Alan Pardew

[Cajun]

Contrasting "Pardew" things over the weekend.

Friday bumped into a bunch of fans from around England and Northern Ireland who were of the opinion that Pardew was a good manager and couldn't understand why we didn't like him. A couple used the anti-southern thing as a possible reason and without actually using the "D" word they wondered why we thought we could get a better manager than him right now? Of course I tried to explain that the majority of fans think he's an ok manager, some rate him higher than that and some don't.

Saturday afternoon, unless my ears were mistaking me, I heard a long and loud "Alan Pardew's black and white army" from the Strawberry corner.

Certainly not much sign of anti southern bias or delusions of courting a "bigger" manager there then. 

 

I feel much better after reading that, thanks.

 

Aye that chant must have been grating on you.

 

I'll be surprised if that doesn't come back to bite them on the arse tbh.

 

They were chanting it during the worse points this season and last as well which riled a fair few on here.

 

Rather than biting them in the arse, maybe their patient support could be seen as credible, even admirable?

 

That depends on how things pan out really doesn't it? I'll take it one game at a time for now. What I wanted from the manager was a defined style and some organisation above all else, and tbf in the last few games I'm seeing it for the first time in a year. If he can keep that up and adapt to sides that look to nullify it then he'll deserve credit no doubt. I don't expect us to be winning CL spots, but if we can show progress every year then that's all anyone can ask for.

 

Maybe people just shouldn't be criticised for supporting the players/manager etc.. even if you personally think they are a bit deluded?

 

Never understand why some get so angry at the "happy, clappy" brigade. More power to them tbh at least they seem to enjoy it.

 

Yes some go over the top in attacking the happy clappy brigade, but on a forum like this there's going to be disagreements.

 

Of course but it is getting a bit silly now, when you start seeing people having a dig at people like Ian W in the general chat forum about his football opinions..

[colinmk]

Ben Arfa would be the first name on the teamsheet for me, and probably 90% of managers. For the squad we have though, playing the way we are at the minute, there isn't really much room for him in Pardew's side.

 

I certainly prefer this than being trounced every week like.

 

[jdckelly]

Ben Arfa would be the first name on the teamsheet for me, and probably 90% of managers. For the squad we have though, playing the way we are at the minute, there isn't really much room for him in Pardew's side.

 

I certainly prefer this than being trounced every week like.

 

for me its very similar to the 5th place season in the back to basics right now but hopefully now as then as confidence builds we can improve the attacking side. Still on the bright side the football is by no ones standards bad

[JH]

We could win every single game this season and I'd still have the same opinion of him.

 

Think he's unnecessarily negative in both his words and team setup. We're on target to qualify for that Europe that he was glad we weren't in this year though

[Jayson]

We're doing much better & playing a nicer style of football mostly.

 

The key issue for me is still what happens when the opposition scores first or we go behind in a game. Thats our weakness, no coincidence that hasnt happened in the last 4 wins.

 

Clean sheets & scoring first are very important for us to do well, it cant always be like that if we're to be a top side.

[jdckelly]

We're doing much better & playing a nicer style of football mostly.

 

The key issue for me is still what happens when the opposition scores first or we go behind in a game. Thats our weakness, no coincidence that hasnt happened in the last 4 wins.

 

Clean sheets & scoring first are very important for us to do well, it cant always be like that if we're to be a top side.

the key could be how Pardew handles a much improved bench, compare the bench yesterday to any from most of last season and apart from a woefully out of form Cisse there's decent options on there to change things around when necessary whether he will or not more often than he has is still debatable 

[colinmk]

We could win every single game this season and I'd still have the same opinion of him.

 

Think he's unnecessarily negative in both his words and team setup. We're on target to qualify for that Europe that he was glad we weren't in this year though

 

Me too. Hopefully he does the right thing and resigns if we qualify.

[Zero]

We could win every single game this season and I'd still have the same opinion of him.

 

Think he's unnecessarily negative in both his words and team setup. We're on target to qualify for that Europe that he was glad we weren't in this year though

 

Me too. Hopefully he does the right thing and resigns if we qualify.

 

Yep

 

Never happen though.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I fucking hate Pardew, but that's ridiculous tbh.

[madras]

We could win every single game this season and I'd still have the same opinion of him.

 

Think he's unnecessarily negative in both his words and team setup. We're on target to qualify for that Europe that he was glad we weren't in this year though

dear me. theres some shite posted on here but that just about tops everything.

[Cajun]

We could win every single game this season and I'd still have the same opinion of him.

