Papiss Cissé

[Dokko]

Yeah, what Dave said.

 

Club still getting the benefit of the doubt in times of ambiguity, ambiguity which they create by not saying anything.

 

What has Cisse directly said?

 

Nothing, which hasn't stopped you slaughtering him.

 

The club get it in the neck not saying anything but Cisse says nothing and that is fine.

 

I haven't slaughtered him, not even close.

[duo]

Management seems totally incapable of handling any situation professionally. This isn't that hard of a problem. If he has an issue wearing the logo, you meet with him, let him know that you appreciate his concerns and will try to work with him to address the situation. But you also lay out the facts that he has a contract with the club, that the club has a contract with the sponsor, and that those contracts present certain limitations on what each party is entitled to do. If they can reach a reasonable resolution within the confines of those limitations, great. If not, then promptly do what needs to be done to mitigate the harm to the club. Above all, do it quickly, and do your best to keep it out of the press. 

 

:clap:

 

Rocket f***ing science.

 

Yep, agree with that as well.

 

Although I wouldn't want the club to rush to the conclusion that Cisse needs to be shipped out too soon. The balance is hard to get right, it might still be sorted. We needed to be looking at a couple of strikers anyway, so it wasn't a totally unexpected need.

 

If you're making a player train alone some TEN f***ing MONTHS after the deal was announced then you're doing it wrong. They're absolutely f***ing useless man, how can't you see it?

Not just any player either but our only real recognised striker.  The lack of urgency to resolve this just beggars belief. 

[madras]

I'm curious as to why all of this is kicking off only just now when Wonga was announced in September of last year.

 

To be fair it was reported almost from day one that we'd have a problem with the Muslim players over this. Cisse was consistently mentioned.

Best I could find on google (from 1/9/2012 to 1/6/2013) was a few articles from the start by local clerics/imams about it, usual daily mail troublemaking although I think there was a telegraph article in there too. Nothing actually from the players themselves. And then radio silence.

 

I reserve the right to be disappointed in him for leaving it to the 11th hour to start this. 

 

It was reported properly about Cisse having an issue with it on 11th June. It's now just about the 24th July and precisely nothing has been done about it. It could be described as the 11th hour in terms of the deal being announced last year, but there's much more to say it's just gross incompetence that this hasn't been sorted yet.

 

This stuff has to be sorted out before players return for pre-season without fail.

 

You know it won't be though

 

f***ing laughable.

we know nowt tbh, all we know is the player seemingly refuses to wear the logo, we don't know what or if the club have tried to compromise.

[madras]

Duo and 'polic are bang on imo.

 

The fans/local media really should be blasting Wonga instead of directing their fury at Cisse because his beliefs seem bit mixed up.

 

What should we be blasting Wonga for? Just existing?

 

Erm, yes? They exist and they're s***. They're also sponsoring us.

 

Right, but that's kind of a given. You can't really 'blast' a company for existing. I don't like them, but they aren't breaking any laws and moral judgement on them is subjective at best. We're not likely to force out a sponsor by objecting to it, and I doubt strength of feeling would be strong enough anyway.

 

Nobody should be blasting Cisse either mind.

What do you mean you can't blast a company for existing?

 

You sort of can when their entire existence is that they are a f***ing modern day loan shark, but that's besides the point. Instead of directing the focus on Cisse's hypocrisy direct it on what a s*** odious company Wonga are and how his moral or religious beliefs are perfectly reasonable. If anything is going to force some action from either Mike or Wonga it's the latter, a character assassination against Cisse just strengthens their position.

if his beliefs are perfectly reasonable surely he'd refuse the barclays logo aswell ?

 

Are you on repeat?

sometimes it's necessary.

[Hanshithispantz]

Duo and 'polic are bang on imo.

 

The fans/local media really should be blasting Wonga instead of directing their fury at Cisse because his beliefs seem bit mixed up.

 

What should we be blasting Wonga for? Just existing?

 

Erm, yes? They exist and they're s***. They're also sponsoring us.

