How highly do you rate... Robert Pires?

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

2 Good videos on the Tube on Tony Adams. 

 

'The art of the leadership'

 

and the full 30 minutes of ESPN's Legends of the Premiership.

[ponsaelius]

Nah he's not out there anymore

 

 

[Dinho lad]

Caprice. 

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

In my mind Swelley has just phoned him up to check. 

[Beren]

In my mind Swelley has just phoned him up to check. 

 

This.

[Ronaldo]

I'm not sure you can pigeonhole Shearer like that. In his prime he was almost the complete forward.

 

As for Adams, I remember him being great.

 

Perhaps, but he hardly had the same technical ability as modern day forwards - Tevez, Aguerro, Messi, etc. He was more like Drogba in that he was about determination and battling up alongside the defenders, using his strength and body to create space and gaps, rather than dropping into the pockets.

 

They're hardly 'modern day forwards' like. They're 3 of the very best attacking players in the world - and their types were around during Shearer's peak.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

I'm not sure you can pigeonhole Shearer like that. In his prime he was almost the complete forward.

 

As for Adams, I remember him being great.

 

Perhaps, but he hardly had the same technical ability as modern day forwards - Tevez, Aguerro, Messi, etc. He was more like Drogba in that he was about determination and battling up alongside the defenders, using his strength and body to create space and gaps, rather than dropping into the pockets.

 

They're hardly 'modern day forwards' like. They're 3 of the very best attacking players in the world - and their types were around during Shearer's peak.

 

Well, I'll be happy to read your explanation in detail.

[Minhosa]

Best centre back I've seen live. An unbelievable player. Seemed to know what was happening minutes before it did, marshalled an unreal back line and was sensational in the air.

 

There's nobody I can think of who can touch him in recent years.

[Ronaldo]

I'm not sure you can pigeonhole Shearer like that. In his prime he was almost the complete forward.

 

As for Adams, I remember him being great.

 

Perhaps, but he hardly had the same technical ability as modern day forwards - Tevez, Aguerro, Messi, etc. He was more like Drogba in that he was about determination and battling up alongside the defenders, using his strength and body to create space and gaps, rather than dropping into the pockets.

 

They're hardly 'modern day forwards' like. They're 3 of the very best attacking players in the world - and their types were around during Shearer's peak.

 

Well, I'll be happy to read your explanation in detail.

 

Nowt to explain, really. We've seen an influx of more technical players in the last 15 years or so. Forwards aren't changing, we're just seeing a far more diverse sample in the PL.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Ronaldo, I want to think you're a good poster, but you far too often say something and then never give any details.

 

Neymar

Messi

Aguerro

Tevez

Suarez

Ronaldo

Rooney

Van Persia

David Villa

 

Score goals, technically very good, agile, balance, link up play, no 'fixed' position/don't square up against the centrebacks ala Shearer/Drogba/Ferguson/Ferdinand - the old style centreforwards. Yes, football has changed, which is why I said 'modern forwards'.

[Beren]

Ronaldo, I want to think you're a good poster, but...

 

Teacher, by any chance?

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Close enough. 

[Ronaldo]

Ronaldo, I want to think you're a good poster, but you far too often say something and then never give any details.

 

Neymar

Messi

Aguerro

Tevez

Suarez

Ronaldo

Rooney

Van Persia

David Villa

 

Score goals, technically very good, agile, balance, link up play, no 'fixed' position/don't square up against the centrebacks ala Shearer/Drogba/Ferguson/Ferdinand - the old style centreforwards. Yes, football has changed, which is why I said 'modern forwards'.

 

You're having a laugh, right?

 

As I said, we're seeing a more diverse sample. Nowt's really changed; it's just changed places.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Again, you're just typing but not really proving a point. Also by nature if a sample is becoming more diverse there must have been a change?

[Ronaldo]

Yes. It's called increased foreign presence.

 

Not trying to sound dismissive, dude. I just can't be bothered to go into too much depth with this. But there were forwards of Tevez and Aguero's type in Shearer's day - they were just outside the PL. Messi is a force of nature that can't really compared to anyone, ever in terms of ability as far as I can see.

