Unbelievable Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Coloccini is not beyond criticism after last night but the reaction has been way over the top. He's the best defender at the club and has been for years. Not a single defender has performed to as high a standard for years and he's possibly the best central defender we've had in my lifetime. All true. I wish it changed the fact that he's showing signs of not being able to compete in the PL but it doesn't. It's not all true. He wasn't great in his first season, and last season was no less than pathetic, with him essentially trying to jump ship for nowt leaving the club in the lurch when its Premiership status was on the line, and this from our captain no less. He's had three very good seasons, one of which was in the Championship, but he's also always had very clearly defineable weaknesses, that the type of striker that Lukaku is exposes time and time again. He's probably been our best defender since I started following NUFC, but that's not really saying much sadly. He's most certainly not above criticism, as even Mick seems to agree, so I don't understand why it bugs him so much when he is justifyingly criticised for a(nother) poor performance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 If the CBs did their job properly we'd have conceded 0 goals in that first half. We're such an easy f***ing mark. We should be playing as a team and we didn't, it's 11 v 11, not 11 v2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 If the CBs did their job properly we'd have conceded 0 goals in that first half. We're such an easy f***ing mark. We should be playing as a team and we didn't, it's 11 v 11, not 11 v2. our defenders could start by learning the basics of defending the kind of thing they should already know and not shit their pants at the sight of Lukaku and it would have been a decent start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 our defenders could start by learning the basics of defending the kind of thing they should already know and not s*** their pants at the sight of Lukaku and it would have been a decent start. They know the basics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 our defenders could start by learning the basics of defending the kind of thing they should already know and not s*** their pants at the sight of Lukaku and it would have been a decent start. They know the basics. could have fooled me on their first half performance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 We can talk until the cows come home about organisation, Pardew, pressing, defending as a team, etc, but it doesn't detract from the fact that the primary reason the contest was over before it had even begun was individual mistakes by four of our back five. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 We can talk until the cows come home about organisation, Pardew, pressing, defending as a team, etc, but it doesn't detract from the fact that the primary reason the contest was over before it had eveb begun was individual mistakes by four of our back five. Which happen week in and week out... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 We can talk until the cows come home about organisation, Pardew, pressing, defending as a team, etc, but it doesn't detract from the fact that the primary reason the contest was over before it had eveb begun was individual mistakes by four of our back five. I don't disagree that our defence made mistakes, they clearly did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 We can talk until the cows come home about organisation, Pardew, pressing, defending as a team, etc, but it doesn't detract from the fact that the primary reason the contest was over before it had eveb begun was individual mistakes by four of our back five. Which happen week in and week out... No they don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 We can talk until the cows come home about organisation, Pardew, pressing, defending as a team, etc, but it doesn't detract from the fact that the primary reason the contest was over before it had eveb begun was individual mistakes by four of our back five. Which happen week in and week out... No they don't. a lot of the goals we concede appear to be down to this, How many times have people slagged off various players already? Debuchy, Santon, Colo and & Mbiwa last night. We must have some of the most error prone defenders in the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Something to this: We must have some of the most error prone defenders in the league. If players prior to their time joining us were committing LESS errors whether they played in league, European cups, international play...yet they come here and look like absolute messes... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 We can talk until the cows come home about organisation, Pardew, pressing, defending as a team, etc, but it doesn't detract from the fact that the primary reason the contest was over before it had eveb begun was individual mistakes by four of our back five. Which happen week in and week out... No they don't. a lot of the goals we concede appear to be down to this, How many times have people slagged off various players already? Debuchy, Santon, Colo and & Mbiwa last night. We must have some of the most error prone defenders in the league. most of the time its the full backs causing the problem since they seem only vaguely aware of the concept of defending (Debuchy is the most consistently guilty of this wandering way out of position and into central midfield at times). Colo and Mbwia aren't bad defenders individually but as a pairing last night we saw they just don't work it needs to be one or the other beside Taylor or Williamson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 a lot of the goals we concede appear to be down to this, How many times have people slagged off various players already? Debuchy, Santon, Colo and & Mbiwa last night. We must have some of the most error prone defenders in the league. It makes you wonder how those "error prone" defenders have all been capped at various levels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 We can talk until the cows come home about organisation, Pardew, pressing, defending as a team, etc, but it doesn't detract from the fact that the primary reason the contest was over before it had eveb begun was individual mistakes by four of our back five. Which happen week in and week out... No they don't. a lot of the goals we concede appear to be down to this, How many times have people slagged off various players already? Debuchy, Santon, Colo and & Mbiwa last night. We must have some of the most error prone defenders in the league. most of the time its the full backs causing the problem since they seem only vaguely aware of the concept of defending (Debuchy is the most consistently guilty of this wandering way out of position and into central midfield at times). Colo and Mbwia aren't bad defenders individually but as a pairing last night we saw they just don't work it needs to be one or the other beside Taylor or Williamson. Like it was against Liverpool? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 a lot of the goals we concede appear to be down to this, How many times have people slagged off various players already? Debuchy, Santon, Colo and & Mbiwa last night. We must have some of the most error prone defenders in the league. It makes you wonder how those "error prone" defenders have all been capped at various levels. Or won league titles, or played in the champions league, or world cup/euros Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Exactly, I'm sorry but when everyone in the side is making individual errors I think it's time to look at the bigger picture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 We can talk until the cows come home about organisation, Pardew, pressing, defending as a team, etc, but it doesn't detract from the fact that the primary reason the contest was over before it had eveb begun was individual mistakes by four of our back five. Which happen week in and week out... No they don't. a lot of the goals we concede appear to be down to this, How many times have people slagged off various players already? Debuchy, Santon, Colo and & Mbiwa last night. We must have some of the most error prone defenders in the league. Well, there wouldn't be many mistakes in football if players didn't make mistakes. Our players aren't perfect, they make mistakes, as does every other defender. When they do, they deserve criticism, and when it happens often, they need dropping or replacing. I'm not denying defensive organisation is part of the problem (our high number of goals conceeded since the start of last season), but there's more to it than that, such as seasoned professionals not even challenging for a bouncing goal kick.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 We can talk until the cows come home about organisation, Pardew, pressing, defending as a team, etc, but it doesn't detract from the fact that the primary reason the contest was over before it had eveb begun was individual mistakes by four of our back five. Which happen week in and week out... No they don't. a lot of the goals we concede appear to be down to this, How many times have people slagged off various players already? Debuchy, Santon, Colo and & Mbiwa last night. We must have some of the most error prone defenders in the league. Well, there wouldn't be many mistakes in football if players didn't make mistakes. Our players aren't perfect, they make mistakes, as does every other defender. When they do, they deserve criticism, and when it happens often, they need dropping or replacing. I'm not denying defensive organisation is part of the problem (our high number of goals conceeded since the start of last season), but there's more to it than that, such as seasoned professionals not even challenging for a bouncing goal kick.. It appears their is a lack of ownership being taken by everyone in the team. But Pardew is the one selecting the players, he's the one coaching them day in and day out. No one should have a clearer idea of who is good at what. Every single player we've bought has regressed under him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Another part of the problem is simply this: Carr and Pardew had identified and agreed on a target who would have been able to deal with your Benteke's or Lukaku's. Llambiass all but got the deal done, for nowt, until Kinnear came in and decided he knew better. He didn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 We can talk until the cows come home about organisation, Pardew, pressing, defending as a team, etc, but it doesn't detract from the fact that the primary reason the contest was over before it had eveb begun was individual mistakes by four of our back five. Which happen week in and week out... No they don't. a lot of the goals we concede appear to be down to this, How many times have people slagged off various players already? Debuchy, Santon, Colo and & Mbiwa last night. We must have some of the most error prone defenders in the league. Well, there wouldn't be many mistakes in football if players didn't make mistakes. Our players aren't perfect, they make mistakes, as does every other defender. When they do, they deserve criticism, and when it happens often, they need dropping or replacing. I'm not denying defensive organisation is part of the problem (our high number of goals conceeded since the start of last season), but there's more to it than that, such as seasoned professionals not even challenging for a bouncing goal kick.. It appears their is a lack of ownership being taken by everyone in the team. But Pardew is the one selecting the players, he's the one coaching them day in and day out. No one should have a clearer idea of who is good at what. Every single player we've bought has regressed under him. Pardew must go, I don't need convincing about that. It just bugs me people will blindly point at him and let Colo off the hook for schoolboy errors the latter (and others) made.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 We can talk until the cows come home about organisation, Pardew, pressing, defending as a team, etc, but it doesn't detract from the fact that the primary reason the contest was over before it had eveb begun was individual mistakes by four of our back five. Which happen week in and week out... No they don't. a lot of the goals we concede appear to be down to this, How many times have people slagged off various players already? Debuchy, Santon, Colo and & Mbiwa last night. We must have some of the most error prone defenders in the league. Well, there wouldn't be many mistakes in football if players didn't make mistakes. Our players aren't perfect, they make mistakes, as does every other defender. When they do, they deserve criticism, and when it happens often, they need dropping or replacing. I'm not denying defensive organisation is part of the problem (our high number of goals conceeded since the start of last season), but there's more to it than that, such as seasoned professionals not even challenging for a bouncing goal kick.. It appears their is a lack of