Darth Crooks Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Your idea of football sense seems to be "spending more money" then. And we wouldn't have had that top scorer had it not been for the clause under which he left, so to interpret that in terms of lack of ambition is daft. Clearly we'd have kept him if it had been possible. Yes; but only to an extent and when appropriate. I find it hard to believe that the majority of the Caroll money has been spent to the degree that's its had a truly effective impact. I don't see how you can set your sights at top ten, finish comfortably in the top 6 and not see that as a platform to invest. Not by daft amounts and stupid contracts a la Shepherd but just by showing a more assertive stance on transfer activity. That's exactly what you don't do, surely? Because you know you've overachieved and can't really bank on sustaining a serious assault on the top 4 You don't half lay on the hyperbole on those with the opposing view; as eloquent and as interesting a poster as you seem to be. I hasve never suggested an assault on the top four just that we invest to maintain our position in the top 7; as it stands we've got players in the 1st 11 regularly who aren't mid-championship standard, in vital positions too. That constitutes footballing sense to spend wisely in those areas to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 You're just whingeing, again, that we needed players X and Y and didn't get them, with no consideration for anything else. Doesn't matter how or who or how expensive, they just should've found a way, end of. Which is a simpler argument than I think has much relevance to a transfer window in the real world Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishMagpie Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I agree with the sentiment of wanting a stable, financially well run club but how anyone can think that this is the man to put our faith in is beyond me. He keeps going about wanting Cabaye and Ben Arfa back because now he's got no Ba he's got fuck all to hide behind. He's been extremely fortunate to have a few players that have been right on song or have individual brilliance. Can only rely on that for so long. For months he's harked about 'lacking creativity' 'needing our best players' back etc. Lets pretend that when he did have his 'best' players available at the start of the season we were doing well. How does the absence of these players mean we cant play basic football? eg. put a cross in or get a corner in to the box? Just what is our coaching team doing on the training pitches? There's no style of play being drilled in to this set of players. If he knew Cabs/HBA would be out for a while he should be training the remaining squad in how to do more with the football, fuck.... he should be doing that anyway! Our set penises for example, every time it's the same thing which does not work you fucking muppet! You would think he would be trying to teach them a variety of scenarios but even that seems beyond him. I can't recall once this season where he has got his tactics right from the start of match. We always limp in to half time to then be followed by substitions which have no footballing logic to them whatsoever. But my biggest grievance with him is that he's a reactive manager and not a proactive one. He spends all his time thinking about stopping the opposition (regardless of their level and which players are avaiable to him) and not enough about enhancing our positives and making them worry about us for a change. Pards newcastle team must be the most predictable team to play against. I bet Chris had his homework done on us before susana reid was off the telly on monday morning. I'll echo what someone has said in a few posts back and say it looks like he's losing the dressing room and never seen a manager return from that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuy_O Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 did everyone catch the "Cabaye will be like a new signing" from Pardew?! Its gone beyond ludicrous now. Its full blown farce Tbf a lot of managers use that term, cliche central that like. Sorta the reason I though Pardew would surely avoid using that line, as its the most bullshit cliche around. Especially given what isn't going on regarding transfers. But their we go, he's said it, earlier than I expected aswell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Where I have stated they should just spend whatever it takes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 That was to Dave. I've got to go I'm afraid, back on later. I do enjoy this... Realise my take on it winds people up but in the main people on here argue very well so it's fun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Where I have stated they should just spend whatever it takes? You clearly want the club to go under, like Portsmouth or Leeds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 You're just whingeing, again, that we needed players X and Y and didn't get them, with no consideration for anything else. Doesn't matter how or who or how expensive, they just should've found a way, end of. Which is a simpler argument than I think has much relevance to a transfer window in the real world How much has it cost us by not getting player X and player Y? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 did everyone catch the "Cabaye will be like a new signing" from Pardew?! Its gone beyond ludicrous now. Its full blown farce Tbf a lot of managers use that term, cliche central that like. Sorta the reason I though Pardew would surely avoid using that line, as its the most bullshit cliche around. Especially given what isn't going on regarding transfers. But their we go, he's said it, earlier than I expected aswell. Reckon managers must think it sounds great, we as fans dont half hate it. He's gonna say it lot with players he expects back in the next few games Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuy_O Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 So the only options are: 1. Run the club tight as f*** like Mike Ashley. 2. Run the club irresponsible as f*** like Freddy Shepherd. Righto. No. It comes down to whether you think Ashley is being tight as f***, or merely sensible. "Tight as f***" shouldn't come into it anyway; the club makes enough money to compete and if Ashley is running it responsibly within that budget, we will do ok. Here's a question. If our scouting team are so talented and the considerations the club take when deciding to invest in a player so bulletproof, why don't the club trust them enough to put up the requisite money in the transfer market? We allegedly wanted Debuchy, a centre half and a striker in the summer, but wouldn't spend the money required to get any of them. As a direct result of this (and the manager agrees) we're two points above the relegation zone over halfway through the season, after finishing 5th last time out. I genuinely believed the Cisse signing was a sign that we were prepared to move in the right direction. Not simply because he cost more, but because we were already doing well. The summer showed once again that they value money in the bank over results on the pitch. It's the same reason that we're willing to jeopardise up to nine massively important points in January by continuing to play Williamson when he's not been good enough all season, and