Happy Face Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 http://www.nufcblog.org/2013/04/newcastle-united-are-still-the-biggest-long-ball-side-in-the-premiership/#.UZPKT5VnL18 As of 7th April. Cheers Those OPTA numbers in their report confirm the exact same trend. Over the season we have averaged most, but our trend is towards getting better, to a massive extent... http://i41.tinypic.com/ru1vs9.jpg Most recent fixture first the way they've ordered it though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 The stats can be used to argue either side of the argument. I don't doubt their importance in modern-day football (probably too important tbh) but I prefer to trust my own eyes and the league table. This season we've generally been rubbish, and unlike last season the results have followed suit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I love the fact that someone who has watched every minute of every game, their judgement is now question by Stats that show no reflection in the state of a game at any one time. Starts don't show whether you were on the back foot, front foot, time wasting, particular incidents in games etc. It's utter flangewipe, our eyes and years of watching football are a better judge than a bunch of numbers. And here's the rub...Pards loves his stats and averages. Aye, one of his ways to bullshit. Stewart Robson had it right on the money. So exact it's rather uncanny. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fraser Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 My problem with Pardew is not long-ball, hoof-ball, intricate midfield passing-ball or athletic overlapping full-back-ball, it's ineptitude-ball. Whatever the team did, by and large, they did it less well that most other teams they played, in many cases with demonstrably better players in our team. We've managed to scrape over the line having endured a season (leaving aside the trips to Europe, which were fun) ranging from the mildly pleasing on very few occasions to the generally appalling; in some cases embarrassing. There is nothing that I saw last season (when Lady Luck was with us on many occasions) or this (when she deserted us) to suggest anything to contradict the mediocrity of his CV. He is 51 and has managed several clubs of a decent size; if he were good enough we would already know by now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Again open to vast interpretation. A pin point 40 yard diagonal is by definition a "long ball". In the same way a long hopeful punt up to Cisse is a "long ball". This reliance on stats is ludicrous, people have watched it with their own eyes. Also "improvements" :lol: so we cut it back a bit. I should think so considering we threw five players in the mix. You've basically posted what I mockingly said the response would be. Not sure if it's serious. If we've averaged less than 55 long balls per game for the last 3 months, that is one of the lowest in the league man, irrespective of whether they're pinpoint or wild hoofs. Why is it irrespective? its completely relevant. You can use stats to prove a numeric value, but the interpretation is always key. There is obviously a massive difference. I'm staggered you think its the same thing. The condescension is great considering your point is invalid Its the same with any stat. A player could have 100% passing success. Each pass being 2 yards square. See the post from Chez to Wullie about shots on goal. He explained it far better than I could. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 My problem with Pardew is not long-ball, hoof-ball, intricate midfield passing-ball or athletic overlapping full-back-ball, it's ineptitude-ball. Whatever the team did, by and large, they did it less well that most other teams they played, in many cases with demonstrably better players in our team. We've managed to scrape over the line having endured a season (leaving aside the trips to Europe, which were fun) ranging from the mildly pleasing on very few occasions to the generally appalling; in some cases embarrassing. There is nothing that I saw last season (when Lady Luck was with us on many occasions) or this (when she deserted us) to suggest anything to contradict the mediocrity of his CV. He is 51 and has managed several clubs of a decent size; if he were good enough we would already know by now. Spot on sir Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 http://www.nufcblog.org/2013/04/newcastle-united-are-still-the-biggest-long-ball-side-in-the-premiership/#.UZPKT5VnL18 As of 7th April. Cheers Those OPTA numbers in their report confirm the exact same trend. Over the season we have averaged most, but our trend is towards getting better, to a massive extent... http://i41.tinypic.com/ru1vs9.jpg Most recent fixture first the way they've ordered it though. Whoever allowed you to get a copy of excel should be done for crimes against humanity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I'm not buying your bullshit Pythagoras Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Oh a stats based Pardew defence. Makes me glad to be miles from civilization. It's not a stats based argument. I never brought a stat into it. I said 3 times that Pardew is relying less on long balls...you can see that if you watch our games and have watched them all season. But saying this obviously means nothing to people with preconceived notions and I was told he is as bad as ever. So I had to go to defcon 3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 what defines along ball; a ball in the air? how high? from the keeper? it's going to differ from statistician to statistician. You can only go on whole game summaries to get an idea of real cohesion. Confidence, flair, creativity, tenacity, understanding; all things that can't be measured by stats. I can remember very few occasions where those qualitative terms apply. They are just as relevant as any quantitative information and imo more indicative of how good we are as a side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 A long pass is very different to long ball. A long pass is accurate and to a player he will normally collect, a long ball is something a player will