Alan Pardew

[Disco]

This is easily the worst this thread has ever been. And it was fucking downright minging patter to begin with.

 

These last few pages have put me off posting. It's that bad.

 

Every cloud.

 

Black kid.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Whose to say if they ignored him or not? Does it matter. If I can do my job well some of the time then im a bit of dick for not making sure I do it well all of the time.

 

We're looking into the reasons behind solid, controlled  performances in the first 45 minutes of a game versus backs to the wall out and out panic in the second 45.

 

As far as i can remember people suggested that Pardew changes his tactics at half time, irrespective of scoreline, asking the players to sit deeper so we can just try to soak up the pressure.

 

That argument doesn't hold any water with me, or we would take that approach from the first whistle.

 

Many people have stated that it is inability to change things (or respond to other teams changes) at half time that has hurt us. The argument that the players are tired and or panicking doesn't hold much water with me. Even if it is true who has overall responsibility for the players? Who has had a season to identify and rectify such problems? Etc.

 

A good contribution to this thread though HF

[ChezGiven]

My problem with using a shots statistic is not that poor shots can add to the shot count but the types of thing it misses out.

 

A player going one on one but being run out of play by the goalkeeper, a ball fizzed across the face just in front of a centre forward, a ball pulled back from the by line and cut out, an easy shooting chance where a player passes instead.

 

How often has it been said of Arsenal that they try and walk it in? Whereas some teams will try more speculative efforts as they know it's the only way of getting it near the opposition goal. It's simply not a measure of how many chances a team creates that stands up to even the most basic scrutiny.

So adjusting for that might change Arsenal's ranking. It might not and even if it did, with Arsenal above us it wouldn't change ours so whilst interesting its irrelevant. You'll have to do the playing style of all 20 teams and justify in principle why the relationship differs for each one before we'd want to test how much the ranking changes.

 

Which leaves us with a valid statistic until you do. As i said yesterday, us not creating chances isn't the issue for me and i think the stats posted very much support that. I also agree we look shit for long periods and Pardew has been v poor this season.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

I like to use league position as a stat for judging performance. Leftfield as f*** me. Wins, draws, losses, points. That kind of thing.

[ChezGiven]

So Pardew is a better manager than Jol and Pochettino then. Well done

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

I like to use league position as a stat for judging performance. Leftfield as f*** me. Wins, draws, losses, points. That kind of thing.

 

Look at me, look at me, I'm Edward Woodward. Pathetic.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I like to use league position as a stat for judging performance. Leftfield as f*** me. Wins, draws, losses, points. That kind of thing.

 

Well we already know all of that though, just looking into the reasons behind it.

[Lotus]

I like to use league position as a stat for judging performance. Leftfield as f*** me. Wins, draws, losses, points. That kind of thing.

 

Well we already know all of that though, just looking into the reasons behind it.

 

Well, tbf, stats won't tell you the reasons behind it, just how often a particular event happened.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

So Pardew is a better manager than Jol and Pochettino then. Well done

 

Pochettino's been in a job for 4 months, man.

[loki679]

When I see us passing and keeping posession and probing like in the first half [vs. West Brom] I think that's what Pardew has spent the week drilling them with.  When I see us twating the ball out of defense I think that's the players getting tired and desparate and ignoring what they've been told.  When I see shola coming on I think Pardew is trying to get those balls to stick and stop it being wave after wave of attack.

 

Daily reminder.

 

You keep quoting it.  What was wrong about it?

 

From the West Brom thread on here....

 

THAT'LLDEE LIKE

 

Overall, very good.

 

I think we've looked decent.

 

Funny how much better we play when Cabaye is pushed 10 yards further forward 

 

Should be at least 2-0 up.

 

So everyone agrees we were good in the first half.  So Pardew can get the team to play well.  Following the instructions they've been given all wwek in the build up.

 

Or do you think they ignored him in the first half?

 

If you're going to quote me, please quote the whole post:

 

I think we've looked decent.  Hope we dont try and sit on it.

 

What happened again?

