Alan Pardew

[Flip]

It's not a great job, but it's also a matter of inheriting a shit squad and having to sell his best players as soon as they flourished and also I think it's been proven under us that you need a good scouting system in place to get the best players. He has had to go get players from outside who have had a difficulty adapting to Wigan as well as not being able to attract the best.

 

[Superior Acuña]

A great job, really? Three points off safety?

 

I don't doubt that he's got a s**** squad but he's the one that's put it together and when he has been given decent money he's generally spent it on a right load of rubbish. He hasn't had significantly less resources to work with than Reading, or Swansea, or Norwich, or Fulham, or West Brom, or Everton. Some of them clubs have had money to spend by selling players they've improved - Martinez hasn't because he doesn't seem to improve players, or get players in that are a bargain and whose value rockets.

 

People just seem to like him cos his team passes the ball. That's not enough.

 

I agree like, I'm a bit bewildered by the ubiquitous Martinez love. Dont understand what he's done that Steve Bruce and others haven't. Surely Wigan have been up long enough that saving them in the final games shouldn't be considered an especially good achievement.

[Wullie]

Forgot about Moses, though there's an argument to be made that he was always going to improve dramatically with age, certainly he was hyped at Palace.

[Wullie]

It's not a great job, but it's also a matter of inheriting a shit squad and having to sell his best players as soon as they flourished and also I think it's been proven under us that you need a good scouting system in place to get the best players. He has had to go get players from outside who have had a difficulty adapting to Wigan as well as not being able to attract the best.

 

 

You don't need the best to stay in the Premier League though. None of those clubs I mentioned have attracted "the best" and the likes of West Brom have spent absolute bloody peanuts, but spent it so much better and used the players better.

[tmonkey]

This might be a bit contentious, but when I look at the players we have in this squad, aside from being thin up front, I don't remember us ever having anything like the depth and quality we have now throughout the Premiership era, even under Sir Bobby or Keegan. To list what we currently have:

 

One of the best keepers in the league.

Three decent-to-good Premiership centrebacks, two of whom are internationals for the bigger footballing nations.

Two very decent attacking fullbacks.

A ridiculous amount of quality in midfield (Cabaye, Tiote, Sissoko, Marveaux, Anita, and squad players like Bigirimana, Jonas, Perch, Obertan).

One of the most gifted players this club has had in Ben Arfa, up there with Beardo and Gazza.

Two good strikers in Cisse and Gouffran.

 

In all honesty, I reckon we're one world class striker away from having a better squad than both Keegan and Sir Bobby's teams - Colo alone is better than any of the defenders we had under Keegan whilst we had s*** defenders in Sir Bobby's peak side (prior to Woodgate's arrival, and even then he was a crock so that doesn't change things), I'd argue Cabaye is on a par, if not better than, Rob Lee, and definitely better than Speed, Ben Arfa is comfortably better than Ginola and Robert, Sissoko and Tiote have no equivalents in both teams, and beyond the first eleven we just have much more depth (in all honesty, Perch > Stevie Watson as a utility player). The only area, again, where both Keegan and Sir Bobby had it better was up front (Beardo + Cole/Ferdinand/Shearer, Bellamy + Shearer).

 

Even if anyone wants to disagree and point to players who were good and not bettered in this squad (Gillespie and Dyer at the peak of their powers maybe), can it really be argued that it isn't very close between the 3 squads? Putting performances aside of course. 

 

Point being that whilst it's fair enough that this squad has only been "completed" a few weeks ago, if between now and the end of the season we don't start to see a gradual improvement in our teamplay, passing, movement, the types of chances created, the lesser players phased out and a system found that works (and incorporate as many of our best players as possible), and more importantly, at least a couple of games where we absolutely dominate a team from start to finish (not just thrash them in terms of a scoreline where we finish off a bunch of scrappy chances whilst they miss their changes, but rather we rape them in terms of possession + pegging them back in their own half + good chances created), if we don't improvement in those areas then I want Pardew gone, as the guy will only be wasting what on paper is a squad I'm sure most managers outside of the CL clubs would dream of having.