 

Think he's unnecessarily negative in both his words and team setup. We're on target to qualify for that Europe that he was glad we weren't in this year though

dear me. theres some shite posted on here but that just about tops everything.

 

Basically we qualify for the champions league and win the premier league

[Dave]

I fucking hate Pardew, but that's ridiculous tbh.

[Guest bimpy474]

We could win every single game this season and I'd still have the same opinion of him.

 

Think he's unnecessarily negative in both his words and team setup. We're on target to qualify for that Europe that he was glad we weren't in this year though

 

<a href="http://reactiongifs.com/?p=7062"><img src="http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/firefly.gif"></a>

[Optimistic Nut]

[Parky]

Deserves credit for being above Spurs & Man U who'd have been in most peoples top 4s in the summer after 1/3 of the season.

[Tiresias]

Blimey 

 

He deserves credit for improving how we've played since last season, even if a lot of that season has to be laid at his door. You can't credit him for us being shit then suddenly absolve him of credit when we're good.

 

Thing is the one thing he's always been decent at is man management, and after and even during last season it would be very easy for the team spirit to completely fragment, but the players still seem to be playing for each other a lot barring a few exceptions, and that I think has allowed him to claw back some form, that and talented players playing their way out of bad form.

 

Tactically I still think he's a coward who will always go with the most cautious option and with him our ambition will always be limited, but we're doing alright at the moment and he's picked us up after what could have been a serious wobble with the sunderland result.

[Mick]

I f***ing hate Pardew, but that's ridiculous tbh.

 

That depends, Pardew could be "unnecessarily negative in both his words and team setup" and win every game.  Winning every game wouldn't change the fact that he was negative, hypothetically.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Completely agree with him not playing Ben Arfa, we are a much better team without him.

 

Yet we could be such a much better team with him in it, so much better. Only the idiot in the dugout knows nowt better than 4-4-2. Actually, to his credit, he has tried to change things, fit in Ben Arfa etc. so to say he knows nowt but 4-4-2 is wrong. He just doesn't know how to get anything other than 4-4-2 to work and although its not doing us any harm at the moment, because we are winning, long-term we need more variation, we need to be able to play another way and we need Ben Arfa in our side because quite frankly, he is our best player.

 

For Pardew to have him on the bench says everything about him as a manager and his limitations. He has tried and tried to fit him in and tried different styles and systems, again all to his credit, but because he doesn't trust him fully he reverts back to type which is a hard working wide man which Ben Arfa has tried to be but by being that player you're wasting a shirt almost.

 

So he's out of the team and probably never going to ammount to anything here. For fans of his which I am one of, its time to accept that under Pardew he and players like him, i.e. Marveux and maybe even your Anitas, will never really blossom because they are not 4-4-2 material which is Pardew's stamp.

 

What we are now seeing is the right players being used in the right formation for Pardew. Given our quality we are going to win games. We have one of the Premier League's top goalscorers in Remy. Cabaye and Tiote are back to their best and can be a formidable pair. Goufran and Sissoko are willing hard working wide man who can narrow the pitch if need be or stretch it with their pace and power. They also provide a goal threat. Shola is a capable target man and we play to him, he has become our focal point in attack. In defence we have two full-backs who are well protected and in the centre we have a good combo whether its Williamson or Colo, Williamson or Mapou or Colo and Mapou. In Krul we have someone when the defence is breached, can keep the ball out of the net.

 

Good players for 4-4-2, the right players for the way we play. All basic stuff and its working. But will it last and even if it doesn't, it needs to work well enough enough times to succeed long-term. And I don't think it will. It relies on the current lot being fit, up for it and in the mood and for other factors to go our way as well.

 

The minute Goufran gets injured or Shola for example and we will struggle because Pardew has shown he is not capable of playing any other way to any great degree of success.

 

That's why he's a limited manager and why we will never reach the heights we really can with these players. Ben Arfa could tear this league apart. A confident Cisse with the right service will get you a boat load of goals. Anita is a clever player who can do Tiote's job but better. But Pardew would never put him in there because he's not mean enough, he doesn't kick enough players and he isn't tough enough.

 

Anita is a very good and clever passer, he can sit and protect the back four but also contribute in the final 3rd. A manager with vision would look at Tiote and Anita and would see that the latter would bring so much more to the team than Tiote who I actually rate by the way. But in a 4-4-2, Tiote is your man.

