Man City 4 - 0 Newcastle United - 19/08/13 - post-'match' reaction from page 63

[Andy]

Just going back to what I said about 2011/12, we went the first 11 Premier League games unbeaten and set up the whole season with basically this side and formation almost exclusively.

 

Krul

Simpson S.Taylor Coloccini R.Taylor

Obertan Cabaye Tiote Gutierrez

Ba Best

 

Simpler times.

 

The simplicity of that set-up was perfect for Pardew. Defenders who were just expected to defend; natural width (none of these fancy wide-forward types); one defensive midfielder and one creative midfielder; and two forwards who could thrive on crosses and direct play. Simple and thus effective for a manager who isn't smart enough to handle the more complex set-ups that he tries to think about these days. 

 

 

Unfortunately I don't think we have the squad to play that kind of thing now, either players have left (and not replaced) or have gone downhill rapidly.

 

This is the problem with keeping Pardew and yet not backing him in the transfer market. He's shite, you've got to allow for that.

 

Yup. The downside to the continental-moulding of the squad is that Pardew has no clue when it comes to the modern continental systems that these players are used to playing. They don't fit into his preferred traditional 4-4-2 system, and he isn't flexible or clever enough to create a system that suits them. The scouting process over the last few windows was designed to bring in bargain-bin players without any real consideration of where they'd fit, and the hope was apparently that Pards would just make it work, but unfortunately he isn't capable of that. Either the bargain-bin approach needs to change, or they need a premium manager to make it work.

[Mike]

Agree, I was harsh on Krul tbf.

 

Can't really choose between Cisse, Taylor, Debuchy, Colo and Tiote for worst player. All of them beyond hopeless.

 

I'm not sure how Coloccini was one of our worst, in the first half I thought we only had 3 players and Coloccini was one of them along with Krul and Ben Arfa.

 

Aye, criminal to see his name alongside those others. Taylor was the worst, with Debuchy not too far behind.

 

If Taylor didn't club that dude, would Debuchy be the worst? Because Debuchy was the worst.

 

Taylor's performance was compounded by that moment, but lest us forget that he should have probably had a penalty against him (like Debuchy) before that. While his defending on goal #1 was equally as bad as Debuchy's and his defending on goal #2 was even worse.

 

If we're just basing it on first half, Taylor was the worst.

 

I think I'm too used to Taylor's shit play to really see how bad it was today. I've seen Debuchy have pockets of play where he looks like he shouldn't be out there, but never 90 sustained minutes of just fucking garbage.

[Rich]

Just going back to what I said about 2011/12, we went the first 11 Premier League games unbeaten and set up the whole season with basically this side and formation almost exclusively.

 

Krul

Simpson S.Taylor Coloccini R.Taylor

Obertan Cabaye Tiote Gutierrez

Ba Best

 

Simpler times.

 

The simplicity of that set-up was perfect for Pardew. Defenders who were just expected to defend; natural width (none of these fancy wide-forward types); one defensive midfielder and one creative midfielder; and two forwards who could thrive on crosses and direct play. Simple and thus effective for a manager who isn't smart enough to handle the more complex set-ups that he tries to think about these days. 

 

 

Unfortunately I don't think we have the squad to play that kind of thing now, either players have left (and not replaced) or have gone downhill rapidly.

 

This is the problem with keeping Pardew and yet not backing him in the transfer market. He's shite, you've got to allow for that.

 

Yup. The downside to the continental-moulding of the squad is that Pardew has no clue when it comes to the modern continental systems that these players are used to playing. They don't fit into his preferred traditional 4-4-2 system, and he isn't flexible or clever enough to create a system that suits them. The scouting process over the last few windows was designed to bring in bargain-bin players without any real consideration of where they'd fit, and the hope was apparently that Pards would just make it work, but unfortunately he isn't capable of that. Either the bargain-bin approach needs to change, or they need a premium manager to make it work.

 

I have seen some evidence to the contrary in regards to this point, which makes it all the more frustrating.

 

I'd also take more 4-0 away humpings if it gets you posting more. Maybe. Not really.

