Alan Pardew

[Gallowgate Toon]

I like this 4-4-2 but I do prefer having a fast CB like Mapou involved allows for there to be more cover with the undernumbered midfield.

 

I do like having 2 upfront and I do like how strong our team is now and full of running, I know slight english stereotype but with the added bite of a creative midfield hub in Cabaye and wingers who cut in it's working very well and I don't agree that we are currently poor to watch, but we do flirt with being really scrappy and I do yearn for HBA lighting things up with his runs.

 

Mapou should definitely be starting, no question.

 

The best thing about Sissoko and Gouffran on the flanks is that they have a lot of good movement. Compare that to earlier in the year with Marveaux and HBA out wide, they just wanted the ball to feet all the time and never really got the full back on the turn.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

We played our best football under Pardew in a 4-3-3, I think it's pretty unfair to say he only knows 4-4-2. Not that playing 4-4-2 is in any way, shape or form a bad thing considering we've had some really exciting spells of football, of late. To be honest, I think we are a better team without Ben Arfa (at the minute). He's obviously massively talented but he currently doesn't offer as much defensive protection, work rate, consistency of decision-making or off-the-ball movement as Sissoko. I'm not too bothered about the former two attributes, but the latter two have been really useful over the last few games.

 

At the end of the day, it's a team game and it's all about having the players that complement one another in a shape that works, we've found that and it's produced some really good results. Ben Arfa's time will come but he has to change his game a bit, not for the worse either.

 

We did but it was kind of by default, due to the arrival of Cisse in the main. After his debut, the fee we paid and the hype, he had to start. He couldn't drop his top goalscore in BA ether and by that time Ben Arfa's wonder goals and skill was too tempting. When it didn't produce the reults though he dropped the whole system.

 

Pardew simply doesn't trust the players enough or any other system other than 4-4-2, that's why he relies so heavily on his own tactics or rather that's why his own tactics dominate our play so much. He's a stats man, prozone etc., he is all about meticulous detail and percentages. He's a silver haired slim southern Big Sam basically. Ironically, one of the reason's Allardyce failed here was because he tried to be something he wasn't, he tried to be too varied and too mixed with his tactics, set-ups, systems and with the players. Had he just kept to what he knew best he might have done much better.

 

I agree with your latter sentiments and points. It is a team game and we seem to have a good team at the moment even if it doesn't necessarily contain the best players. Shola starting for us in 2013? I know a lot of that is dictated by our lack of spending in the striker department since the arrival of Cisse/departure of Ba but still... Pardew uses him because he needs him, our whole way of playing needs Shola. He doesn't have the creative vision or the confidence and wherewithal to for example, build a team around the obvious talents of Cisse and Ben Arfa.

 

Sissoko is working wide-right for now but I look at his game, his attributes and when I see him wide I just think we are never ever going to see just what he can be or do. Same with Ben Arfa.

 

Thankfully Cabaye seems to be playing much further forward this season, I think that's more in part down to Tiote being fit and back to his old self rather than a conscious decision or tactic of Pardew's mind.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Mapou is like Cisse to Pardew. He is too much hard work. He likes to bring the ball out, he likes to pass it about, he likes to get involved and he likes to even go on a mazy run. He's a footballing defender and that's not what Pardew wants really. If he cut all that from his game and played like Williamson, he'd be one of the first names on the sheet but why work on him cutting it out when he can simply not play him and use him only when he needs to, ala Cisse?

 

Perhaps all that hard work he obviously has put into Ben Arfa but with no real success has made him think fuck that, its not worth it. It fits in with his percentages and back to basics type mindset really.

 

That's why I think he's been dropped and not Williamson. Obviously on paper Colo and Mapou should be starting. They are better players and better defenders but its about what Pardew wants back there and what he sees is better for the team I suppose. In that sense, Pardew is for once, being rationale and doing what is best for the team.

[Tiresias]

I think to assume Pardew has a massive anti Mapou bias is slightly harsh, he considers Colo his captain on the pitch and thinks we need him in the team, and Willo is playing fantastic so in his head made sense to replace our ball playing CB with Colo, does not mean he considers Mapou a liability or anything. I agree would prefer Colo had to fight harder for his place back but it's not amoung his most crazy choices.