[ponsaelius]

Forgot about Moses, though there's an argument to be made that he was always going to improve dramatically with age, certainly he was hyped at Palace.

 

He looks good these days. Rather he was playing for England than Downing.

[Flip]

It's not a great job, but it's also a matter of inheriting a s*** squad and having to sell his best players as soon as they flourished and also I think it's been proven under us that you need a good scouting system in place to get the best players. He has had to go get players from outside who have had a difficulty adapting to Wigan as well as not being able to attract the best.

 

 

You don't need the best to stay in the Premier League though. None of those clubs I mentioned have attracted "the best" and the likes of West Brom have spent absolute bloody peanuts, but spent it so much better and used the players better.

 

Fair enough, what I meant though is that how is he supposed to build a team when Wigan has a history of selling their best players every summer? Valencia, N'Zogbia, Moses and the list goes on. He has to restart and reintegrate a whole new squad every season. Stoke doesn't have to as they rely on players like Crouch, Huth and Shawcross who no one wants anyways but who are decent enough to keep the club in the top 75% in the league.

 

 

[geordie_b]

Forgot about Moses, though there's an argument to be made that he was always going to improve dramatically with age, certainly he was hyped at Palace.

 

He looks good these days. Rather he was playing for England than Downing.

 

shame he is Nigerian then...

[ponsaelius]

Forgot about Moses, though there's an argument to be made that he was always going to improve dramatically with age, certainly he was hyped at Palace.

 

He looks good these days. Rather he was playing for England than Downing.

 

shame he is Nigerian then...

 

That's the point I'm making. We let him slit through the net (played at every youth level for England) while other pointless players play for the national team.

[Stu]

We won half of our league games last season. I have a lot of doubts about Pardew's true ability but to say he's out-coached every single game is laughably harsh.

 

I said it last season and I'll say it this season too. Pardew isn't the real reason for us finishing so high up. I'm sorry but we had a starting eleven very capable of that finish. We were riding a lot on confidence and tactically Pardew isn't great.

 

James Perch and Jonas were important components of the starting XI which played last season. They're the same players Pardew is being lambasted for playing this season (ahead of a woefully out of form Tiote and youth/injured players).

[Flip]

Jonas was nowhere near as bad last season as this one.

[Si]

Forgot about Moses, though there's an argument to be made that he was always going to improve dramatically with age, certainly he was hyped at Palace.

 

Got a good fee for Zog the season before too.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

Forgot about Moses, though there's an argument to be made that he was always going to improve dramatically with age, certainly he was hyped at Palace.

 

He looks good these days. Rather he was playing for England than Downing.

 

shame he is Nigerian then...

 

That's the point I'm making. We let him slit through the net (played at every youth level for England) while other pointless players play for the national team.

The guy openly said that he chose to play for us because the competition would have kept him out of the England squad. It's funny because I genuinely think he would be starting for you if he stayed.

A great job, really? Three points off safety?

 

I don't doubt that he's got a s**** squad but he's the one that's put it together and when he has been given decent money he's generally spent it on a right load of rubbish. He hasn't had significantly less resources to work with than Reading, or Swansea, or Norwich, or Fulham, or West Brom, or Everton. Some of them clubs have had money to spend by selling players they've improved - Martinez hasn't because he doesn't seem to improve players, or get players in that are a bargain and whose value rockets.

 

People just seem to like him cos his team passes the ball. That's not enough.

 

I agree like, I'm a bit bewildered by the ubiquitous Martinez love. Dont understand what he's done that Steve Bruce and others haven't. Surely Wigan have been up long enough that saving them in the final games shouldn't be considered an especially good achievement.

Wigan's team is remarkably terrible. Martinez has done a great job of making them play good football, but I hope he does control player recruitment.