[Guest neesy111]

This isn't a team, it's a just a bunch of individuals.

[Guest bimpy474]

Bringing in these players, we should have brought in a manager for them. A rather bad oversight on Ashleys part, mind you, you can't beat a bit of stability.

[Rich]

Agree, I was harsh on Krul tbf.

 

Can't really choose between Cisse, Taylor, Debuchy, Colo and Tiote for worst player. All of them beyond hopeless.

 

I'm not sure how Coloccini was one of our worst, in the first half I thought we only had 3 players and Coloccini was one of them along with Krul and Ben Arfa.

 

Aye, criminal to see his name alongside those others. Taylor was the worst, with Debuchy not too far behind.

 

If Taylor didn't club that dude, would Debuchy be the worst? Because Debuchy was the worst.

 

Taylor's performance was compounded by that moment, but lest us forget that he should have probably had a penalty against him (like Debuchy) before that. While his defending on goal #1 was equally as bad as Debuchy's and his defending on goal #2 was even worse.

 

If we're just basing it on first half, Taylor was the worst.

 

I think I'm too used to Taylor's shit play to really see how bad it was today. I've seen Debuchy have pockets of play where he looks like he shouldn't be out there, but never 90 sustained minutes of just fucking garbage.

 

 

I was one of those defending Debuchy initially last season due to his mid-season arrival into a fucked team, but today did not help my case at all.

[Robbo]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/manchester-city-4-newcastle-united-0-toon-armys-blind-faith-gives-way-to-wideeyed-despondency-at-demise-8775373.html

Manchester City 4 Newcastle United 0: Toon army’s blind faith gives way to wide-eyed despondency at demise

 

The Newcastle fans had never travelled to Manchester so certain of defeat

 

Tim Rich

Etihad Stadium

Monday 19 August 2013

 

The favourite to become the first Premier League manager to be sacked stood on the touchline with his legs and arms crossed. Frankly, it was as good a plan as any. You wondered what, other than the word “help”, was written on the pad on which Alan Pardew made entries throughout Newcastle’s long, dreadful night.

 

Nobody on Tyneside imagined anything else. There are many things that separate Newcastle from Sunderland and one of them is that on Wearside they expect things to go wrong and are seldom disappointed. The Toon Army was always an organisation that marched on blind optimism.

 

In 1999 they had begun the season by taking one point from their first seven matches under three different managers. Then, in Bobby Robson’s first game at St James’ Park, they thrashed Sheffield Wednesday 8-0. Alan Shearer scored five. The next day, Alan Oliver, the Newcastle Evening Chronicle’s football correspondent, was phoned at his desk by an excited supporter.

 

“We can do this y’know,” said the voice. Yes, Oliver agreed, he thought so too. However, the men were talking at cross-purposes. The journalist was talking of Newcastle avoiding relegation. The fan was arguing that they could still win the championship. They were then second bottom, 16 points adrift of Manchester United.

 

That optimism was there in the massed banners and costumes that accompanied Newcastle to successive FA Cup finals under Kenny Dalglish and Ruud Gullit. It was there in the cars that circled St James’ Park with scarves fluttering out of windows and horns blaring as if Newcastle were suddenly Buenos Aires on the night Mike Ashley brought back Kevin Keegan. It was there when they massed in front of the Milburn Stand as Shearer returned in vain attempt to save the club he loved from relegation,

 

That optimism has been entirely extinguished. Newcastle’s record in Manchester is a dismal one. Since 1972 they have played 54 league fixtures there and won twice, both at Maine Road, but they would never have travelled there so certain of defeat. Last night they sang: “There’s only one Bobby Robson.”

 

Before the match Moussa Sissoko had declared in the pages of the Evening Chronicle that Manchester City should not be feared. There is, admittedly not much else the midfielder might have said but the interview was greeted with guffaws that sounded the length of the Tyne. One of the most fervently supported clubs in Europe did not sell their ticket allocation for the match.