[Elliottman]

Mapou is like Cisse to Pardew. He is too much hard work. He likes to bring the ball out, he likes to pass it about, he likes to get involved and he likes to even go on a mazy run. He's a footballing defender and that's not what Pardew wants really. If he cut all that from his game and played like Williamson, he'd be one of the first names on the sheet but why work on him cutting it out when he can simply not play him and use him only when he needs to, ala Cisse?

 

Perhaps all that hard work he obviously has put into Ben Arfa but with no real success has made him think f*** that, its not worth it. It fits in with his percentages and back to basics type mindset really.

 

That's why I think he's been dropped and not Williamson. Obviously on paper Colo and Mapou should be starting. They are better players and better defenders but its about what Pardew wants back there and what he sees is better for the team I suppose. In that sense, Pardew is for once, being rationale and doing what is best for the team.

 

Take it for what it's worth but mark Douglas reckons pardew doesn't full trust mym in he air enough yet.

[Yorkie]

4-4-2 is all Pardew knows how to employ to any effect, I agree with that. The 4-3-3 worked great but was obviously just a flash in the pan, where the momentum was with us. Last season, every variation of the 4-2-3-1 was more tragic than the last. He knows how to grind out results with a 4-4-2, which is why it was so stupid that we didn't get a winger in the summer. Fortunately he's struck lucky in having two players in Gouffran and Sissoko who both have ridiculous stamina levels, and have made the wings their own. Something else we've got away with.

[Gallowgate Toon]

We played our best football under Pardew in a 4-3-3, I think it's pretty unfair to say he only knows 4-4-2. Not that playing 4-4-2 is in any way, shape or form a bad thing considering we've had some really exciting spells of football, of late. To be honest, I think we are a better team without Ben Arfa (at the minute). He's obviously massively talented but he currently doesn't offer as much defensive protection, work rate, consistency of decision-making or off-the-ball movement as Sissoko. I'm not too bothered about the former two attributes, but the latter two have been really useful over the last few games.

 

At the end of the day, it's a team game and it's all about having the players that complement one another in a shape that works, we've found that and it's produced some really good results. Ben Arfa's time will come but he has to change his game a bit, not for the worse either.

 

We did but it was kind of by default, due to the arrival of Cisse in the main. After his debut, the fee we paid and the hype, he had to start. He couldn't drop his top goalscore in BA ether and by that time Ben Arfa's wonder goals and skill was too tempting. When it didn't produce the reults though he dropped the whole system.

 

Well, we played 4-4-2 a lot when Cisse arrived, we only switched to 4-3-3 against West Brom, IIRC. He has a habit of ripping things up when they fail, he'll do it with this current set up when it goes tits up. One of his biggest and most annoying flaws.

 

Pardew simply doesn't trust the players enough or any other system other than 4-4-2, that's why he relies so heavily on his own tactics or rather that's why his own tactics dominate our play so much. He's a stats man, prozone etc., he is all about meticulous detail and percentages. He's a silver haired slim southern Big Sam basically. Ironically, one of the reason's Allardyce failed here was because he tried to be something he wasn't, he tried to be too varied and too mixed with his tactics, set-ups, systems and with the players. Had he just kept to what he knew best he might have done much better.

 

I think that's simply untrue. I'd wager that over the last 18 months, we've played a 4-3-3 variant more than 2 up top, he obviously has trusted them with it but we've largely not delivered. I think he's got a bit more 'flair' to him than Fat Sam, same ilk though, I generally agree with that.

 

I agree with your latter sentiments and points. It is a team game and we seem to have a good team at the moment even if it doesn't necessarily contain the best players. Shola starting for us in 2013? I know a lot of that is dictated by our lack of spending in the striker department since the arrival of Cisse/departure of Ba but still... Pardew uses him because he needs him, our whole way of playing needs Shola. He doesn't have the creative vision or the confidence and wherewithal to for example, build a team around the obvious talents of Cisse and Ben Arfa.