[Happy Face]

1) "Passing and keeping possession and probing". Misleading PR bullshit (where did you learn that from?), especially the probing part, there was none or very little "probing". We are incapable of it. We had decent possession (mainly at the back) because West Brom were on holiday and put us under literally no pressure unless we approached their half/goal. Even the inept commentators mentioned this non stop. When they received the predictable bollocking at half time they spent the first ten minutes of the second half camped in our half and dominated the rest of the match.

 

You seem to be agreeing with me here.  It wasn't Pardews half time talk that had a negative effect for us, it was  Steve Clarke's.  We had 8 shots on goal in the first 37 minutes of that game.  None of them taken from our own half. 

 

We only had another 2 shots in the remaining hour of the game.

 

The part in bold is utter bullshit. It had been noted several times in the press, by word of mouth of our own coaching staff that Pardew spends 4 days working on shape, preparation and defending and 1 on attacking. So that's just a straight up lie.

 

It's not a lie, it's an opinion.  I didn't say he spends the week on attack in training.  I said the approach we take to a game from the get go is in all liklihood the approach that we worked on throughout the week.  In terms of shape, attack, defence, the whole caboodle.

 

So what is it, massive coincidence or do our players have the worst concentration, discipline and fitness levels in the league?

 

Obviously Pardew is not averse to a long ball.  But it's exacerbated by the quality of our rearguard.

 

The current average is 69 long balls a game.  Back in January following our really bad run of 13 games it was in the 70s.  On occassion we've hit 80+.

 

We're hitting less long balls now, which can be seen in our lowering average, that's due to our improved squad.

 

Against West Brom we hit 67 long balls, another below average total.  Though it was still comparitively high. 

 

Against QPR it was only 55.  Which is less than the average of ALL teams, bar Arsenal and Man City.

 

Pardew puts on Shola because our bold and silly players wont stop kicking it long. 

 

Not as if he's known to like a target man throughout his career or anything 

 

It's not his preference though.  Clearly.  He starts the game with the team he prefers.  Shola only comes on ahead of our only other reserve striker...an 18 year old hobbit that's played 4 minutes of Premier League Football.

[Happy Face]

What happened again?

 

We weren't as good in the second half.  Spudil never denied that though, so I never thought it was relevant.

[loki679]

When I see shola coming on I think Pardew is trying to get those balls to stick and stop it being wave after wave of attack.

 

Pardew puts on Shola because our bold and silly players wont stop kicking it long. 

 

Not as if he's known to like a target man throughout his career or anything 

 

 

 

Even if it's true then he wants shot with shit for not fixing it after the first, oh, 10 times say.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

You're playing a blinder here Happy Face, carry on.

[loki679]

What happened again?

 

We weren't as good in the second half.  Spudil never denied that though, so I never thought it was relevant.

 

We 'weren't as good' because our opponents had a manager who could read a game and change things while we went into turtle mode to try and defend our lead again.  Read the rest of that thread you quoted and you'll see why the 2nd part of my post was relevant because it's exactly what happened.

 

Our manager that day was too tactically limited and lacking in belief so we dropped two points.  Dress it up with stats about shots or quotes taken in isolation all you want.  That's what happened.

[Wullie]

Fail to see how he's "playing a blinder" like. It's impossible to argue with someone whose point of view is so silly, that much is true.

 

It's no different to me claiming that Tony Pulls actually instructs and coaches his team to play like Barcelona but they've just ignored him consistently every week for eight years. I can argue it and claim I'm playing a blinder but people who actually watch the games can clearly see it is not the case.

 

"Arsene Wenger coaches a long ball game cos I say so" is what it boils down to. Doesn't really get us anywhere. Even if his argument were valid, he's arguing that the players becoming tired and losing concentration on a very regular basis from the beginning of Pardew's tenure, across completely different XI's, home and away,  is a positive aspect of his management.

[Unbelievable]

Never thought I'd change anyone's mind.

