SEMTEX Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 It's a fact. We've relied less on long balls as the season has gone on. Whether Pardew has the ability to have his team pass it and move around our opponents effectively is another matter. But those that don't like hoofball should give credit the change in approach, rather than blindly repeat that we're still as bad as we were in September for it. There hasn't been a huge shift in approach and if anything we actually played less long ball football leading up to January than we did after January. Against Man Utd and Arsenal for example, for long spells our football was good, very good. That short shift in approach mainly coincided with the Jan arrivals anyway, but once the dust had settled so to speak, the long ball soon reappeared to the point where we used it a lot, even in Europe. Our football hasn't really improved at all, if anything its worse given the higher calibre of players/more options. http://i41.tinypic.com/2z8c09f.jpg Stop posting facts man, they get well in the way of popular opinion. There's a good boy. Facts. Graphs with no axis labels nor accompanying explanations are now facts!? It's fucking nonsense man you daft shite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I also watch the matches with my own eyes, albeit mostly on the telly, and there is a lot not to like about our style of play, but a hoofball team we are not imho. We do play long balls of course, but so does almost every other team in the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 The day the graphs landed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 It's a fact. We've relied less on long balls as the season has gone on. Whether Pardew has the ability to have his team pass it and move around our opponents effectively is another matter. But those that don't like hoofball should give credit the change in approach, rather than blindly repeat that we're still as bad as we were in September for it. There hasn't been a huge shift in approach and if anything we actually played less long ball football leading up to January than we did after January. Against Man Utd and Arsenal for example, for long spells our football was good, very good. That short shift in approach mainly coincided with the Jan arrivals anyway, but once the dust had settled so to speak, the long ball soon reappeared to the point where we used it a lot, even in Europe. Our football hasn't really improved at all, if anything its worse given the higher calibre of players/more options. http://i41.tinypic.com/2z8c09f.jpg Stop posting facts man, they get well in the way of popular opinion. There's a good boy. Facts. Graphs with no axis labels nor accompanying explanations are now facts!? It's f***ing nonsense man you daft s****. Are you telling me you don't understand the axis values..? A wild stab in the dark here: X for fixtures, Y for number of long balls (in that particular fixture).. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Well I thought this thread couldn't get more depressing and then a wild facetious statto appears! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Jesus Wept. Aye, they're Pardew lovers there. You're nuts if read everything as fact. Spot the difference. http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/615283/MatchReport http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/match/2013/apr/27/newcastleunited-v-liverpool Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I'm still baffled by that comment from Pardew about getting Tiote OUT of the habit of just winning it and giving it. He seems to have been worse and worse since then. It's all he should be doing as far as I'm concerned. I get the point, but he's getting flak for playing crap football, and criticised for seemingly trying to get one of his cloggers to improve his game. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Oh a stats based Pardew defence. Makes me glad to be miles from civilization. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I love the fact that someone who has watched every minute of every game, their judgement is now question by Stats that show no reflection in the state of a game at any one time. Stats don't show whether you were on the back foot, front foot, time wasting, particular incidents in games etc. It's utter flangewipe, our eyes and years of watching football are a better judge than a bunch of numbers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I love the fact that someone who has watched every minute of every game, their judgement is now question by Stats that show no reflection in the state of a game at any one time. Starts don't show whether you were on the back foot, front foot, time wasting, particular incidents in games etc. It's utter flangewipe, our eyes and years of watching football are a better judge than a bunch of numbers. And here's the rub...Pards loves his stats and averages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 http://www.nufcblog.org/2013/04/newcastle-united-are-still-the-biggest-long-ball-side-in-the-premiership/#.UZPKT5VnL18 As of 7th April. Cheers Those OPTA numbers in their report confirm the exact same trend. Over the season we have averaged most, but our trend is towards getting better, to a massive extent... http://i41.tinypic.com/ru1vs9.jpg Most recent fixture first the way they've ordered it though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 The stats can be used to argue either side of the argument. I don't doubt their importance in modern-day football (probably too important tbh) but I prefer to trust my own eyes and the league table. This season we've generally been rubbish, and unlike last season the results have followed suit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I love the fact that someone who has watched every minute of every game, their judgement is now question by Stats that show no reflection in the state of a game at any one time. Starts don't show whether you were on the back foot, front foot, time wasting, particular incidents in games etc. It's utter flangewipe, our eyes and years of watching football are a better judge than a bunch of numbers. And here's the rub...Pards loves his stats and averages. Aye, one of his ways to bullshit. Stewart Robson had it right on the money. So exact it's rather uncanny. