I hated it when dad would go on and on about Kubala and now I will be able to do the same. Brilliant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Forza Napoli Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I'll frighten my children with stories of Joe Kinnear when they're being naughty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Great double save from the Russian keeper there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeloEmre Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Ronaldo 1-0. Weak defending. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest palnese Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 RM through. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameritoon Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Shot themselves in the foot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Awful defending. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Great finish, mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David28 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Finishing was supreme from Ronaldo there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Had forgot they were already playing, damn Russian timezones. Never expected them to have any difficulty anyway. Is Russia actually the country with most teams in the first knockout (3)? Together with Italy, I suppose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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