 

Surprises me how anti-Pardew this board is though.  Seems 95% are militantly opposed to the bloke managing another game, it suggests a view that ANY other manager could turn Mike Williamson into a solid, classy CB that can pass the ball out of defence with aplomb rather than hoofing the f***er . 

 

Anywhere else it seems to be 50-50, largely people can see Pardew's clear flaws, but also the limitations he (and any other manager that replaced him) face.  There'll be extremists who are stupidly supportive and just say "5th! 5th! 5th!"...and at the other end who say everything is an excuse. But most people see both sides.  Here though, more than anywhere else it tends to be the latter "no excuses" sort.  To the extent that protests are being planned.  Are any other sites doing that?

 

Just wanted to temper some of that extremism if I could.

 

Happy Face, tbh it's you who is in the wrong here man. You're trying to see things through both sides and points of views but for me it's clear you don't know football. Most on here are very informed and knowledgeable from watching football from leagues all over the world who have seen other teams play 100 times and therefore have built there opinion on other than Newcastle. I've in my lifetime very rarely seen football played in such a cowardly manner as under Pardew. I have a family who we all grew up with football, I don't know how many times I have had to sit through Newcastle games even last season with criticism for Pardew. It was obvious last season and it's even more obvious this season. He can't adapt, he can't change and he can't manage a football club at the highest level. I'll be happy to be proved wrong, but that is dependant on him learning from mistakes which from his interviews is clear he doesn't see them as that. I think most on here have come to realize this and it's not weird we want the best for the club.

 

To say we have been massively unlucky this season is also proof of being excessively lucky last season. This season we have had a fair few lucky moments in our favour too, Figueroa being harshly sent off, Evertons goal not counting while we've also had some unlucky and terrible refereeing calls. In the end we have a team good enough not to depend on decisions and something Pardew has not done. No one expects someone new to come in and make Mike Williamson play like a classy CB, but you look around the league and world and you have a lot of managers adapting players to their tactics and helping them improve while we have a manager who has stagnated players at our disposal.

 

Last week* I had this discussion with Inochi and he refused to see it the same way as me and I respect that, but before Ben Arfa came into the side last season we won very few points, had we not had a great start to the season or had Benny come into the team to save us we'd probably have finished around the same. Credit where it's due though Pardew did get the team to play efficiently and that's why I've many times compared him to someone like Sven Göran Eriksson. Both have this inability to makes changes for the good, to see their blatant mistakes and try to correct them. If Sven managed us I'd see the exact same problem. It's a conservative style of football with no back up plan if it fails. Luckily for Sven his style worked for him many times, but it was very obvious it didn't always work. I'll never forget the 2002 world cup quarterfinal and I'll be forever thankful for England having Sven as a manager. Brazil up 2-1 with a man less with 20-25 minutes to go absolutely dominated the ball, England had no idea what to do when they were in advantage player wise. Instead of looking for a win they were left confused when a player like Roberto Carlos stole the ball, ran the length of the pitch, stopped, looked back and passed it back around to the defenders in a way not to lose the ball. I saw the same with him against other teams at World Cups. Pardew falls into the same category for me but obviously at a lesser level.

 

With that said many managers can play defensively and still be good managers, look at Ancelotti, Capello, Tite etc. More boring styles of play are hard to find but they have a system in place and believe in their philosophy. You also have to Loco ones like Tele Santana, Bielsa etc.

 

Drawing a conclusion from this, it's beyond me how anyone can be surprised that 95% (w/e that number came from) are completely against the bloke, but I can promise you HF that we will all be hoping he changes over the summer if his still here.

 

tl;dr...

 

Wat?