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fraser Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 My problem with Pardew is not long-ball, hoof-ball, intricate midfield passing-ball or athletic overlapping full-back-ball, it's ineptitude-ball. Whatever the team did, by and large, they did it less well that most other teams they played, in many cases with demonstrably better players in our team. We've managed to scrape over the line having endured a season (leaving aside the trips to Europe, which were fun) ranging from the mildly pleasing on very few occasions to the generally appalling; in some cases embarrassing. There is nothing that I saw last season (when Lady Luck was with us on many occasions) or this (when she deserted us) to suggest anything to contradict the mediocrity of his CV. He is 51 and has managed several clubs of a decent size; if he were good enough we would already know by now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Again open to vast interpretation. A pin point 40 yard diagonal is by definition a "long ball". In the same way a long hopeful punt up to Cisse is a "long ball". This reliance on stats is ludicrous, people have watched it with their own eyes. Also "improvements" :lol: so we cut it back a bit. I should think so considering we threw five players in the mix. You've basically posted what I mockingly said the response would be. Not sure if it's serious. If we've averaged less than 55 long balls per game for the last 3 months, that is one of the lowest in the league man, irrespective of whether they're pinpoint or wild hoofs. Why is it irrespective? its completely relevant. You can use stats to prove a numeric value, but the interpretation is always key. There is obviously a massive difference. I'm staggered you think its the same thing. The condescension is great considering your point is invalid Its the same with any stat. A player could have 100% passing success. Each pass being 2 yards square. See the post from Chez to Wullie about shots on goal. He explained it far better than I could. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 My problem with Pardew is not long-ball, hoof-ball, intricate midfield passing-ball or athletic overlapping full-back-ball, it's ineptitude-ball. Whatever the team did, by and large, they did it less well that most other teams they played, in many cases with demonstrably better players in our team. We've managed to scrape over the line having endured a season (leaving aside the trips to Europe, which were fun) ranging from the mildly pleasing on very few occasions to the generally appalling; in some cases embarrassing. There is nothing that I saw last season (when Lady Luck was with us on many occasions) or this (when she deserted us) to suggest anything to contradict the mediocrity of his CV. He is 51 and has managed several clubs of a decent size; if he were good enough we would already know by now. Spot on sir Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 http://www.nufcblog.org/2013/04/newcastle-united-are-still-the-biggest-long-ball-side-in-the-premiership/#.UZPKT5VnL18 As of 7th April. Cheers Those OPTA numbers in their report confirm the exact same trend. Over the season we have averaged most, but our trend is towards getting better, to a massive extent... http://i41.tinypic.com/ru1vs9.jpg Most recent fixture first the way they've ordered it though. Whoever allowed you to get a copy of excel should be done for crimes against humanity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I'm not buying your bullshit Pythagoras Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Oh a stats based Pardew defence. Makes me glad to be miles from civilization. It's not a stats based argument. I never brought a stat into it. I said 3 times that Pardew is relying less on long balls...you can see that if you watch our games and have watched them all season. But saying this obviously means nothing to people with preconceived notions and I was told he is as bad as ever. So I had to go to defcon 3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 what defines along ball; a ball in the air? how high? from the keeper? it's going to differ from statistician to statistician. You can only go on whole game summaries to get an idea of real cohesion. Confidence, flair, creativity, tenacity, understanding; all things that can't be measured by stats. I can remember very few occasions where those qualitative terms apply. They are just as relevant as any quantitative information and imo more indicative of how good we are as a side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 A long pass is very different to long ball. A long pass is accurate and to a player he will normally collect, a long ball is something a player will compete for and only win 50/50. Yet both are in the same stat and the same thing. Stats are bollocks where football is concerned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 It's also pretty ironic that a lack of confidence has been extensively blamed for the players' poor performance this season, considering it is a completely subjective attribute that cannot possibly be measured in any statistical manner. Similarly any perceived lack of quality, unless you go solely off their pricetags which the club's scouting system has shown in recent years can easily be completely irrelevant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Tbh, I agree that we've played less long balls as the season has gone on. Its just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the problems with the side under Pardew. Alas, without keyboard I will refrain from this debate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I don't get this counter argument that some long balls are passes and others aren't. What does it matter? How does that counter the fact that on average, we've hit 20 less long balls per game in the last 3 months than in the first 3 months. An improvement, for those that don't like long balls/passes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 It's also pretty ironic that a lack of confidence has been extensively blamed for the players' poor performance this season, considering it is a completely subjective attribute that cannot possibly be measured in any statistical manner. Similarly any perceived lack of quality, unless you go solely off their pricetags which the club's scouting system has shown in recent years can easily be completely irrelevant. I think it's pretty much down to quality. Simpson, Williamson, Taylor and Perch are much more likely to go long than Debuchy, Mbiwa, Haidara or Sissoko. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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