Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa joins AS Roma then Lyon

[Sifu]

Who's written him off apart from Crumpy?

 

My point still stands though, some people are just too quick to judge a player who is still adapting so to speak. Sometimes people need to take a step back and breathe and think through things logically.

 

As it stands, our defence is a complete horror show but chopping and changing is not the way, it can ultimately set a player back a bit in terms of confidence. Bringing back Taylor/Williamson is a risk for me because:

 

1) Taylor almost tries too hard and his "Super Geordie" attitude gets him into more trouble than it should.

 

2) Williamson has demonstrated that he can be a big liability if his confidence goes.

[Ronaldo]

Williamson's generally always a liability. Taylor can be a liability but is usually a solid defender.

[Kanji]

The Mapou thread has turned into the state of our defense thread....

 

Defence.

 

My bad.

[Unbelievable]

We can talk until the cows come home about organisation, Pardew, pressing, defending as a team, etc, but it doesn't detract from the fact that the primary reason the contest was over before it had eveb begun was individual mistakes by four of our back five.

 

Which happen week in and week out...

 

No they don't.

 

a lot of the goals we concede appear to be down to this,

 

How many times have people slagged off various players already? Debuchy, Santon, Colo and & Mbiwa last night.

 

We must have some of the most error prone defenders in the league.

 

Well, there wouldn't be many mistakes in football if players didn't make mistakes. Our players aren't perfect, they make mistakes, as does every other defender. When they do, they deserve criticism, and when it happens often, they need dropping or replacing. I'm not denying defensive organisation is part of the problem (our high number of goals conceeded since the start of last season), but there's more to it than that, such as seasoned professionals not even challenging for a bouncing goal kick..

 

It appears their is a lack of ownership being taken by everyone in the team.

 

But Pardew is the one selecting the players, he's the one coaching them day in and day out. No one should have a clearer idea of who is good at what.

 

Every single player we've bought has regressed under him.

 

Pardew must go, I don't need convincing about that. It just bugs me people will blindly point at him and let Colo off the hook for schoolboy errors the latter (and others) made..

 

But there's no solution to that other than getting shot of the manager is there? Yes we can buy four centre halves in January, two new full backs, along with a new midfield and three new forward players (arf!) but is anyone convinced that would solve the problem? I'd put heavy wedge on the new players making exactly the same cock-ups a year down the line. Sick of reading the same constant cycle of criticism, which comes up with the valuable insight that all the players in the entire squad are s*** (apart from the one who's only been here a month, funny that) and that what we really need in the team right now is the ones who've been out of the team for a while because I've forgotten how s*** they are.

 

I don't think it really needs pointing out that the players individually and as a team have been dreadful for over a year. Pointing out individual errors isn't going to solve the problem, and going off the evidence of last January, nor is replacing the players. So what's the solution? There's only one.

 

I don't disagree in the slightest. In the meantime, huge individual errors leading to opposition goals are deserving of criticism post match, just like they always are. If people can't deal with that, I'd suggest they stay in the Pardew thread, which coincidentally I'm trying to avoid as it's the type of threadmill "debate" I can't stand to read on a daily basis.

 

I doubt there's anybody that can't deal with it but what's the point?

 

"Player A was absolutely s*** tonight! He needs dropping immediately!"

*dropped*

"Replacement X was absolutely s*** tonight! We need to buy a new player immediately!"

*three months later*

"Transfer B was absolutely s*** tonight! What we need is to go back to basics - Player A back immediately!"

 

The problem isn't going to improve until the underlying problem is removed. You think bumping the Pardew thread is dull - personally I think bumping the threads of 7 or 8 individual players after each and every game and moaning about how s*** they all are (and wondering about what a massive coincidence it is that Newcastle have signed loads of players with excellent pedigree, international caps and European league titles that have turned out to be worse than Mike Williamson) is infinitely more pointless.

 

On a higher level, replacing Pardew by the next cheap, underwhelming manager willing to take the job on Ashley's terms, most probably Kinnear as we all know, will get us nowhere. The underlying problem to your underlying problem is the actual problem. In the meantime, I will praise and criticise whomever I think has deserved it based on their own performance, be it the players when they've played well/badly, the manager when he's got it right or wrong, and even Mike Ashley in the eventuality he finally gets it right/likelihood he royally fucks up next.

[Cronky]

When Mapou arrived, a lot of us thought he would be Colo's replacement rather than his partner, given his style of play. In the usual way of pairing centre backs, it would be one of Mapou / Colo with Taylor or Williamson.

 

I think all that people are saying is Colo and Mapou may not be the best combination, and that partnering one or the other with someone more rugged would be better. At the moment, Willo is the only candidate there.

 

FWIW, I don't think Willo is half as bad as many have made him out to be. Certainly, there are just as many drawbacks in picking Taylor.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

When Mapou arrived, a lot of us thought he would be Colo's replacement rather than his partner, given his style of play. In the usual way of pairing centre backs, it would be one of Mapou / Colo with Taylor or Williamson.

 

I think all that people are saying is Colo and Mapou may not be the best combination, and that partnering one or the other with someone more rugged would be better. At the moment, Willo is the only candidate there.