[Hanshithispantz]

We've started about half a dozen games well this season and looked a fairly decent side capable of creating a few chances, big fucking whoop. You could probably say the same about QPR, Reading & Wigan or the rest of the dross in this league, even Stoke and West Ham with their Wenger-lites in charge. It's the absolute minimum you expect of a manager for fuck's sake

 

Honestly, look at what you're doing, you're isolating individual games, actually isolating small segments of individual games, in an effort to prove a point that can be completely rubbished when you look at the season as a whole. Maybe the players did tire once or twice in the 2nd half of a match, maybe the opposition were just too good, maybe we were just unlucky etc etc, but this has happened far too often and it's not as though we start every game looking to take the game to opposition either, as you're ironically proving by focusing on a select group of individual games.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

http://www.idioms4you.com/img/angif-hit-the-nail-on-the-head.gif

[Spudil]

 

You seem to be agreeing with me here.  It wasn't Pardews half time talk that had a negative effect for us, it was  Steve Clarke's.  We had 8 shots on goal in the first 37 minutes of that game.  None of them taken from our own half. 

 

We only had another 2 shots in the remaining hour of the game.

 

None of this is relevant. I never said Pardew sets us up really well and then changes it at half time. I'm saying he sets us up s*** all the time.

 

It's not a lie, it's an opinion.  I didn't say he spends the week on attack in training.  I said the approach we take to a game from the get go is in all liklihood the approach that we worked on throughout the week.  In terms of shape, attack, defence, the whole caboodle.

 

It is a lie, it contradicts the fact of what our coaching staff have told us.

 

Bold: No you did not. Here is what you said:

When I see us passing and keeping posession and probing like in the first half [vs. West Brom] I think that's what Pardew has spent the week drilling them with.

 

Not the same at all.

 

/snip we played a bit less long ball

 

So?

 

It's not his preference though.  Clearly.  He starts the game with the team he prefers.  Shola only comes on ahead of our only other reserve striker...an 18 year old hobbit that's played 4 minutes of Premier League Football.

 

Ameobi has got to be one of the most used subs in the league. Most of the time Cisse stays on when Shola is subbed on so your point about Campell is null. He doesn't start because he's not a very good target man. If Pardew had a target man of slightly better quality he would start and he will push for one all summer.

[Benwell Lad]

Never thought I'd change anyone's mind.

 

Surprises me how anti-Pardew this board is though.  Seems 95% are militantly opposed to the bloke managing another game, it suggests a view that ANY other manager could turn Mike Williamson into a solid, classy CB that can pass the ball out of defence with aplomb rather than hoofing the f***er . 

 

Anywhere else it seems to be 50-50, largely people can see Pardew's clear flaws, but also the limitations he (and any other manager that replaced him) face.  There'll be extremists who are stupidly supportive and just say "5th! 5th! 5th!"...and at the other end who say everything is an excuse. But most people see both sides.  Here though, more than anywhere else it tends to be the latter "no excuses" sort.  To the extent that protests are being planned.  Are any other sites doing that?

 

Just wanted to temper some of that extremism if I could.

 

Happy Face, tbh it's you who is in the wrong here man. You're trying to see things through both sides and points of views but for me it's clear you don't know football. Most on here are very informed and knowledgeable from watching football from leagues all over the world who have seen other teams play 100 times and therefore have built there opinion on other than Newcastle. I've in my lifetime very rarely seen football played in such a cowardly manner as under Pardew. I have a family who we all grew up with football, I don't know how many times I have had to sit through Newcastle games even last season with criticism for Pardew. It was obvious last season and it's even more obvious this season. He can't adapt, he can't change and he can't manage a football club at the highest level. I'll be happy to be proved wrong, but that is dependant on him learning from mistakes which from his interviews is clear he doesn't see them as that. I think most on here have come to realize this and it's not weird we want the best for the club.

 

To say we have been massively unlucky this season is also proof of being excessively lucky last season. This season we have had a fair few lucky moments in our favour too, Figueroa being harshly sent off, Evertons goal not counting while we've also had some unlucky and terrible refereeing calls. In the end we have a team good enough not to depend on decisions and something Pardew has not done. No one expects someone new to come in and make Mike Williamson play like a classy CB, but you look around the league and world and you have a lot of managers adapting players to their tactics and helping them improve while we have a manager who has stagnated players at our disposal.