 

There's really nothing wrong with Shola's role. Take Giroud away from Arsenal, Lewandowski from Dortmund, Mandzukic from Bayern and that will change how they play, they are integral to that style, for teams that are known for playing exciting attacking football. Having a player that can play in the air and on the deck has become pretty important over the last few years, it shouldn't be seen as a negative. I actually think Remy can play as the second striker, like he showed against Fulham, it just makes sense to have Remy-Shola in their current form.

 

Sissoko is working wide-right for now but I look at his game, his attributes and when I see him wide I just think we are never ever going to see just what he can be or do. Same with Ben Arfa.

 

I'm not too fussed if we don't see the complete best from him in the middle, if it's better for the team where he is now. Not that I think he's seen as a long-term option there, I think he will certainly get his shot in the centre in the future. I actually think we'll get the most out of him playing as a CM in a 4-4-2, rather than in a midfield 3

 

Thankfully Cabaye seems to be playing much further forward this season, I think that's more in part down to Tiote being fit and back to his old self rather than a conscious decision or tactic of Pardew's mind.

 

I think that's doing Pardew a disservice. This is as good as Cabaye has been playing for us, even when Tiote was performing to a similar level in 11/12, Cabaye wasn't as advanced as he is now. Credit to Pardew, in my opinion. Surely if Cabaye was going against his orders, we'd have seen a recent change in his game? If it wasn't initially a Pardew decision, then he deserves credit for having the positivity to continue with it.

[Guest palnese]

Anyone got that average position chart for the WBA game?

[cp40]

As our form gets better, do the Posts get longer as the explanation of Pardews Failings is more difficult ?

[Mole_Toonfan]

Mapou is like Cisse to Pardew. He is too much hard work. He likes to bring the ball out, he likes to pass it about, he likes to get involved and he likes to even go on a mazy run. He's a footballing defender and that's not what Pardew wants really. If he cut all that from his game and played like Williamson, he'd be one of the first names on the sheet but why work on him cutting it out when he can simply not play him and use him only when he needs to, ala Cisse?

 

Perhaps all that hard work he obviously has put into Ben Arfa but with no real success has made him think f*** that, its not worth it. It fits in with his percentages and back to basics type mindset really.

 

That's why I think he's been dropped and not Williamson. Obviously on paper Colo and Mapou should be starting. They are better players and better defenders but its about what Pardew wants back there and what he sees is better for the team I suppose. In that sense, Pardew is for once, being rationale and doing what is best for the team.

 

Nothing to do with it.... he seemed to trust him enough without Colo. He just doesn't have the balls to put Colo on the bench when he's actually fit.

 

Williamson is not really in the equation, because he won't play Colo and Mbiwa together again after the Everton debacle and Williamson in this form is a decent compliment to both of them.

 

In any case Colo is going to leave in the summer so the decision will be made for him.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Mapou is like Cisse to Pardew. He is too much hard work. He likes to bring the ball out, he likes to pass it about, he likes to get involved and he likes to even go on a mazy run. He's a footballing defender and that's not what Pardew wants really. If he cut all that from his game and played like Williamson, he'd be one of the first names on the sheet but why work on him cutting it out when he can simply not play him and use him only when he needs to, ala Cisse?

 

Perhaps all that hard work he obviously has put into Ben Arfa but with no real success has made him think f*** that, its not worth it. It fits in with his percentages and back to basics type mindset really.

 

That's why I think he's been dropped and not Williamson. Obviously on paper Colo and Mapou should be starting. They are better players and better defenders but its about what Pardew wants back there and what he sees is better for the team I suppose. In that sense, Pardew is for once, being rationale and doing what is best for the team.

 

Nothing to do with it.... he seemed to trust him enough without Colo. He just doesn't have the balls to put Colo on the bench when he's actually fit.

 

Williamson is not really in the equation, because he won't play Colo and Mbiwa together again after the Everton debacle and Williamson in this form is a decent compliment to both of them.

 

In any case Colo is going to leave in the summer so the decision will be made for him.

 

Either way its always the easier decision with Pardew. He should be playing Colo and Mapou together because they are clearly both very good footballers and the latter can only benefit from playing alongside someone as experienced as Colo. But that requires thinking outside of the box, that requires a degree of balls.