compete for and only win 50/50. Yet both are in the same stat and the same thing. Stats are bollocks where football is concerned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 It's also pretty ironic that a lack of confidence has been extensively blamed for the players' poor performance this season, considering it is a completely subjective attribute that cannot possibly be measured in any statistical manner. Similarly any perceived lack of quality, unless you go solely off their pricetags which the club's scouting system has shown in recent years can easily be completely irrelevant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Tbh, I agree that we've played less long balls as the season has gone on. Its just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the problems with the side under Pardew. Alas, without keyboard I will refrain from this debate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I don't get this counter argument that some long balls are passes and others aren't. What does it matter? How does that counter the fact that on average, we've hit 20 less long balls per game in the last 3 months than in the first 3 months. An improvement, for those that don't like long balls/passes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 It's also pretty ironic that a lack of confidence has been extensively blamed for the players' poor performance this season, considering it is a completely subjective attribute that cannot possibly be measured in any statistical manner. Similarly any perceived lack of quality, unless you go solely off their pricetags which the club's scouting system has shown in recent years can easily be completely irrelevant. I think it's pretty much down to quality. Simpson, Williamson, Taylor and Perch are much more likely to go long than Debuchy, Mbiwa, Haidara or Sissoko. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I don't get this counter argument that some long balls are passes and others aren't. What does it matter? How does that counter the fact that on average, we've hit 20 less long balls per game in the last 3 months than in the first 3 months. An improvement, for those that don't like long balls/passes. That's obvious isn't it ?. One is accurate and the other is hopeful and at times aimless. See if you think that's irrelevent, why. It's extremely relevent when you factor in keeping possession, and building up play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 286 pages now of the majority saying Pardew isn't good enough, a few acknowledging that he isn't good enough and wont be sacked, and a couple of older posters acknowledging he isn't good enough but maybe needs to be cut some slack and given the benefit of the doubt. Now splitting hairs about longs balls etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 286 pages now of the majority saying Pardew isn't good enough, a few acknowledging that he isn't good enough and wont be sacked, and a couple of older posters acknowledging he isn't good enough but maybe needs to be cut some slack and given the benefit of the doubt. Now splitting hairs about longs balls etc. Very true..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Again open to vast interpretation. A pin point 40 yard diagonal is by definition a "long ball". In the same way a long hopeful punt up to Cisse is a "long ball". This reliance on stats is ludicrous, people have watched it with their own eyes. Also "improvements" :lol: so we cut it back a bit. I should think so considering we threw five players in the mix. You've basically posted what I mockingly said the response would be. Not sure if it's serious. If we've averaged less than 55 long balls per game for the last 3 months, that is one of the lowest in the league man, irrespective of whether they're pinpoint or wild hoofs. Why is it irrespective? its completely relevant. You can use stats to prove a numeric value, but the interpretation is always key. There is obviously a massive difference. I'm staggered you think its the same thing. The condescension is great considering your point is invalid Its the same with any stat. A player could have 100% passing success. Each pass being 2 yards square. See the post from Chez to Wullie about shots on goal. He explained it far better than I could. House! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Oh a stats based Pardew defence. Makes me glad to be miles from civilization. It's not a stats based argument. I never brought a stat into it. I said 3 times that Pardew is relying less on long balls...you can see that if you watch our games and have watched them all season. But saying this obviously means nothing to people with preconceived notions and I was told he is as bad as ever. So I had to go to defcon 3. The same Pardew who manages players that forget his instructions as soon as the game starts? You're off your tits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 The same Pardew who manages players that forget his instructions as soon as the game starts? You're off your tits. You'll now get a graph to prove that he isn't and he'll produce a link to a dodgy website that backs him up, just wait and see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgarve Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 If pardew finished 6th next season, who would cut him some slack? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 He isn't going to finish 6th next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Or more than likely be ignored, just as I was when I pulled him up on his 'Shola's our best option from the bench' rubbish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Its not just about long ball though is it.... we are unorganised and lack any sort of cohesion not to mention when a player is in possession there is zero movement. Not to mention we sit insanely deep meaning when we do get the ball its very hard to translate defence to attack quickly, our transition play is god awful. Its all shit, not just long balls. If Pardew fixes all these problems then fair f*cking play but his past says he wont. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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