 

Last week* I had this discussion with Inochi and he refused to see it the same way as me and I respect that, but before Ben Arfa came into the side last season we won very few points, had we not had a great start to the season or had Benny come into the team to save us we'd probably have finished around the same. Credit where it's due though Pardew did get the team to play efficiently and that's why I've many times compared him to someone like Sven Göran Eriksson. Both have this inability to makes changes for the good, to see their blatant mistakes and try to correct them. If Sven managed us I'd see the exact same problem. It's a conservative style of football with no back up plan if it fails. Luckily for Sven his style worked for him many times, but it was very obvious it didn't always work. I'll never forget the 2002 world cup quarterfinal and I'll be forever thankful for England having Sven as a manager. Brazil up 2-1 with a man less with 20-25 minutes to go absolutely dominated the ball, England had no idea what to do when they were in advantage player wise. Instead of looking for a win they were left confused when a player like Roberto Carlos stole the ball, ran the length of the pitch, stopped, looked back and passed it back around to the defenders in a way not to lose the ball. I saw the same with him against other teams at World Cups. Pardew falls into the same category for me but obviously at a lesser level.

 

With that said many managers can play defensively and still be good managers, look at Ancelotti, Capello, Tite etc. More boring styles of play are hard to find but they have a system in place and believe in their philosophy. You also have to Loco ones like Tele Santana, Bielsa etc.

 

Drawing a conclusion from this, it's beyond me how anyone can be surprised that 95% (w/e that number came from) are completely against the bloke, but I can promise you HF that we will all be hoping he changes over the summer if his still here.

 

tl;dr...

 

Wat?

 

It's the internet man you can say what you want.  Especially if it's on N-O and relates to Alan Pardew,

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Fuck the stats!

 

We are poor in every single department under Pardew and as a side we are easily one of the worst in the division because of this. If no-one can see that then they are clearly stupid and not worthy of debating with sorry! Using stats to somehow make us look less shit than we actually are is as fucked up as wanting to keep the fraudster in the dugout for the sake of fucking stability.

 

For the money Ashley has spent (certainly in January), the expectations of this club and the players we can call upon, this is simply not good enough. The man has to go if we are to improve and get back into the top 6 which is somewhere I personally believe we can realistically aim for not just in a once in a blue moon fashion but every single season. Or rather a place we should be aiming for. Otherwise what's the fucking point?!

 

We are poor at defending. We do not defend as a team. We rely on individual heroics or good fortune. Likewise the same can be said in attack. We do not dominate the opposition in any area of the pitch and even when we do, it isn't for long enough spells to make much difference.

 

Tactically we are a mess. There is no real game plan other than to work hard, keep going, keep it tight and to hit it long early. Those aren't even tactics but fucking mantra you would be embarrassed to hear in a sunday league game.

 

I can well imagine our more technical and better educated players like Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Sisoko and Colo for example fucking cringing inside at this 'mantra' from the manager.

 

And speaking of our better players. None of them play with any degree of freedom or confidence. They all look like they don't really quite know what to do or how to go about it. That's the sign of poor coaching, preperation and a lack of trust and confidence in themselves and their team-mates, much less the manager's tactics or rather mantra.

 

And don't even get me started on our set-pieces. He should be sacked for those alone.

 

And then to the bull shit the man spouts.... he hopes we come in fancy dress, eh?!

 

I would make him dress up as a clown on Sunday and send him out. Then the 53,000 in attendance will finally see the real Pardew. The clown that he is.

 

Getting back to the stats. I couldn't give a fuck whether we have more shots outside of the box than 7 or so other teams. I couldn't give two shits about the opposition. All I care about is my own team and my god we are fucking shit under this prick. Turbo shit.

[Wilson]

Never thought I'd enjoy an HTT essay so much

 

[arnonel]

f*** the stats!

 

We are poor in every single department under Pardew and as a side we are easily one of the worst in the division because of this. If no-one can see that then they are clearly stupid and not worthy of debating with sorry! Using stats to somehow make us look less s*** than we actually are is as f***ed up as wanting to keep the fraudster in the dugout for the sake of f***ing stability.