 

Having said that, Williamson doesn't deserve dropping and of course football isn't played on paper so...

[Mole_Toonfan]

Tbh i see why he choses Williamson plus one other as its a better compliment for the team.

 

He'll want to replace Colo with a towering CB as well i'd imagine and rightly so tbf, at this point its going to be Colo or Mbiwa for the rest of the season as Pardew prefers it that way.

 

I don't have a problem with it really, but i do feel Mbiwa should be bedded in and starting as Colo will be off soon and Mbiwa is seen as the replacement.

 

But i can't see him dropping Colo when he's fit.

[Mick]

But if we won the league, why would it matter if he played negative football? (which we're not at the moment)

 

It wouldn't matter, I'd take winning the League Cup in the 120th minute of every game playing negative football if it meant winning a trophy.

[NG32]

Hull result really sticks in my neck and that first half preformace at Sunderland. 

[captainhaircut]

Re Ben Arfa, it's easy to blame Pardew for his failings when the reality is that he's played the best football of his career under Pardew.

 

He's always been a massively frustrating and inconsistent player despite being one of the most naturally talented players in the world. That's why he plays for us.

 

Pardew actually managed to get some consistent football out of him until he did his hammy last year. Since then, he's been very, very hit and miss.

[Dave]

He was easily our best performing player in early season tbf.

[Guest]

He was easily our best performing player in early season tbf.

 

Yep, up to the Hull game he was our best player by far.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Re Ben Arfa, it's easy to blame Pardew for his failings when the reality is that he's played the best football of his career under Pardew.

 

He's always been a massively frustrating and inconsistent player despite being one of the most naturally talented players in the world. That's why he plays for us.

 

Pardew actually managed to get some consistent football out of him until he did his hammy last year. Since then, he's been very, very hit and miss.

 

Put Ben Arfa in the team and give him the confidence to express himself and he will justify his place with goals, assists and moments of brilliance that can separate a draw from a defeat or a win from a draw. The simple fact is that Pardew cannot find a place for Ben Arfa in his preffered 4-4-2, however, because Ben Arfa is too much of a risk from a defensive perspective. He has tried to fit him in using other formations, systems, tactics and even roles for the player himself but for whatever reason things haven't worked, or he hasn't given things enough time.

 

And that's mainly down to his own failings as a manager and coach than any failings of the player. He is not a false number 9 whatever the fuck that is nor is he a winger, right or left. You play Ben Arfa in a free role and you compensate for any defensive short comings in other ways because offensively, he is that good and that critical to the art of scoring goals, you know, the very thing that wins games...

 

While its foolish to build a team around one single player, surely there is a place for Ben Arfa in our first team and on a regular basis? I know there is but for that to become so requires a change in shape, tactics and system for the team and a change in role for the player. Pardew just doesn't have the vision to see this nor the skills to make it work, however, as we have found out time and time again to the point where under Pardew we really are better off without him  in the side and that's a fucking shame.

[Cajun]

Ben Arfa was fine, tracking back, working pretty hard. Then Pardew decided he wanted to do something else with him (Like the Tiote/Essien thing) and undid all the good work.

 

We don't need HBA being like Jonas or even Gouffran, just come back when needed and he has shown he has the intelligence to knick the ball off players without having to be a tough tackler.

 

No idea why Pardew thinks he needed to change Ben Arfa after he got the balance between freedom and team work right.

[High Five o]

HTT is pretty much spot on, good posts! 

[Guest hatem garrincha]

Agree with HTT. Ben Arfa isn't needed, neither useful in the current Pardew formation.

 

[joeyt]

When this one gets closed will the next Pardew thread be the 3rd or 4th one?

[Ikon]

When this one gets closed will the next Pardew thread be the 3rd or 4th one?

 

Not sure, but im thinking of reading through every post in the Pardew threads again and also translate them in chinese

[cp40]

some day someone will ask if its the 10th thread yet.

[Dokko]

When this one gets closed will the next Pardew thread be the 3rd or 4th one?

 

Not sure, but im thinking of reading through every post in the Pardew threads again and also translate them to Chinese

 

Won't take long since there has only ever been 6 posts across 4,000 pages which have had any variation.