 

Right, but that's kind of a given. You can't really 'blast' a company for existing. I don't like them, but they aren't breaking any laws and moral judgement on them is subjective at best. We're not likely to force out a sponsor by objecting to it, and I doubt strength of feeling would be strong enough anyway.

 

Nobody should be blasting Cisse either mind.

What do you mean you can't blast a company for existing?

 

You sort of can when their entire existence is that they are a f***ing modern day loan shark, but that's besides the point. Instead of directing the focus on Cisse's hypocrisy direct it on what a s*** odious company Wonga are and how his moral or religious beliefs are perfectly reasonable. If anything is going to force some action from either Mike or Wonga it's the latter, a character assassination against Cisse just strengthens their position.

if his beliefs are perfectly reasonable surely he'd refuse the barclays logo aswell ?

Why do you keep bringing this up man?

 

Barclays are probably shits as well, aye. He hasn't got an issue with them though, probably because they don't function solely as a loan shark, I don't know.

 

What I'm saying is bad press for Wonga will have a greater chance of forcing someones hand that bad press for Cisse, the latter is exactly what Wonga (and probably Mike) will want throughout this. It's probably too ideal a situation though.

[duo]

Yeah, what Dave said.

 

Club still getting the benefit of the doubt in times of ambiguity, ambiguity which they create by not saying anything.

 

What has Cisse directly said?

 

Nothing, which hasn't stopped you slaughtering him.

Amazing how people are so quick turn on a player....this goal saved our season

 

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/07/article-2305282-1928C67B000005DC-574_634x447.jpg

[Hanshithispantz]

Duo and 'polic are bang on imo.

 

The fans/local media really should be blasting Wonga instead of directing their fury at Cisse because his beliefs seem bit mixed up.

 

What should we be blasting Wonga for? Just existing?

 

Erm, yes? They exist and they're shit. They're also sponsoring us.

 

Right, but that's kind of a given. You can't really 'blast' a company for existing. I don't like them, but they aren't breaking any laws and moral judgement on them is subjective at best. We're not likely to force out a sponsor by objecting to it, and I doubt strength of feeling would be strong enough anyway.

 

Nobody should be blasting Cisse either mind.

What do you mean you can't blast a company for existing?

 

You sort of can when their entire existence is that they are a fucking modern day loan shark, but that's besides the point. Instead of directing the focus on Cisse's hypocrisy direct it on what a shit odious company Wonga are and how his moral or religious beliefs are perfectly reasonable. If anything is going to force some action from either Mike or Wonga it's the latter, a character assassination against Cisse just strengthens their position.

 

You really believe this is definitely all to do with Cisse being so genuinely appalled by Wonga that he just cant bring himself to wear the shirt.

I believe he has inset beliefs/opinions and we should treat them with a little bit of compassion

[madras]

Duo and 'polic are bang on imo.

 

The fans/local media really should be blasting Wonga instead of directing their fury at Cisse because his beliefs seem bit mixed up.

 

What should we be blasting Wonga for? Just existing?

 

Erm, yes? They exist and they're s***. They're also sponsoring us.

 

Right, but that's kind of a given. You can't really 'blast' a company for existing. I don't like them, but they aren't breaking any laws and moral judgement on them is subjective at best. We're not likely to force out a sponsor by objecting to it, and I doubt strength of feeling would be strong enough anyway.

 

Nobody should be blasting Cisse either mind.

What do you mean you can't blast a company for existing?

 

You sort of can when their entire existence is that they are a f***ing modern day loan shark, but that's besides the point. Instead of directing the focus on Cisse's hypocrisy direct it on what a s*** odious company Wonga are and how his moral or religious beliefs are perfectly reasonable. If anything is going to force some action from either Mike or Wonga it's the latter, a character assassination against Cisse just strengthens their position.

if his beliefs are perfectly reasonable surely he'd refuse the barclays logo aswell ?

Why do you keep bringing this up man?

 

Barclays are probably s***s as well, aye. He hasn't got an issue with them though, probably because they don't function solely as a loan shark, I don't know.