ownership being taken by everyone in the team. But Pardew is the one selecting the players, he's the one coaching them day in and day out. No one should have a clearer idea of who is good at what. Every single player we've bought has regressed under him. Pardew must go, I don't need convincing about that. It just bugs me people will blindly point at him and let Colo off the hook for schoolboy errors the latter (and others) made.. I'm not letting anyone off personally. But I will reserve judgement on our entire squad until I see then play under a manager of some ability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 We can talk until the cows come home about organisation, Pardew, pressing, defending as a team, etc, but it doesn't detract from the fact that the primary reason the contest was over before it had eveb begun was individual mistakes by four of our back five. Which happen week in and week out... No they don't. a lot of the goals we concede appear to be down to this, How many times have people slagged off various players already? Debuchy, Santon, Colo and & Mbiwa last night. We must have some of the most error prone defenders in the league. Well, there wouldn't be many mistakes in football if players didn't make mistakes. Our players aren't perfect, they make mistakes, as does every other defender. When they do, they deserve criticism, and when it happens often, they need dropping or replacing. I'm not denying defensive organisation is part of the problem (our high number of goals conceeded since the start of last season), but there's more to it than that, such as seasoned professionals not even challenging for a bouncing goal kick.. It appears their is a lack of ownership being taken by everyone in the team. But Pardew is the one selecting the players, he's the one coaching them day in and day out. No one should have a clearer idea of who is good at what. Every single player we've bought has regressed under him. Pardew must go, I don't need convincing about that. It just bugs me people will blindly point at him and let Colo off the hook for schoolboy errors the latter (and others) made.. But there's no solution to that other than getting shot of the manager is there? Yes we can buy four centre halves in January, two new full backs, along with a new midfield and three new forward players (arf!) but is anyone convinced that would solve the problem? I'd put heavy wedge on the new players making exactly the same cock-ups a year down the line. Sick of reading the same constant cycle of criticism, which comes up with the valuable insight that all the players in the entire squad are shit (apart from the one who's only been here a month, funny that) and that what we really need in the team right now is the ones who've been out of the team for a while because I've forgotten how shit they are. I don't think it really needs pointing out that the players individually and as a team have been dreadful for over a year. Pointing out individual errors isn't going to solve the problem, and going off the evidence of last January, nor is replacing the players. So what's the solution? There's only one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Another part of the problem is simply this: Carr and Pardew had identified and agreed on a target who would have been able to deal with your Benteke's or Lukaku's. Llambiass all but got the deal done, for nowt, until Kinnear came in and decided he knew better. He didn't. Yanga-Mbiwa and Colo dealt with Benteke very well though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 We can talk until the cows come home about organisation, Pardew, pressing, defending as a team, etc, but it doesn't detract from the fact that the primary reason the contest was over before it had eveb begun was individual mistakes by four of our back five. Which happen week in and week out... No they don't. a lot of the goals we concede appear to be down to this, How many times have people slagged off various players already? Debuchy, Santon, Colo and & Mbiwa last night. We must have some of the most error prone defenders in the league. Well, there wouldn't be many mistakes in football if players didn't make mistakes. Our players aren't perfect, they make mistakes, as does every other defender. When they do, they deserve criticism, and when it happens often, they need dropping or replacing. I'm not denying defensive organisation is part of the problem (our high number of goals conceeded since the start of last season), but there's more to it than that, such as seasoned professionals not even challenging for a bouncing goal kick.. It appears their is a lack of ownership being taken by everyone in the team. But Pardew is the one selecting the players, he's the one coaching them day in and day out. No one should have a clearer idea of who is good at what. Every single player we've bought has regressed under him. Pardew must go, I don't need convincing about that. It just bugs me people will blindly point at him and let Colo off the hook for schoolboy errors the latter (and others) made.. But there's no solution to that other than getting shot of the manager is there? Yes we can buy four centre halves in January, two new full backs, along with a new midfield and three new forward players (arf!) but is anyone convinced that would solve the problem? I'd put heavy wedge on the new players making exactly the same cock-ups a year down the line. Sick of reading the same constant cycle of criticism, which comes up with the valuable insight that all the players in the entire squad are s*** (apart from the one who's only been here a month, funny that) and that what we really need in the team right now is the ones who've been out of the team for a while because I've forgotten how s*** they are. I don't think it really needs pointing out that the players individually and as a team have been dreadful for over a year. Pointing out individual errors isn't going to solve the problem, and going off the evidence of last January, nor is replacing the players. So what's the solution? There's only one. Rounds of applause. This is spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 our defenders could start by learning the basics of defending the kind of thing they should already know and not s*** their pants at the sight of Lukaku and it would have been a decent start. They know the basics. Do they? For each goal I wonder what MYM was thinking when a) doesn't go to close down b) loses the ball under no pressure c) runs away from danger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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