 

Ben Arfa can't be trusted in Pardew's system full stop, despite the numerous attempts. He's too free thinking, too much of a free spirit. Pardew doesn't like that, he needs his wide men to work tirelessly for 90 minutes up and down. He doesn't want his wide man drifting infield to go on some mazy run leaving the full-back exposed or the midfield too crowded.

 

Up front Cisse is too much hard work for Pardew, you can't lump it long to him like you can Shola. You can't ask him to go toe to toe with a defender or to come deep into midfield to help out. Well you can and Pardew has tried but he isn't that kind of payer. Cisse needs movement and through balls, he needs time and space. When he first signed we played some wonderful free flowing little triangles in and around the final 3rd. We were a joy to watch at times. We worked the ball so well.

 

That was akin to the defender getting a nose bleed going forwards to Pardew though. Back to kick and rush or 4-4-2.

 

Remy has been huge for us, he's perfect. He's similar to what Bellamy was under Sir Bobby, only he's a much better finisher. Mind he lacks Bellamy's none stop work-rate and searing pace. Remy offers us a threat over the top with his pace, clever movement and running. He can also drift wide of the centre-forward.

 

Shola has also been huge for us as the centre-forward because without him we would have to play Cisse who as we all know isn't and never will thrive for us in such a role/system and that is why we often struggle when he is in the side. Ba thrived because he has the attributes Shola does, and then sum.

 

So 4-4-2 it is and we are winning games and doing well so credit to Pardew, but only just mind. There is nothing magical about the way we play or anything remotely great. We are a hard working side, with a team of players who have great spirit, players who are not f***ing bad you know. So we are going to win games, especially if said players are played in the right place and with the right role in the right system. Sissoko is never a number 10. Goufran isn't a CF. Remy isn't either.

 

This is our limit though as a team under Pardew, 4-4-2 and the likes of Ben Arfa on the sidelines.

 

Finish top 6 and I'd settle for that but we could really go places as a team, with the players we have. We shouldn't have to sit back against the likes of Norwich to protect a 1-0 lead or be incapable of some possession football. We have players who should be trusted to play their stuff in a way which is worth watching, worth getting excited about and worth dreaming of a better future with.

 

Getting back to Pardew he deserves massive credit for this turnaround following the mackem debacle and he deserves credit for the lack of hoof-ball this season. We still play direct and long football at times but its not aimless guff and its only ever a last resort or option these days. He also deserves credit for going back to basics, sticking with the 4-4-2 and the players he is using.

 

It its not broke and all that RE Shola/Ben Arfa/Anita...

 

It does make me wonder just how much of last season and the start of this one we have wasted by trying this or that formation, using players here there and everywhere (Ben Arfa, Sissoko, Cisse etc.). I really do believe following our 5th place finish and his manager of the year award he went all f***ing crazy RE systems, tactics and player roles and didn't he look f***ing stupid and way out of his depth doing so.

 

Stick to what you know best eh?!

[Optimistic Nut]

But if we won the league, why would it matter if he played negative football? (which we're not at the moment)

[Zero]

wow

[Tiresias]

I for one would accept negative footy if it meant winning every game, I don't think you could be that negative and get 3 points every game mind, sure it'd be miserable at times, and would be nice if we got more positive the next season, but imagine winning the league! Call me a pragmatist...

[Ikon]

Good post HTT.

[Tiresias]

Good post HTT.

 

Curse of the new page after you post a giant post strikes

[Gallowgate Toon]

We played our best football under Pardew in a 4-3-3, I think it's pretty unfair to say he only knows 4-4-2. Not that playing 4-4-2 is in any way, shape or form a bad thing considering we've had some really exciting spells of football, of late. To be honest, I think we are a better team without Ben Arfa (at the minute). He's obviously massively talented but he currently doesn't offer as much defensive protection, work rate, consistency of decision-making or off-the-ball movement as Sissoko. I'm not too bothered about the former two attributes, but the latter two have been really useful over the last few games.

 

At the end of the day, it's a team game and it's all about having the players that complement one another in a shape that works, we've found that and it's produced some really good results. Ben Arfa's time will come but he has to change his game a bit, not for the worse either.

[Tiresias]

I like this 4-4-2 but I do prefer having a fast CB like Mapou involved allows for there to be more cover with the undernumbered midfield.

 

I do like having 2 upfront and I do like how strong our team is now and full of running, I know slight english stereotype but with the added bite of a creative midfield hub in Cabaye and wingers who cut in it's working very well and I don't agree that we are currently poor to watch, but we do flirt with being really scrappy and I do yearn for HBA lighting things up with his runs.