 

What I'm saying is bad press for Wonga will have a greater chance of forcing someones hand that bad press for Cisse, the latter is exactly what Wonga (and probably Mike) will want throughout this. It's probably too ideal a situation though.

i keep bringing it up because the defences for why barclays is ok when wonga aren't have all been poor so far.

[BlueStar]

Maybe he thinks from a religious and ethical standpoint that charging a little bit of interest is a bit wrong, but charging a lot of interest is a lot wrong?

 

Doesn't seem to be a totally whacked out, paradoxical and absolutely illogical position to hold.  It seems like the kind of position most people have on most things.

[Guest bimpy474]

Probably only reacted like that as he had a tenner on himself as the last goalscorer.

[Dokko]

Pardon the pun but if anyone just sees this situation in black or white, club vs Cisse then they are fucking thick as whale spunk.

 

There is a lot of grey here and people are acting like it doesn't count.

[Disco]

It's an avoidable situation which hasn't avoided by the club therefore it's the clubs fault...IMO. Couldn't give a shit about the intricacies of it. Our best striker is missing out on important pre-season for non-footballing reasons, as with nearly everything else to do with NUFC it's fucking embarrassing.

[Interpolic]

The people running the show at Newcastle are geet canny lads and probably did offer a compromise, it's just a shame that Cisse has stubbornly insisted on COKE, SLAGS AND POKER on his shirt or they can go fuck themselves.

[Teasy]

I'm curious as to why all of this is kicking off only just now when Wonga was announced in September of last year.

 

To be fair it was reported almost from day one that we'd have a problem with the Muslim players over this. Cisse was consistently mentioned.

Best I could find on google (from 1/9/2012 to 1/6/2013) was a few articles from the start by local clerics/imams about it, usual daily mail troublemaking although I think there was a telegraph article in there too. Nothing actually from the players themselves. And then radio silence.

 

I reserve the right to be disappointed in him for leaving it to the 11th hour to start this. 

 

It was reported properly about Cisse having an issue with it on 11th June. It's now just about the 24th July and precisely nothing has been done about it. It could be described as the 11th hour in terms of the deal being announced last year, but there's much more to say it's just gross incompetence that this hasn't been

 

Ok, lets pretend they're competent for a moment. What should they have done to sort this within a guarenteed time scale?  Give him a huge pay rise to negate his beliefs?  Cancel a multi million pound contract for one player?  Transfer list him to ensure we recieve a pittance when he goes?

[Interpolic]

Maybe he thinks from a religious and ethical standpoint that charging a little bit of interest is a bit wrong, but charging a lot of interest is a lot wrong?

 

Doesn't seem to be a totally whacked out, paradoxical and absolutely illogical position to hold.  It seems like the kind of position most people have on most things.

 

I said that earlier and was ignored.

[madras]

Maybe he thinks from a religious and ethical standpoint that charging a little bit of interest is a bit wrong, but charging a lot of interest is a lot wrong?

 

Doesn't seem to be a totally whacked out, paradoxical and absolutely illogical position to hold.  It seems like the kind of position most people have on most things.

barclays charge £25 for going £1 overdrawn, what rate of interest is that ? not to mention the costs we've all had to incur, barclays customers or not, for their libor rigging and tax avoidance. surely after kicking up about one sponsor it's only natural to infer that he's ok with the others.

[Teasy]

It's an avoidable situation which hasn't avoided by the club therefore it's the clubs fault...IMO. Couldn't give a shit about the intricacies of it. Our best striker is missing out on important pre-season for non-footballing reasons, as with nearly everything else to do with NUFC it's fucking embarrassing.

 

Ok, how would you avoid it?  Also it amazes me frankly that you think a guy thats being paid millions to play Football has no responsibility in sorting out a work issue.  Both parties are responsible.

[Hanshithispantz]

I'm curious as to why all of this is kicking off only just now when Wonga was announced in September of last year.

 

To be fair it was reported almost from day one that we'd have a problem with the Muslim players over this. Cisse was consistently mentioned.

Best I could find on google (from 1/9/2012 to 1/6/2013) was a few articles from the start by local clerics/imams about it, usual daily mail troublemaking although I think there was a telegraph article in there too. Nothing actually from the players themselves. And then radio silence.

