GM Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/237/42570210150536364286923.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 There must be some stinking rich Rangers supporting loon out there willing to bale them out? Or so you'd think; they have fans all over the world yet it's come to this. Rangers and the SPL have had their heads in the sand. The SPL allowed them to grow way too big for their league and Rangers have lived way beyond their means. I hope they find a way out of this. Would add I wouldn't want either of the Old Firm anywhere near any of the English leagues. Hell on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesPaul Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 So ho much do they owe the taxman then? "The appointment follows a petition for administration presented to the Court of Session in Edinburgh today by HMRC following the non-payment of circa £9m PAYE and VAT following the takeover of the Club in May 2011." So Whyte hasn't paid any tax since he took over. They've got another case to come over an extra £49m+ but they haven't lost that case yet so have no bill to pay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross magoo Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Written off. Tis the public limited way. Edit: Administrators will try and get as much out of any assets to pay creditors (HMRC being the priority), firstly. Are the rules different in Scotland? In England "footballing" creditors are the priority and HMRC have to fight for the money with the rest of the normal creditors, it's why Portsmouth escaped liquidation since they were able to pay pennies in the pound for their major debts. Whyte is the only secured creditor, HMRC will get nowt if they go into Administration as Whyte gets priority. Will be hilarious if they go out of business and have to start in the Scottish lower leagues. Would be even funnier to watch the spl fall apart, especially when "they don't need Rangers" They don't, or Celtic either. Be a much better league of those two f***ed off, ask any other teams fan up there. They'll loose nearly all tv money, you think sky/espn will pay money for Inverness v Kilmarnock? No but a deal is close to being struck with the History Channel for the rights to Rangers games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
div-s- Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Written off. Tis the public limited way. Edit: Administrators will try and get as much out of any assets to pay creditors (HMRC being the priority), firstly. Are the rules different in Scotland? In England "footballing" creditors are the priority and HMRC have to fight for the money with the rest of the normal creditors, it's why Portsmouth escaped liquidation since they were able to pay pennies in the pound for their major debts. Whyte is the only secured creditor, HMRC will get nowt if they go into Administration as Whyte gets priority. Will be hilarious if they go out of business and have to start in the Scottish lower leagues. Would be even funnier to watch the spl fall apart, especially when "they don't need Rangers" They don't, or Celtic either. Be a much better league of those two f***ed off, ask any other teams fan up there. They'll loose nearly all tv money, you think sky/espn will pay money for Inverness v Kilmarnock? No but a deal is close to being struck with the History Channel for the rights to Rangers games. Where all Dundee United league wins get shown Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveItIfWeBeatU Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Why were they allowed to run up such a tax debt in the first place? I'm sure HMRC knew Rangers owed them long before the figure reached £49m. The same goes for Portsmouth. It stinks that clubs can live beyond their means and expect to get away with it. Thanks to Ashley taking the unpopular, painful (but correct) route of running NUFC as a business we are probably now one of the best financially run clubs around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I blame David Murray, he let Advocaat run up those wages and transfer debts knowing that they'd never recoup their outgoings. In so doing, he's left Rangers Football Club (much like himself) without a leg to stand on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Why were they allowed to run up such a tax debt in the first place? I'm sure HMRC knew Rangers owed them long before the figure reached £49m. The same goes for Portsmouth. It stinks that clubs can live beyond their means and expect to get away with it. Thanks to Ashley taking the unpopular, painful (but correct) route of running NUFC as a business we are probably now one of the best financially run clubs around. Well the 49M figure is a guess, and relates to the player funds that are in dispute. It's not that they got a tax bill and simply ignored it. Except they did exactly that for the 9M in VAT. That just looks really dodgy and cynical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross magoo Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Why were they allowed to run up such a tax debt in the first place? I'm sure HMRC knew Rangers owed them long before the figure reached £49m. The same goes for Portsmouth. It stinks that clubs can live beyond their means and expect to get away with it. Thanks to Ashley taking the unpopular, painful (but correct) route of running NUFC as a business we are probably now one of the best financially run clubs around. I don't think it's been a case of racking up the debt and the taxman not calling it in until now. It's more a case of Rangers, over many years, paying players wages into offshore accounts to avoid PAYE contributions. HMRC have now turned around and said "erm, actually, that's illegal" and they want the PAYE conts backdated to when Rangers started trying to work the system. That's why the figure is as high as it is. It wasn't knowingly ignored, it just took a while for them to get caught. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Just watched the BBC investigation into this fella. I don't think he has the cash- he's not poor but he's certainly not got anything like the wealth he has made out. His move to put it into admin is an attempt to obtain the assets of the club and leave HMRC empty handed. That's me and you making up that tax bill, lets ot forget. The question is where has this season-ticket loan come from, who is Ticketus and why did they lend to such a dubious credit, seemingly without security? They have lent against future season ticket sales of this club, not of some newly-minted entity. If Whyte has secured £24m from them, in theory he could have paid it to himself as a special dividend, repaid whoever bridged him the £18m to buy the club's debt (plus a little for his efforts) leave the secured debt on the books, put it into admin to get his debt back, leaving all other creditors high and dry and him with a club and a few quid. All for free. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Just watched the BBC investigation into this fella. I don't think he has the cash- he's not poor but he's certainly not got anything like the wealth he has made out. His move to put it into admin is an attempt to obtain the assets of the club and leave HMRC empty handed. That's me and you making up that tax bill, lets ot forget. The question is where has this season-ticket loan come from, who is Ticketus and why did they lend to such a dubious credit, seemingly without security? They have lent against future season ticket sales of this club, not of some newly-minted entity. If Whyte has secured £24m from them, in theory he could have paid it to himself as a special dividend, repaid whoever bridged him the £18m to buy the club's debt (plus a little for his efforts) leave the secured debt on the books, put it into admin to get his debt back, leaving all other creditors high and dry and him with a club and a few quid. All for free. Is all of that legal? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Just watched the BBC investigation into this fella. I don't think he has the cash- he's not poor but he's certainly not got anything like the wealth he has made out. His move to put it into admin is an attempt to obtain the assets of the club and leave HMRC empty handed. That's me and you making up that tax bill, lets ot forget. The question is where has this season-ticket loan come from, who is Ticketus and why did they lend to such a dubious credit, seemingly without security? They have lent against future season ticket sales of this club, not of some newly-minted entity. If Whyte has secured £24m from them, in theory he could have paid it to himself as a special dividend, repaid whoever bridged him the £18m to buy the club's debt (plus a little for his efforts) leave the secured debt on the books, put it into admin to get his debt back, leaving all other creditors high and dry and him with a club and a few quid. All for free. Is all of that legal? I think so, but will happily defer to the experts on here. I just don't understand how these Ticketus people have been so monumentally stupid. They should have something in place to prevent this happening, but I suspect not- this strategy reflects what he has done to companies in the past. About five years ago they changed the law so the taxman was no longer a preferred creditor- if that was still in place his plan wouldn't work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Alot of clubs borrow from Ticketus on the strength of future season-ticket sales, although usually for a few months at most not years. I watched that BBC doc when it was first showed. Everything he's done so far is following his usual plan, buy a failing business for a small fee (in this case £1) and manoeuvre things so he benefits from them going bust. He's an asset stripper and I'd be far more worried him than HMRC if I was a Rangers fan. £24m of the fans money from Ticketus, £9m unpaid tax, £5m for Jelavic has seemingly disappeared. Rangers can't be skint when there's £38m there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
div-s- Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Alot of clubs borrow from Ticketus on the strength of future season-ticket sales, although usually for a few months at most not years. I watched that BBC doc when it was first showed. Everything he's done so far is following his usual plan, buy a failing business for a small fee (in this case £1) and manoeuvre things so he benefits from them going bust. He's an asset stripper and I'd be far more worried him than HMRC if I was a Rangers fan. £24m of the fans money from Ticketus, £9m unpaid tax, £5m for Jelavic has seemingly disappeared. Rangers can't be skint when there's £38m there. Speaking as a Rangers fan you're bang on. He may have took the club on with the tax case already public but he's done alot of shady stuff. I.e the 3 points you made Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 So ho much do they owe the taxman then? pure hunners Did anyone else appreciate this one? It's a cracker! Thank god for that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henke Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 How far back has this tax fiddle gone, ten years plus? Rangers should be stripped of every title they've won in that time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 However dodgy this appears, it sounds like this bloke has played a canny game and he and Rangers will probably emerge far stronger for it. At taxpayers' expense, mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Listening to BBC Radio Scotland debate just now, I have to say I agree with Graham Spiers who says that tax avoidance has given Rangers a colossal advantage...and that is just plain wrong. Never mind 10 points deduction, they should be relegated and I think HMRC will make a proper example of Rangers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Excellent point made there too by Pat Nevin: the SPL tv deal will fall apart without Rangers being part of the equation. If Rangers go out of business, the whole SPL will find itself cash-starved. That will impact on the rest of Scottish football too... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Is it possible for these to do a Gretna? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Speaking as a Rangers fan you're bang on. He may have took the club on with the tax case already public but he's done alot of shady stuff. I.e the 3 points you made Another point is all the board members have been kept out of the loop and fired one and by one and the accounts haven't been filed. Now Rangers are in administration they don't have to be. So nobody will ever know where the money has gone. Here's that BBC program on Whyte http://y2u.be/xaKR13_2QX4 He said he was going to sue them straight after it but for some reason never did... In that vid was one of the his old associates convicted fraudster Kevin Sykes who's piped up today A JAILED embezzler has told how he helped beleaguered tycoon Craig Whyte sail from one bust company to another Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Is it possible for these to do a Gretna? No chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 8 Current/former Premiership clubs are under investigation for unpaid taxes too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Have Pompey gone into administration yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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