[Mick]

This might be a bit contentious, but when I look at the players we have in this squad, aside from being thin up front, I don't remember us ever having anything like the depth and quality we have now throughout the Premiership era, even under Sir Bobby or Keegan. To list what we currently have:

 

One of the best keepers in the league.

Three decent-to-good Premiership centrebacks, two of whom are internationals for the bigger footballing nations.

Two very decent attacking fullbacks.

A ridiculous amount of quality in midfield (Cabaye, Tiote, Sissoko, Marveaux, Anita, and squad players like Bigirimana, Jonas, Perch, Obertan).

One of the most gifted players this club has had in Ben Arfa, up there with Beardo and Gazza.

Two good strikers in Cisse and Gouffran.

 

In all honesty, I reckon we're one world class striker away from having a better squad than both Keegan and Sir Bobby's teams - Colo alone is better than any of the defenders we had under Keegan whilst we had s*** defenders in Sir Bobby's peak side (prior to Woodgate's arrival, and even then he was a crock so that doesn't change things), I'd argue Cabaye is on a par, if not better than, Rob Lee, and definitely better than Speed, Ben Arfa is comfortably better than Ginola and Robert, Sissoko and Tiote have no equivalents in both teams, and beyond the first eleven we just have much more depth (in all honesty, Perch > Stevie Watson as a utility player). The only area, again, where both Keegan and Sir Bobby had it better was up front (Beardo + Cole/Ferdinand/Shearer, Bellamy + Shearer).

 

Even if anyone wants to disagree and point to players who were good and not bettered in this squad (Gillespie and Dyer at the peak of their powers maybe), can it really be argued that it isn't very close between the 3 squads? Putting performances aside of course. 

 

Point being that whilst it's fair enough that this squad has only been "completed" a few weeks ago, if between now and the end of the season we don't start to see a gradual improvement on our teamplay, passing, movement, the types of chances created, the lesser players phased out and a system found that works (and incorporate as many of our best players as possible), and more importantly, at least half a a couple of games where we absolutely dominate a team from start to finish (not just thrash them in terms of a scoreline where we finish off a bunch of scrappy chances whilst they miss their changes, but rather we rape them in terms of possession + pegging them back in their own half + good chances creativited), if we don't improvement in those areas then I want Pardew gone, as the guy will only be wasting what on paper is a squad I'm sure most managers outside of the CL clubs would dream of having.

 

I wouldn't argue with much of that.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

This might be a bit contentious, but when I look at the players we have in this squad, aside from being thin up front, I don't remember us ever having anything like the depth and quality we have now throughout the Premiership era, even under Sir Bobby or Keegan. To list what we currently have:

 

One of the best keepers in the league.

Three decent-to-good Premiership centrebacks, two of whom are internationals for the bigger footballing nations.

Two very decent attacking fullbacks.

A ridiculous amount of quality in midfield (Cabaye, Tiote, Sissoko, Marveaux, Anita, and squad players like Bigirimana, Jonas, Perch, Obertan).

One of the most gifted players this club has had in Ben Arfa, up there with Beardo and Gazza.

Two good strikers in Cisse and Gouffran.

 

In all honesty, I reckon we're one world class striker away from having a better squad than both Keegan and Sir Bobby's teams - Colo alone is better than any of the defenders we had under Keegan whilst we had s*** defenders in Sir Bobby's peak side (prior to Woodgate's arrival, and even then he was a crock so that doesn't change things), I'd argue Cabaye is on a par, if not better than, Rob Lee, and definitely better than Speed, Ben Arfa is comfortably better than Ginola and Robert, Sissoko and Tiote have no equivalents in both teams, and beyond the first eleven we just have much more depth (in all honesty, Perch > Stevie Watson as a utility player). The only area, again, where both Keegan and Sir Bobby had it better was up front (Beardo + Cole/Ferdinand/Shearer, Bellamy + Shearer).