 

I reserve the right to be disappointed in him for leaving it to the 11th hour to start this. 

 

It was reported properly about Cisse having an issue with it on 11th June. It's now just about the 24th July and precisely nothing has been done about it. It could be described as the 11th hour in terms of the deal being announced last year, but there's much more to say it's just gross incompetence that this hasn't been

 

What do we do to sort this within a guarenteed time scale then?  Give him a huge pay rise to negate his beliefs?  Cancel a multi million pound contract for one player? Transfer list him to ensure we recieve a pittance when he goes?

We shouldn't have signed the contract in the first place, so aye, that one.

[Hanshithispantz]

Maybe he thinks from a religious and ethical standpoint that charging a little bit of interest is a bit wrong, but charging a lot of interest is a lot wrong?

 

Doesn't seem to be a totally whacked out, paradoxical and absolutely illogical position to hold.  It seems like the kind of position most people have on most things.

barclays charge £25 for going £1 overdrawn, what rate of interest is that ? not to mention the costs we've all had to incur, barclays customers or not, for their libor rigging and tax avoidance. surely after kicking up about one sponsor it's only natural to infer that he's ok with the others.

That's a fine, not a loan.

 

EDIT: I don't know if that makes a difference in Islam like, just saying.

[Wullie]

But isn't it natural to support the club ahead of individuals? I disagree with rapid changes of mind over players obviously.

 

[Unbelievable]

What I don't understand from Cisse's perspective, assuming it is true that his objection to having Wonga as our shirt sponsor is religion related, is that he has less problems with passively promoting a company that performs usury (even ignoring last season's sponsor also did) than he has actively performing himself an act that is considered haram. I mean, if the club forced him to loan out his own money and charge interest on it, I could see that would be objectionable by religious terms, but we're merely asking him to wear our club gear, that happens to have a company name on it of a company that might be considered haram (again, as was last seasons').

 

That said, I have been in a casino once or twice before, and actually gambled a little bit of money on those occasions, but I wouldn't say that made me a gambler.

 

I expect Cisse to fold on this point when the other lads return from Portugal. It is not in his interests to see this story continue into the new season, and I don't expect his self interest to make way for his principles.

[madras]

Maybe he thinks from a religious and ethical standpoint that charging a little bit of interest is a bit wrong, but charging a lot of interest is a lot wrong?

 

Doesn't seem to be a totally whacked out, paradoxical and absolutely illogical position to hold.  It seems like the kind of position most people have on most things.

barclays charge £25 for going £1 overdrawn, what rate of interest is that ? not to mention the costs we've all had to incur, barclays customers or not, for their libor rigging and tax avoidance. surely after kicking up about one sponsor it's only natural to infer that he's ok with the others.

That's a fine, not a loan.

semantics.

[TRon]

I honestly can't understand why their are NUFC fans on twitter outwardly sharing these photos?That photo was tweeted to Wraith, what the fuck is the point?

 

Disagree, he obviously wants out of the club (don't really blame him)but does not have the balls to say so..

 

Without a doubt one of my favourite players but the way he has went about this stinks.

 

Hope the club come out and put him up for sale.

 

Same here. Shola has shown he's ready and willing to take up the challenge next season with his 2 goals in 2 games pre-season.

[Disco]

It's an avoidable situation which hasn't avoided by the club therefore it's the clubs fault...IMO. Couldn't give a shit about the intricacies of it. Our best striker is missing out on important pre-season for non-footballing reasons, as with nearly everything else to do with NUFC it's fucking embarrassing.

 

Ok, how would you avoid it?  Also it amazes me frankly that you think a guy thats being paid millions to play Football has no responsibility in sorting out a work issue.  Both parties are responsible.

 

No idea, I'm not paid to deal with such things. I'd do my utmost to sort it before it became an issue and hit the press do. I'm a supporter though, not someone out to show everyone who is boss like the nouveau rich plebs in charge of us.

[Parky]

For the assertions about hypocrisy -  Let those who....cast the first stone etc...