 

FWIW, I don't think Willo is half as bad as many have made him out to be. Certainly, there are just as many drawbacks in picking Taylor.

 

Yep, long term he will replace Colo, but in the meantime Colo/Mapou is still our best option (all things considered).

[Ronaldo]

Does somebody want to explain to me what Mike Williamson does better than Taylor, apart from keep his gob shut in the local press?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Does somebody want to explain to me what Mike Williamson does better than Taylor, apart from keep his gob shut in the local press?

 

Nothing really, he's just not quite as noticeably comedic.

[Sifu]

Williamson's generally always a liability. Taylor can be a liability but is usually a solid defender.

 

Taylor's too prone to rushes of blood to the head, he has proven to be a solid CB in the past, I won't deny that but he really needs to calm down a little.

[Ronaldo]

in the meantime Colo/Mapou is still our best option (all things considered).

 

Despite the fact that they're both small, weak and neither of them can mark. OK, Ian.

[Felling Mag]

The Mapou thread has turned into the state of our defense thread....

 

Defence.

 

Defenz.

 

http://confessionsofacurlymind.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/michael-douglas-as-d-fens.jpg

[AyeDubbleYoo]

in the meantime Colo/Mapou is still our best option (all things considered).

 

Despite the fact that they're both small, weak and neither of them can mark. OK, Ian.

 

Think you may be exaggerating slightly there Ronaldo.

[Ronaldo]

Maybe this is all just a dream.

[Cronky]

Does somebody want to explain to me what Mike Williamson does better than Taylor, apart from keep his gob shut in the local press?

 

I'll repeat a point I've made before. Despite his power and athleticism, Taylor does not seem to impose himself enough on the game. He tends to back off, staying goalside to avoid getting beaten, relying on blocking rather than intercepting or tackling.

 

In terms of general ability, Williamson probably doesn't have anything over Taylor. (His distribution may be a bit better, but both are poor so I won't labour that point) In fact Taylor is stronger and quicker. But in terms of his style of defending, Williamson is much more pro-active. Crucially, he gets closer to his opponent. He's less worried about making mistakes and takes more initiative.

[Ronaldo]

There's no way Williamson's better on the ball than Taylor, like. Taylor's passing's actually come on a tonne.

[jimmymag]

Does somebody want to explain to me what Mike Williamson does better than Taylor, apart from keep his gob shut in the local press?

 

I'll repeat a point I've made before. Despite his power and athleticism, Taylor does not seem to impose himself enough on the game. He tends to back off, staying goalside to avoid getting beaten, relying on blocking rather than intercepting or tackling.

 

In terms of general ability, Williamson probably doesn't have anything over Taylor. (His distribution may be a bit better, but both are poor so I won't labour that point) In fact Taylor is stronger and quicker. But in terms of his style of defending, Williamson is much more pro-active. Crucially, he gets closer to his opponent. He's less worried about making mistakes and takes more initiative.

 

Williamson's distribution is better than Taylor's??? Fucking amazing!

 

Williamson looked OK last night only because Everton were shit in the 2nd half. Williamson is not a Premiership player!

 

So many short memories on here.

[Ronaldo]

Yep.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Williamson in general is a terrible player, Taylor is acceptable with comedy moments.

[r0cafella]

Williamson lumps it when he's not even pressed and has passing options.

 

He's the most blinkered player I've ever seen to be honest.

[Cronky]

There's no way Williamson's better on the ball than Taylor, like. Taylor's passing's actually come on a tonne.

 

Well I'm not sure about that, but as I said, that's not a big issue for me. My main point is that Williamson actually defends in a different way. You haven't commented on that.

 

 

[Ronaldo]

Williamson defends like a Championship player with arthritis. Happy?

[Cronky]

Williamson defends like a Championship player with arthritis. Happy?

 

I'm looking for some indication that you've actually understood my point about Taylor's style of defending, but disagree with it.

[Ronaldo]

Taylor will make mistakes but he's physically decent and won't bend over for the opposition like we saw last night.

[alexf]

Thinking back to the last time we were decent defensively in the 5th place season and it's easy to forget we had two stay home full backs in Simpson and for at least about a half of the season R.Taylor.

We also had Cabaye who apart from the odd occasion later in the season played very deep and made plenty of tackles. We had the good version of Tiote before he turned shit. We had Jonas who was playing as a very defensive winger most of the time and doing a very good job of it (stoke away as the perfect example).

 

So when you compare that to now it's easy to see that there are far more elements to this poor defence than simply saying our centre backs are poor.

 

Hate to drone on but again most of this is down to the manager and how he setting up the team.

We can still field Williamson/Taylor, Colo,Santon,Krul, Cabaye,Tiote and Jonas from those that were here in a defensive sense from the 5th placed season. It is not the personal it is how they are being set up and trained. 

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

Taylor will make mistakes but he's physically decent and won't bend over for the opposition like we saw last night.

Yeah he was brilliant in his last performance. I cannot wait until the guy returns so he run around consistently hurting the team, puffing his chest out, playing to the supporters, and suffering another "unfortunate injury".