 

It was not a performance that would have encouraged Yohan Cabaye to linger. Pardew had remarked that following Arsenal’s bid, he had been withdrawn “for the good of the team”. There may have been a danger that with London and Paris St-Germain calling, Cabaye’s head would be elsewhere. However, it is hard to imagine he would have been less focused than Steven Taylor. The centre-half is a product of the Newcastle Academy and was the only Englishman, let alone Geordie, in Pardew’s starting line-up. Taylor is a decent bloke and in love with his club but so were all of those in the stands wearing black-and-white shirts. Moments after he escaped conceding a penalty for handball, Taylor used his arm to knock Sergio Aguero to the ground to get himself witlessly sent off. It was part of a wider pattern.

 

But for a fortuitous win over Fulham, Newcastle might have been relegated last season and they look a decent bet this time around. Pardew’s authority has been stripped away, first by the departure of the man who appointed him, the managing director, Derek Llambias and then by the arrival of Joe Kinnear as director of football.

 

It was a move as wilfully insulting as engaging a firm that the MP for Newcastle Central described as “legalised loan sharks” to sponsor their shirts. Papiss Cissé may not have liked Wonga but, judging from his display at the Etihad, he likes playing as a lone striker even less. Kinnear, a man who once called the midfielder, “Johan Kebab” is the man who presumably will be given the task of encouraging Cabaye to stay.

 

In his two months in charge of transfers Kinnear has signed one recruit, Loïc Rémy, who has the grace and style the Gallowgate might appreciate but who is also injured, on £80,000 a week and facing a charge of rape. Credible candidates like Ricky van Wolfswinkel, Darren Bent and Pablo Osvaldo have gone to Norwich, Fulham and Southampton, clubs that have nothing like Newcastle’s appeal.

 

Tim Krul, who made his first save after two minutes and made them repeatedly thereafter, was Newcastle’s lone hero. This was his first match since he dislocated his shoulder in a derby against Sunderland that Newcastle lost 3-0. This, in its own way, would have hurt just as deeply.

 

 

Soul destroying stuff.

 

[Andy]

Just going back to what I said about 2011/12, we went the first 11 Premier League games unbeaten and set up the whole season with basically this side and formation almost exclusively.

 

Krul

Simpson S.Taylor Coloccini R.Taylor

Obertan Cabaye Tiote Gutierrez

Ba Best

 

Simpler times.

 

The simplicity of that set-up was perfect for Pardew. Defenders who were just expected to defend; natural width (none of these fancy wide-forward types); one defensive midfielder and one creative midfielder; and two forwards who could thrive on crosses and direct play. Simple and thus effective for a manager who isn't smart enough to handle the more complex set-ups that he tries to think about these days. 

 

 

Unfortunately I don't think we have the squad to play that kind of thing now, either players have left (and not replaced) or have gone downhill rapidly.

 

This is the problem with keeping Pardew and yet not backing him in the transfer market. He's shite, you've got to allow for that.

 

Yup. The downside to the continental-moulding of the squad is that Pardew has no clue when it comes to the modern continental systems that these players are used to playing. They don't fit into his preferred traditional 4-4-2 system, and he isn't flexible or clever enough to create a system that suits them. The scouting process over the last few windows was designed to bring in bargain-bin players without any real consideration of where they'd fit, and the hope was apparently that Pards would just make it work, but unfortunately he isn't capable of that. Either the bargain-bin approach needs to change, or they need a premium manager to make it work.

 

I have seen some evidence to the contrary in regards to this point, which makes it all the more frustrating.

 

I'd also take more 4-0 away humpings if it gets you posting more. Maybe. Not really.

 

If that's how it works hopefully you won't see much of me.

 

I'm normally quite passive towards football these days, I read a lot, but never get angry enough anymore to be bothered enough to lay into the useless cunts. Tonight tipped the scales though. Far from our worst result recently, but the lack of progression either on the pitch or off it over the summer is infuriating... I can't remember ever coming into a season feeling exactly the same way that I did before the final game of the previous season. But that's how it is here. No optimism or hope, just an internal certainty that everything will remain exactly as it was... In this case: gash. Smelly, fishy, rotten old gash. 

