Disco Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 We have the worst of both worlds at the moment really. We have the commercialisation and lack of soul of American sport, but without the customer service and match-going experience. You have to pay a fortune, but you also have to freeze your arse off in a tiny seat, get treated like scum by police and stewards, and not be able to get a cup of tea at Craven Cottage. I'm not sure about fans having a stake in the club, we have such different views. Not many businesses can operate as a democracy of their customers. The biggest hope I have is that financial fair play will actually work. The fact that clubs can be bought and owned by oligarchs and sovereign states has basically rendered sporting competition obsolete. Nobody can hope of winning the league any more, which is sad. Luckily for football, it has enough interest and excitement on a match-by-match basis that it doesn't matter so much that the bigger picture is completely futile. I don't think it's about stuff like sorting out who plays/manages or stuff like that, that would be madness. Fans involvement needs to be on fan issues such as ticket prices, safe standing, a halt to the rampant commercialism and ripping people at every turn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 They were never "our" clubs to start with, at least not in living memory, but the Premier League has succeeded in putting as big a gap as possible between fans and club, to the point that, in their eyes, it's not "clubs and fans", it is "clubs and customers". Wankers like Scudamore will take no persuasion to start believing that the shirt-buying, televised match watching hordes in Asia are more important than the people who go through the gates. In fact, i would be amazed if he didn't already think that. Television money both home and abroad means that the people in the stadium are amongst the least important. Anyway, fucking Chelsea, "we want our club back" - what the fuck? Where was this sense of indignant passion when their club was buying trophies (including the big one they bought in May) and foreign supporters with money Abrahmovich effectively stole from the Russian people? Plastic wankers, fuck them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SweMatt Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 The biggest hope I have is that financial fair play will actually work. The fact that clubs can be bought and owned by oligarchs and sovereign states has basically rendered sporting competition obsolete. Nobody can hope of winning the league any more, which is sad. I wish that system would work, but I have no high hopes. It will be a battle between suits from Man City, Paris SG, Chelsea, Zenit etc vs UEFA regulators. I know where I would put my money. I agree totally with you though. It is a very sad development, and it will decrease general interest in football over time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Fluffy idea, neevr going to happen...WAY to much money to be made. You think Ashley n co would hand over the clubs to randoms like us, we have f***ing pardew out thread with over 35 pages of discussion sure about that ? Ok, let me rephrase...there is far to much money sloshing about in English football...The people who run the game will not hand it over to fans. And really, there is plenty of money to be made, for agents, players, managers and choaching staff etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 NUSC What is this NUSC you speak off ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 NUSC What is this NUSC you speak off ?? It's a kinky perverted group who fantasise about the bloke that invented X Factor. Necrophiliacs Undress Simon Cowell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 surely in order to get something back, you have to own it in the first place ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 What is a football club? What is a football club? Before you can decide what a club should do, you really need to have a clear picture of what it is for. Such questions are rarely, if ever, asked in English football; such a failure may explain the fact that if we try to reverse engineer a club’s purpose from its activities, we’d get a strange variety of answers. A football club would appear to be a pension fund, a property development opportunity, a means to make a major capital gain on sale, a millstone, a tax dodge, an egotrip, a nest-egg, a birthday present, a promotional tool, a political tool and a business opportunity; the list is far from exhaustive. All of this is odd, not least because none of the clubs were ever founded with this in mind and, to use the jargon, there’s clearly been a bit of mission creep. So what is a club then? It is, of course, about the team and the matches. But to say a club is some people who play football is like saying a marriage is about two people who know each other, or a family is group of people who live in the same house. All true, but getting absolutely nowhere to the heart of what really defines them. If you listen to some of the loudest and most powerful voices in the game, the only thing supporters want is results, pretty football and star players. Of course, it’s a truism that no-one wants to see their team lose each week, but to narrow the focus so much misses a more fundamental truth. What we also want – and get – is much more enduring and personal: solace, joy, remembrance, hope, relaxation, distraction, anticipation, communion and energy. And that’s just the person next to you in the ground. But the magic of football is to take that personal story of what the club means to you and make it the same as that of every one of the hundreds, thousands of millions of people who share an allegiance to a club. As you look upon the face of a fellow fan at a moment of joy or despair, you know you are looking at someone just like you. That desire for communality, for community, is one of the most important human needs, and is why the game is so successful, so ubiquitous and so important. We love clubs because of what they are, not for what they do. The rest of it is well worth a read, by the way. http://www.uk.coop/sites/default/files/docs/insight3_bara_0.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/02/borussia-dortmund-premier-league Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/02/borussia-dortmund-premier-league Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Saw that posted earlier in NWOAT but was swamped under the Bimpy stuff It's a good read and i agree completely agree with it would be nice if we could learn from the German model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Saw that posted earlier in NWOAT but was swamped under the Bimpy stuff It's a good read and i agree completely agree with it would be nice if we could learn from the German model. Unfortunately I think the Premier League is too far gone for that. Poisonous money-obsessed charlatans like Scudamore have taken the game away from its core. We get off lightly up here really, for all Ashley's faults, pricing is not one of them. Alan Davies had a good rant about it on the Tuesday Club recently, about the kids in North London that simply can't afford to ever see their team any more and the non-atmosphere it has created in a new ground. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Yeah i agree completely there's little to no chance of it happening honestly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistle17 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/02/borussia-dortmund-premier-league That's an incredibly depressing read. Just shows how low English football has sunk. It really is such a load of over-hyped rubbish (Premiership). If English football ever does make a 'U-Turn' back to its roots, it won't be for a very long time- and by then it'll probably have completely lost the traditional working class, hardcore support that has been the lifeblood of the game in this country for so long. It is incredible that the remaining hardcore fans have made so many sacrifices to follow their team up and down the country, sticking by their club when households all over the country are being completely stretched financially yet still dishing out a criminal amount of money to watch a game of football. The prices that Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Man City and Man United all charge for away (and home) fans especially is sickening. If people don't go then the prices will eventually have to be lowered. But when tourists/fans from abroad are more than willing to lap up surplus tickets neglected by the locals, it sums it up tbh. Football in this country is just completely backwards. From grassroots to elite level, on the pitch and off it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinotheprehistoricgeordie Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I know people are saying that a club couldn't exist without fans but is that even true anymore? The amount of money clubs are getting from Sky etc are constantly increasing. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the future it is literally more financially viable for some of the smaller clubs to run themselves without supporters, no stadium costs, no staff to pay etc. Just hire out a field and let the players do their thing Or maybe sell virtual seats to punters in asia. Wigan seem to be doing ok with their 10 fans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I know people are saying that a club couldn't exist without fans but is that even true anymore? The amount of money clubs are getting from Sky etc are constantly increasing. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the future it is literally more financially viable for some of the smaller clubs to run themselves without supporters, no stadium costs, no staff to pay etc. Just hire out a field and let the players do their thing Or maybe sell virtual seats to punters in asia. Wigan seem to be doing ok with their 10 fans. That would be true but a club doing that would simply be fucked if relegated. Wigan are still bankrolled by Dave Whlean to around £10m a year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinotheprehistoricgeordie Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I know people are saying that a club couldn't exist without fans but is that even true anymore? The amount of money clubs are getting from Sky etc are constantly increasing. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the future it is literally more financially viable for some of the smaller clubs to run themselves without supporters, no stadium costs, no staff to pay etc. Just hire out a field and let the players do their thing Or maybe sell virtual seats to punters in asia. Wigan seem to be doing ok with their 10 fans. That would be true but a club doing that would simply be fucked if relegated. Wigan are still bankrolled by Dave Whlean to around £10m a year. Ah, fair enough. Still I wouldn't be totally shocked if one day.......... Just read that Guardian article Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2012/dec/02/ermany-bundesliga-noisy-fans - another canny piece and another that makes me want to be a German ST holder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinotheprehistoricgeordie Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Makes me wonder what we as fans could do to improve our club. If only we could get decent dialogue going with our owners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 We're not considered as fans anymore in England thanks to the Premier League we are simply customers/consumers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Makes me wonder what we as fans could do to improve our club. If only we could get decent dialogue going with our owners. I'll give Dekka some credit, they've expanded the family section massively which imo is a step in the right direction though the fact we need such a big one to fill the stadium speaks volumes of the amount of fans that have given up going to SJP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevo Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Standing section in the lower half of the Gallowgate would sort SJP out IMO. It will never happen, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Standing section in the lower half of the Gallowgate would sort SJP out IMO. It will never happen, though. Well it can't happen at the moment because it's against the rules. What do you reckong is the main advantage of standing, people being able to move to be beside their mates? For me the problem in SJP is that there are so many people who don't want to sing. What we need is a singing section back, I don't think it matters if it is standing or sitting really. Personally I much prefer to sit down at the match, but I can be a lazy bastard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuneaton Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Its grim as fuck on here at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 It could happen: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/aston-villa/9636019/Aston-Villa-offer-to-trial-standing-areas.html Apparently, the problem is that not enough of the top flight clubs support it. It's also worth remembering that converting areas from seating to standing doesn't mean just ripping the seats out, it will involve expense in converting the areas in question, and a lot of clubs will be against the proposal on that basis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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