[Tiresias]

I remember when the guardian went round and asked all the defenders in spain how to deal with Messi before the Man U Barca final and they pretty much all said 'how the fuck should i know he scored 4 past me'

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Well, then I shall be dismissive - if you can't be bothered to debate, don't expect people to put much credit into your posts. You're saying there were players of Tevez and Aguerro's ability in Shearer's day - who? Romario? Hagi? Are they not just precursors of the shift towards the modern forward, which is a combination of the atypical #10 (European) and #9?

 

If there is an increased foreign presence in the Premiership, and these are the forwards they choose to sign, does that not suggest that these are 'modern forwards', and the days of the back to goal, elbows out, forwards are slowly diminishing at the top flight? Grant Holt is a 'surprise' as he's a throwback to that style of forward. Look at the centrebacks people are buying, are they taller bruisers who will battle mainly in the air, or are they players that are composed with the ball, and can compete in the air and the ground? The change is mainly due to managers wanting to build out from the back, but also the change in where the threat is coming from.

 

Attacks don't down the wings as much now, and that's mainly because teams have a forward that wants the ball into feet as they work through the middle.

[Ronaldo]

I don't expect any credit. Actually that's a lie, I most certainly do.

 

I think it's a little lazy of you to use players like Aguero and Duncan Ferguson as examples of strikers at certain points in time. They represent two extremes, both of which have always and will always exist.

[Tooj]

Now I've just had a random flashback to Ruben Sosa. Lovely centre forward.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Sure, but there are more Aguero type players than their are Duncan Fergusons in top flight football now, compared to say in Duncan Ferguson's hayday. Even the players of similar physical stature of Ferguson are more technical advanced now within top flight football, which is only a natural progression of the advancing game... and the modern forward (think Ibrahimovic/Klose/Falcao, etc).

[Ronaldo]

How many English forwards are there starting in the PL, though?

 

Look at us: you have Ba, Cisse and Ameobi. Spot the one who was developed in this country.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Please explain on how that is relevant towards the discussion we're having about modern strikers - unless you're suggesting that English forwards are not of that caliber, in which case I'd agree (and that is mainly down to coaching/tradition - physicality over technique). At no point have I denied more foreign players are becoming a huge factor in the Premiership, that's not the debate we're having here. What you're saying is that there's no such thing as a modern forward, and if there was it wouldn't be players like Neymar, Messi, David Villa, Rooney, Aguero, Tevez, El Shaarawy, di Natale, whereas I  believe the modern forward is someone who is smaller, mobile (agile/acceleration/balance), technical, robust (balance/strength), finishers, creators, play between the lines, etc. which in turn is leading to a shift in the type of defenders people are buying today... which is why I'd like to see a video of Tony Adams play against Zola.

 

We'll probably always have poachers and targetmen but they're becoming increasingly rare within the game at the moment as they're too specialised - think of the times that Hernandez at Man U is used. Even Cisse this season, he works best in the box, for example.

[Disco]

Now I've just had a random flashback to Ruben Sosa. Lovely centre forward.

 

Brought up randomly the other day by KenDahl IIRC in some other thread, someone I'd totally forgotten about but a master none the less.

 

Adams despite his limitations was a superb player, comfortable playing the covering defender alongside Keown/Linighan or the attacking defender when needs be. Slow (and I remember him getting turned inside out for a couple of goals against us) but didn't really need to be fast such was his natural ability for defending. Not amongst the best but certainly amongst the best English, not a similar player but similar in rep to John Terry to me.

[Incognito]

From 86 through to 94, I always thought the Donkey tag was well suited to him. From 95 until he retired he improved so much that during this time , especially 96 to 99 , there weren't many better centre halfs in World football.

 

I think George Graham getting the push from Arsenal and Terry Venables becoming England manager are the main catalyst of this coupled with Arsene taking the reins at Highbury, and forcing Adams to be a footballer as well as a no nonsense defender. Loved his goal against Everton that sealed one of their titles.

[Guest tollemache]

Now I've just had a random flashback to Ruben Sosa. Lovely centre forward.

 

Remember his hat-trick of piledriven free kicks v... Lazio I think it was? Just humped into the roof of the net from way out

 

Also a bicycle kick from a silly angle, from a long ball by Wim Jonk. See if I can find it... OK, can't remember the exact rules on youtube links but if you search on there for "Ruben Sosa al INTER (1992-1995)" it's goal number 2, near the end. Also against Lazio.