continuing to go without a replacement for our top scorer who's been widely expected to leave for months thanks to a clause we had no control over. Depends what you mean by the requisite money, as opposed to too much money. They backed the scouting department by going in for him. Again, the right direction in your book just seems to be spending more money. And how many million do you think you'd recommend lashing out on getting a centre half over the line right now, to play in these three January games? A short term vision if their ever was one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 That was to Dave. I've got to go I'm afraid, back on later. I do enjoy this... Realise my take on it winds people up but in the main people on here argue very well so it's fun You're inventing an argument which doesn't exist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Where I have stated they should just spend whatever it takes? You clearly want the club to go under, like Portsmouth or Leeds. There's your black and white, either/or twitch again. I'll be looking out for that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 That was to Dave. I've got to go I'm afraid, back on later. I do enjoy this... Realise my take on it winds people up but in the main people on here argue very well so it's fun You're inventing an argument which doesn't exist. It does now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 That was to Dave. I've got to go I'm afraid, back on later. I do enjoy this... Realise my take on it winds people up but in the main people on here argue very well so it's fun You are completely intitled to your views no matter how mental they actually are, and please continue, its fascinating to watch care in the commmunity in action Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Where I have stated they should just spend whatever it takes? You clearly want the club to go under, like Portsmouth or Leeds. Probs wasn't aimed at me but tbh I don't see where Dave insuated that either FWIW I think that the debate on the club model is healthy. I like many seek a hallowed middle ground between austerity and spending. The downtrodden Lib Dems of football if you will. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 There's your black and white, either/or twitch again. I'll be looking out for that Why don't you use your real name on here, Derek. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuy_O Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 The club 'model' is a myth imo. The club is ran on the cheap with zero ambition, with any expenditure reduction designed to benefit Ashley more than the club, although they always tell us it's the other way round. We bought well last season then Llambias comes as if we've been doing it for years, making it up as he goes along. Everyone harps on about the pro's of our policy, and indeed they are numerous, but the con's are clear aswell and they are in danger of sending us down (coupled with a manager running out of idea's) The one's who back Ashley seem to push the debate that those who want cash spent are wanting some sort of Man City style spending. Not the case at all. Middle ground in the policy, not a complete stubbornness to exceed ever so slightly with the spending. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 did everyone catch the "Cabaye will be like a new signing" from Pardew?! Its gone beyond ludicrous now. Its full blown farce Tbf a lot of managers use that term, cliche central that like. Yeah they do, but in our current situation and the fact we dont sign players that we need. I feel like its a stupid thign to say, naive at best, and insulting at worst True, it isn't the most thoughtful thing to say. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt over it though, and i hate Pardew tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gleebals Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Well, with all our players coming back he really has no excuses left. Nor do the board on signings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Where I have stated they should just spend whatever it takes? You clearly want the club to go under, like Portsmouth or Leeds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 The club 'model' is a myth imo. The club is ran on the cheap with zero ambition, with any expenditure reduction designed to benefit Ashley more than the club, although they always tell us it's the other way round. Everyone harps on about the pro's of our policy, and indeed their are numerous, but the con's are clear aswell and they are in danger of sending us down (coupled with a manager running out of idea's) The one's who back Ashley seem to push the debate that those who want cash spent are wanting some sort of Man City style spending. Not the case at all. Middle ground in the policy, not a complete stubbornness to exceed ever so slightly with the spending. In no way am i sticking up for Ashley here. They have been willing to buy players, but only at their valuation, however commendable that appears, it shouldn't leave you weak, as it has us. We aren't talking about going mental, but it looks like we have not signed players because the sellers want a million or so more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Well, with all our players coming back he really has no excuses left. Nor do the board on signings. http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdd46e5AAV1qmy8hdo1_500.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuy_O Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 The club 'model' is a myth imo. The club is ran on the cheap with zero ambition, with any expenditure reduction designed to benefit Ashley more than the club, although they always tell us it's the other way round. Everyone harps on about the pro's of our policy, and indeed their are numerous, but the con's are clear aswell and they are in danger of sending us down (coupled with a manager running out of idea's) The one's who back Ashley seem to push the debate that those who want cash spent are wanting some sort of Man City style spending. Not the case at all. Middle ground in the policy, not a complete stubbornness to exceed ever so slightly with the spending. In know way am i sticking up for Ashley here. They have been willing to buy players, but only at their valuation, however commendable that appears, it shouldn't leave you weak, as it has us. We aren't talking about going mental, but it looks like we have not signed players because the sellers want a million or so more. Aye. Most frustrating part of it. Ashley and Llambias know f*** all about football, lets be honest. They are aided here by a renowned scout, and even with his help they are risking our status in this league by showing absolutely no middle ground. The comment above regarding Leeds / Portsmouth is ridiculous and the point I alluded to earlier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 There's your black and white, either/or twitch again. I'll be looking out for that Why don't you use your real name on here, Derek. He's not Derek Llambias, I know him in real life. These arguments have relocated from my Facebook page to N-O. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Glad to see someone else is taking the flak for an evening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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