[Kanji]

 

 

I was one of those defending Debuchy initially last season due to his mid-season arrival into a f***ed team, but today did not help my case at all.

 

Same - as I posted in his thread, massive supporter of his and abilities given how much I watched him once we were linked with him and such. He's not shown anything of what he was doing regularly in France or for the national setup. I really can't explain why, not sure many can - its just clear he's really not up to speed what so ever and the struggling team thing was what I thought as well.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Agree, I was harsh on Krul tbf.

 

Can't really choose between Cisse, Taylor, Debuchy, Colo and Tiote for worst player. All of them beyond hopeless.

 

I'm not sure how Coloccini was one of our worst, in the first half I thought we only had 3 players and Coloccini was one of them along with Krul and Ben Arfa.

 

Aye, criminal to see his name alongside those others. Taylor was the worst, with Debuchy not too far behind.

 

If Taylor didn't club that dude, would Debuchy be the worst? Because Debuchy was the worst.

 

Taylor's performance was compounded by that moment, but lest us forget that he should have probably had a penalty against him (like Debuchy) before that. While his defending on goal #1 was equally as bad as Debuchy's and his defending on goal #2 was even worse.

 

If we're just basing it on first half, Taylor was the worst.

 

I think I'm too used to Taylor's s*** play to really see how bad it was today. I've seen Debuchy have pockets of play where he looks like he shouldn't be out there, but never 90 sustained minutes of just f***ing garbage.

 

 

I was one of those defending Debuchy initially last season due to his mid-season arrival into a f***ed team, but today did not help my case at all.

 

Me as well, in fact if anything i'm getting to the stage now where i'm getting annoyed with him and losing my patience.

[madras]

Agree, I was harsh on Krul tbf.

 

Can't really choose between Cisse, Taylor, Debuchy, Colo and Tiote for worst player. All of them beyond hopeless.

 

I'm not sure how Coloccini was one of our worst, in the first half I thought we only had 3 players and Coloccini was one of them along with Krul and Ben Arfa.

 

Aye, criminal to see his name alongside those others. Taylor was the worst, with Debuchy not too far behind.

 

If Taylor didn't club that dude, would Debuchy be the worst? Because Debuchy was the worst.

 

Taylor's performance was compounded by that moment, but lest us forget that he should have probably had a penalty against him (like Debuchy) before that. While his defending on goal #1 was equally as bad as Debuchy's and his defending on goal #2 was even worse.

 

If we're just basing it on first half, Taylor was the worst.

 

I think I'm too used to Taylor's s*** play to really see how bad it was today. I've seen Debuchy have pockets of play where he looks like he shouldn't be out there, but never 90 sustained minutes of just f***ing garbage.

 

 

I was one of those defending Debuchy initially last season due to his mid-season arrival into a f***ed team, but today did not help my case at all.

 

Me as well, in fact if anything i'm getting to the stage now where i'm getting annoyed with him and losing my patience.

half a season.....do you like colo ?

[Mole_Toonfan]

Agree, I was harsh on Krul tbf.

 

Can't really choose between Cisse, Taylor, Debuchy, Colo and Tiote for worst player. All of them beyond hopeless.

 

I'm not sure how Coloccini was one of our worst, in the first half I thought we only had 3 players and Coloccini was one of them along with Krul and Ben Arfa.

 

Aye, criminal to see his name alongside those others. Taylor was the worst, with Debuchy not too far behind.

 

If Taylor didn't club that dude, would Debuchy be the worst? Because Debuchy was the worst.

 

Taylor's performance was compounded by that moment, but lest us forget that he should have probably had a penalty against him (like Debuchy) before that. While his defending on goal #1 was equally as bad as Debuchy's and his defending on goal #2 was even worse.

 

If we're just basing it on first half, Taylor was the worst.

 

I think I'm too used to Taylor's s*** play to really see how bad it was today. I've seen Debuchy have pockets of play where he looks like he shouldn't be out there, but never 90 sustained minutes of just f***ing garbage.

 

 

I was one of those defending Debuchy initially last season due to his mid-season arrival into a f***ed team, but today did not help my case at all.