 

For the money Ashley has spent (certainly in January), the expectations of this club and the players we can call upon, this is simply not good enough. The man has to go if we are to improve and get back into the top 6 which is somewhere I personally believe we can realistically aim for not just in a once in a blue moon fashion but every single season. Or rather a place we should be aiming for. Otherwise what's the f***ing point?!

 

We are poor at defending. We do not defend as a team. We rely on individual heroics or good fortune. Likewise the same can be said in attack. We do not dominate the opposition in any area of the pitch and even when we do, it isn't for long enough spells to make much difference.

 

Tactically we are a mess. There is no real game plan other than to work hard, keep going, keep it tight and to hit it long early. Those aren't even tactics but f***ing mantra you would be embarrassed to hear in a sunday league game.

 

I can well imagine our more technical and better educated players like Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Sisoko and Colo for example f***ing cringing inside at this 'mantra' from the manager.

 

And speaking of our better players. None of them play with any degree of freedom or confidence. They all look like they don't really quite know what to do or how to go about it. That's the sign of poor coaching, preperation and a lack of trust and confidence in themselves and their team-mates, much less the manager's tactics or rather mantra.

 

And don't even get me started on our set-pieces. He should be sacked for those alone.

 

And then to the bull s*** the man spouts.... he hopes we come in fancy dress, eh?!

 

I would make him dress up as a clown on Sunday and send him out. Then the 53,000 in attendance will finally see the real Pardew. The clown that he is.

 

Getting back to the stats. I couldn't give a f*** whether we have more shots outside of the box than 7 or so other teams. I couldn't give two s***s about the opposition. All I care about is my own team and my god we are f***ing s*** under this prick. Turbo s***.

 

http://phone.widgetsradar.com/uploadfiles/phonewidgetsradarcom-1348082966/calmdown-for-mac-encourages-you-to-relax-step-away-from-the-keyboard_1.jpg

[Unbelievable]

f*** the stats!

 

We are poor in every single department under Pardew and as a side we are easily one of the worst in the division because of this. If no-one can see that then they are clearly stupid and not worthy of debating with sorry! Using stats to somehow make us look less s*** than we actually are is as f***ed up as wanting to keep the fraudster in the dugout for the sake of f***ing stability.

 

For the money Ashley has spent (certainly in January), the expectations of this club and the players we can call upon, this is simply not good enough. The man has to go if we are to improve and get back into the top 6 which is somewhere I personally believe we can realistically aim for not just in a once in a blue moon fashion but every single season. Or rather a place we should be aiming for. Otherwise what's the f***ing point?!

 

We are poor at defending. We do not defend as a team. We rely on individual heroics or good fortune. Likewise the same can be said in attack. We do not dominate the opposition in any area of the pitch and even when we do, it isn't for long enough spells to make much difference.

 

Tactically we are a mess. There is no real game plan other than to work hard, keep going, keep it tight and to hit it long early. Those aren't even tactics but f***ing mantra you would be embarrassed to hear in a sunday league game.

 

I can well imagine our more technical and better educated players like Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Sisoko and Colo for example f***ing cringing inside at this 'mantra' from the manager.

 

And speaking of our better players. None of them play with any degree of freedom or confidence. They all look like they don't really quite know what to do or how to go about it. That's the sign of poor coaching, preperation and a lack of trust and confidence in themselves and their team-mates, much less the manager's tactics or rather mantra.

 

And don't even get me started on our set-pieces. He should be sacked for those alone.

 

And then to the bull s*** the man spouts.... he hopes we come in fancy dress, eh?!

 

I would make him dress up as a clown on Sunday and send him out. Then the 53,000 in attendance will finally see the real Pardew. The clown that he is.

 

Getting back to the stats. I couldn't give a f*** whether we have more shots outside of the box than 7 or so other teams. I couldn't give two s***s about the opposition. All I care about is my own team and my god we are f***ing s*** under this prick. Turbo s***.

 

http://phone.widgetsradar.com/uploadfiles/phonewidgetsradarcom-1348082966/calmdown-for-mac-encourages-you-to-relax-step-away-from-the-keyboard_1.jpg

 

Perfect