 

Even if anyone wants to disagree and point to players who were good and not bettered in this squad (Gillespie and Dyer at the peak of their powers maybe), can it really be argued that it isn't very close between the 3 squads? Putting performances aside of course. 

 

Point being that whilst it's fair enough that this squad has only been "completed" a few weeks ago, if between now and the end of the season we don't start to see a gradual improvement on our teamplay, passing, movement, the types of chances created, the lesser players phased out and a system found that works (and incorporate as many of our best players as possible), and more importantly, at least half a a couple of games where we absolutely dominate a team from start to finish (not just thrash them in terms of a scoreline where we finish off a bunch of scrappy chances whilst they miss their changes, but rather we rape them in terms of possession + pegging them back in their own half + good chances creativited), if we don't improvement in those areas then I want Pardew gone, as the guy will only be wasting what on paper is a squad I'm sure most managers outside of the CL clubs would dream of having.

 

I wouldn't argue with much of that.

I think the Premiership as a whole is better funded and and has better players compared with the 1990's and the early part of last decade.

[merlin]

He's got the mentality of a loser, and that's why he never will be a top manager.

 

He's not a winner like SAF or Mourinho. He's a negative, scared little coward.

 

I agree he is very negative when it's going against us but we aren't going to attract a manager of the profile you have mentioned

 

No s***

 

I just want a positive manager, like Martinez.

 

It's not about a positive manager, it's about a manager who sees football the way it should be seen. We can't seriously make a case that our squad is weaker than Soton, Norwich, Fulham, WBA, Stoke, WHam and yet we are sitting couple points behind them and without investments in the squad probably would've been even more points.

 

I mean for me Villa has the worst squad in the league, yet we somehow managed to give them a chance to come close to drawing with us after being up 2-0. I think this and last season we have relied to much on individual brilliance and that Pardew gets far more praise than he deserves after wins.

 

Agree, Felipao, and also with Mick's earlier post.

 

The next home game with Southampton will give us a decent view of whether Pardew is going to be able to use this squad to the best of its potential - Saints have just had a morale-boosting - and deserved - win over the PL Champs and seem to have responded to their new manager despite all the hot air spouted after the last one was fired...

 

However, there is NO way they should be compared man-for-man with the Newcastle squad, esp the first team. We should be comfortably winning games like this if the team is being set up and motivated correctly and as has been said, this squad has better players in some areas of the side than KK and SBR had although some of the claims are open to argument.

I am convinced that were KK managing this squad of players we would take teams like the Saints to the cleaners....I also reckon we would have been in with a chance of a result at Spurs although I'm not saying we would have won  ; we WOULD have caused them more problems though because KKs sides had far more movement about them, esp off the ball.

Someone claimed that Cabaye was 'comfortably' better than Rob Lee - he is maybe a better passer of the ball over distance, but he doesn't have Lee's engine over 90 mins and that sort of running off the ball is what this team doesn't do enough of...that is down to the manager and coaches.

 

We cannot afford to lose to Southampton at SJP - Villa are only 3 points behind us now so we need to keep out of the relegation scramble. Next Saturday's game will tell us much about how this side will develop under the current management and coaching staff.

[Ronaldo]

This might be a bit contentious, but when I look at the players we have in this squad, aside from being thin up front, I don't remember us ever having anything like the depth and quality we have now throughout the Premiership era, even under Sir Bobby or Keegan. To list what we currently have:

 

One of the best keepers in the league.

Three decent-to-good Premiership centrebacks, two of whom are internationals for the bigger footballing nations.

Two very decent attacking fullbacks.

A ridiculous amount of quality in midfield (Cabaye, Tiote, Sissoko, Marveaux, Anita, and squad players like Bigirimana, Jonas, Perch, Obertan).

One of the most gifted players this club has had in Ben Arfa, up there with Beardo and Gazza.

Two good strikers in Cisse and Gouffran.