 

Me as well, in fact if anything i'm getting to the stage now where i'm getting annoyed with him and losing my patience.

half a season.....do you like colo ?

 

Never said i don't like him just he's annoying me at the moment, i still believe he'll come good.

[Ronaldo]

Colo looked like a top defender with weaknesses from the start imo. Debuchy looks like he's not actually a defender.

[Guest neesy111]

Debuchy reminds me of Santon in the defensive side of the game, i.e. non-existent.

[Deuce]

Not according to Sky.

 

 

According to my eyes it was 4-4-2.

 

Yep.

 

They started off 4-3-3, for the first 6 minutes or so. As soon as Zabaleta started hurtling down the flank, Jonas pushed out left to counter him. 4-4-2/4-4-1 for the majority of the match.

[Belfast Mags]

Not according to Sky.

 

 

According to my eyes it was 4-4-2.

 

Yep.

 

They started off 4-3-3, for the first 6 minutes or so. As soon as Zabaleta started hurtling down the flank, Jonas pushed out left to counter him. 4-4-2/4-4-1 for the majority of the match.

 

This is how I saw/read it 

[jdckelly]

Debuchy reminds me of Santon in the defensive side of the game, i.e. non-existent.

don't think Santons ever looked that lost defensively it seriously looked like he's only vaguely heard of the concept and his attacking game is not good enough to put up with being such a liability

[mrmojorisin75]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/manchester-city-4-newcastle-united-0-toon-armys-blind-faith-gives-way-to-wideeyed-despondency-at-demise-8775373.html

Pardew’s authority has been stripped away, first by the departure of the man who appointed him, the managing director, Derek Llambias and then by the arrival of Joe Kinnear as director of football.

 

aye, stripping away his authority and bringing in kinnear were the things that made him utterly inept last season as well

 

 

 

[Ronaldo]

Debuchy reminds me of Santon in the defensive side of the game, i.e. non-existent.

don't think Santons ever looked that lost defensively it seriously looked like he's only vaguely heard of the concept and his attacking game is not good enough to put up with being such a liability

 

Agree with that.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Debuchy reminds me of Santon in the defensive side of the game, i.e. non-existent.

 

Santon is a much better defender from what we have seen so far, at least he can defend 1 v 1 and not be so easy to dribble past.

 

Santon's issue is positional sense, but up against a player 1 v 1 he is a lot better.

[jdckelly]

Santon is also a lot younger and such defensive lapses can be expected as part of his development, Debuchy however is 28 and allegedly a full international, he should not be so horrifically bad at defending and has 0 excuses

[pedro111]

It doesn't matter who we sign this window nor if Pardew gets sacked none of it really matters. We know it and the players certainly damn well know it. Nothing is going to change for the better to any real degree until Ashley sells up. We are in this strange situation where the people in charge of the club don't want the best for it. Its fucking ludicrous. As fans we are paying small fortunes to watch a club who's players see no point in trying, a manager who is a complete puppet full of bullshit and bluster, who is just sticking it out for the wages or a crack at a players wife, a DOF a bigger clown the likes of which the game has never seen all of whom are overseen by the owner who is just a complete and utter cunt. It stinks it just completely fucking stinks from top to bottom. Why are the bad times always so much worse for us than any other comparable club? We can talk about this player or that or about Pardew and Kinnear till the cows come home but the fact is until the fat cunt is gone we might aswell save our breath, it's all pointless. The club we love is in a coma.

[TaylorJ_01]

This sounded horrific.

[Guest neesy111]

This sounded horrific.

 

It was.  I felt like I was having a fit for 90 minutes.

[thorin]

Bringing in these players, we should have brought in a manager for them. A rather bad oversight on Ashleys part, mind you, you can't beat a bit of stability.

 

We already have, he's just not been "activated" yet... ah yeah, almost a robot. Joe Kinnear!

 

It also amazes me that Pardew thought that our game (upon Taylors card) "showed" them? LOL... just another comment proving that we need someone knowing what they're doing. That sure as hell ain't Kinnear tho.