 

In all honesty, I reckon we're one world class striker away from having a better squad than both Keegan and Sir Bobby's teams - Colo alone is better than any of the defenders we had under Keegan whilst we had s*** defenders in Sir Bobby's peak side (prior to Woodgate's arrival, and even then he was a crock so that doesn't change things), I'd argue Cabaye is on a par, if not better than, Rob Lee, and definitely better than Speed, Ben Arfa is comfortably better than Ginola and Robert, Sissoko and Tiote have no equivalents in both teams, and beyond the first eleven we just have much more depth (in all honesty, Perch > Stevie Watson as a utility player). The only area, again, where both Keegan and Sir Bobby had it better was up front (Beardo + Cole/Ferdinand/Shearer, Bellamy + Shearer).

 

Even if anyone wants to disagree and point to players who were good and not bettered in this squad (Gillespie and Dyer at the peak of their powers maybe), can it really be argued that it isn't very close between the 3 squads? Putting performances aside of course. 

 

Point being that whilst it's fair enough that this squad has only been "completed" a few weeks ago, if between now and the end of the season we don't start to see a gradual improvement on our teamplay, passing, movement, the types of chances created, the lesser players phased out and a system found that works (and incorporate as many of our best players as possible), and more importantly, at least half a a couple of games where we absolutely dominate a team from start to finish (not just thrash them in terms of a scoreline where we finish off a bunch of scrappy chances whilst they miss their changes, but rather we rape them in terms of possession + pegging them back in their own half + good chances creativited), if we don't improvement in those areas then I want Pardew gone, as the guy will only be wasting what on paper is a squad I'm sure most managers outside of the CL clubs would dream of having.

 

I'm convinced you weren't around for Keegan's side after reading that. Cabaye doesn't come close to how effective Rob Lee was for Keegan, nor does Ben Arfa match Robert's effectiveness for Bobby. And Perch better than Steve Watson as a utility man? I admire the optimism but do me a favour. Revisionist tripe.

[Tooj]

Much like Ginola Ben Arfa is a better footballer than Robert, just Robert's stats are outrageous.

 

I'm sure you know that is what people mean.

[AlanSkÃrare]

In terms of functionality and dynamics, this squad does not come close to Bobby's imo.

 

That team was built around certain attributes, pace being the most significant. The running and enthusiasm of Dyer, Bellamy and Jenas/Robert to a lesser extent was the foundation of our attacking play, allowing Solano and Robert to get into positions where they could feed Shearer. Speed being the heart and brains of that midfield. Player by player, maybe the individual ability is comparable, but looking at these teams, Pardew's side is still reliant on these individuals. It's reflected in his positioning of Ben Arfa more than anything.

[Flip]

Was pace really our most significant attribute?

 

[Guest Dontooner]

Pace of our passing is uncomparable , Bobby's team not only had pacey players but he instructed them to play at a much higher tempo.

Pardew's team passes the ball weak and too often gets crowded out when under pressure.

[NG32]

The only way this can now be judge is a fresh start next season with all the players retained, a new forward and centre back coming in to replace Colo.

 

Lets see how we go next season, if we stay up.

[Hughesy]

Was pace really our most significant attribute?

 

 

Yes.

[Cajun]

Agree with the Martinez is overrated comments.

 

As others have said he has been in this league long enough and has had similar resource to others who have managed to do a lot better than his usual just missing relegation every season.

 

I think he will be one of those managers who looks good with a team expected to struggle but if he moved to a better resourced side would be shown up. He probably realises this himself which is why he has turned down offers from bigger clubs.

 

Pardew now needs to get us performing well until the end of the season then I would be happy for him to prove himself next. If he can't then we will have to start looking elsewhere. I would rather play efficient football like last season and have something good to play for (CL) than play 'nice' football and battle to stay up every season though.

[Tooj]

What about playing turgid football like we have this season and battling relegation?