The Managerial Merry Go Round™ - Ivan Juric to Southampton

[Kaizero]

That I think he should've gotten more time to turn things around is my personal bias though. I'm not arguing that there weren't reasons to sack him, there clearly were.

[Figures 1-0 Football]

He was setup to fail from day one, media on his back immediately because he wasn't Ryan Giggs which undoubtedly undermind his position with the club, players and fans.

 

[DJ_NUFC]

Is this real life?

 

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/38962906

 

Would a PFM / British manager be called out by the likes of Sutton had he won the premiership season before? It's been 5 defeats in a row. We had loads of those under Pards, and every cunt in the media was busy calling us deluded.

[madras]

Is this real life?

 

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/38962906

 

Would a PFM / British manager be called out by the likes of Sutton had he won the premiership season before? It's been 5 defeats in a row. We had loads of those under Pards, and every c*** in the media was busy calling us deluded.

Don't get your point. Would a british manager be called out after winning the title ? Probably not but the fact that Sutton is and other journos are seems to go against what you're saying. Or am I missing something ?

[BlackandWhite]

Bradley and Moyes (when appointed Man U manager) are classic example of why you don't let bias come into your judgements and especially when you're selecting people for a certain role.

 

We all know Moyes only got the Man United job because Fegie wanted him to succeed him. And we all know that's because his background was very similar to Fergie's. Average player in his day, Scottish, started his way from the bottom up, etc.

 

We all know Bradley got the job because he's American and Swansea are owned by, you guessed it, Americans.

 

Both lead to dire results on the field as we all know.

 

You could possibly suspect the same thing with Pardew being appointed our manager. Sacked by a league one club, but a wanker and dickhead of a cockney very similarly to somebody else we all know. Oh yeah, the dickhead who owns our club.

[DJ_NUFC]

Is this real life?

 

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/38962906

 

Would a PFM / British manager be called out by the likes of Sutton had he won the premiership season before? It's been 5 defeats in a row. We had loads of those under Pards, and every c*** in the media was busy calling us deluded.

Don't get your point. Would a british manager be called out after winning the title ? Probably not but the fact that Sutton is and other journos are seems to go against what you're saying. Or am I missing something ?

 

I was talking about the harsh words from Sutton in the media calling for the sacking of Ranieri. We suffered horrendous seasons under Pards and people called us ... you get my point?

[madras]

Is this real life?

 

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/38962906

 

Would a PFM / British manager be called out by the likes of Sutton had he won the premiership season before? It's been 5 defeats in a row. We had loads of those under Pards, and every c*** in the media was busy calling us deluded.

Don't get your point. Would a british manager be called out after winning the title ? Probably not but the fact that Sutton is and other journos are seems to go against what you're saying. Or am I missing something ?

 

I was talking about the harsh words from Sutton in the media calling for the sacking of Ranieri. We suffered horrendous seasons under Pards and people called us ... you get my point?

Now I do, aye!

[gazza ladra]

What? 

 

 

Did you watch the USA under Bradley? We were fucking dreadful. Sure, the US qualified for the World Cup, but making it out of  CONCACAF is no mean feat. Gifted a place in in the last 16 by England. Beat Algeria, (woo hoo!) Worst US side since Steve Sampson.

 

What did he accomplish with Egypt? Some 2nd division French side? Horrible appointment by Swansea; they were right to run him out ASAP.

[Kaizero]

I give up, fucking guy comes in trying to say Klinsmann's USA was better than Bradley's. There's no reason to the world.

[gazza ladra]

I give up, fucking guy comes in trying to say Klinsmann's USA was better than Bradley's. There's no reason to the world.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_men's_national_soccer_team_managers

 

The football was much, much better under Klinsmann. Bradley's team was dreadful to watch.

[Kaizero]

I give up, fucking guy comes in trying to say Klinsmann's USA was better than Bradley's. There's no reason to the world.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_men's_national_soccer_team_managers

 

The football was much, much better under Klinsmann. Bradley's team was dreadful to watch.

 

I've probably watched 80% of all US matches the past decade or so. However, you are entitled to your opinion, but that is again not the argument here. The argument is that Bob Bradley deserved his shot in the PL on merit due to his 25 years of coaching experience and what he's done with those years. The argument is that if a guy with Bradley's record is a "horrible appointment" before he's been given a shot in the PL - because he's never managed in a "big" league - then how does anyone deserve the chance in a "big" league to get that "big" league experience? Would Ryan Giggs make a better managerial appointment because he's played for Manchester United? That's what most UK pundits were saying, at least. Which is nonsense.

 

People should've looked at his appointment as an interesting one, and discussed his past meris (which are quite good - even if not in any major leagues). Rather the argument was that an American nobody got the gig ahead of Ryan Giggs and he would fail because he was American and called a penalty a "PK". That is what annoys me. Yes, he failed, and there's understanding as to why he was sacked. People did not know that in advance though, his record prior to Swansea was great. It's just a bullshit situation, see Marco Silva for another example. Why didn't Hull try for Ryan Giggs instead? I mean, he played for Manchester United after all. Who does this guy think he is, making teams overperform in sub-standard leagues and then going to another sub-standard league doing well with a weird team whose name we can't pronounce. Who does he think he is?! Clearly has no career that merits a shot at a PL job!!

[gazza ladra]

Kaizero,

 

Did that 80% of US matches you watched include the 0-5 home loss to Mexico in the Gold Cup final?  Just wondering.

 

If Bradley had proved himself in the Ligue 1, Serie A, La Liga,  Bundlesliga, the Championship, I could see it. MLS, Norway, and the French second division don't cut it.

[Groo]

If Bob Bradley had  a northern accent, would he have been sacked?

 

Turns out Fat Shams record with Palace is identical to Bob's time at Swansea.

 

(got this from talksport )

 

Allardyce should be sacked imo.

 

But Bradley was awful. And has zero track record. Sam is a busted flush though.

 

Pure complete and utter bullshit.

 

He literally took a team with zero budget to compete for the title against teams with insane budgets (comperatively). Leaving with a win percentage of 52.78% and the team one match from being relegated the season after he left - just to knock home just what a miracle he did there.

 

45.45% win percentage at Le Havre, on course for promotion when Swansea snapped him up.

 

Made the US a competitive outfit on the world stage - then compare that achievement to what his replacement managed to do (tank the US completely) with a much better pool of players.

 

54.91% career win percentage - all with teams not expected to do well compared to their opposition.

 

Trump level bullshit from TCD. Bradley is one of the better low budget managers in the world. Yet to see him with a big budget so can't judge him on that.

 

 

Sounds like someone's arguing the corner for Rafa's replacement if he's goes to Arsenal   

 

 

Anyone who thinks Bradley is as good as Bradley thinks he is is completely 

[Groo]

Beyond me how anyone can lay into Bradley like. Not sure he came across that well at Swansea but in terms of track record etc. there's just no argument.

 

But Americans call "football" "soccer". He's clearly s***.

 

The hatred for Bradley is based on nothing but Trump-esque logic

 

For Swansea fans the hatred was purely on the fact that he didn't know what he was doing.

 

In reality we didn't hate him, just believed he was offered a job that he should not have been, the previous manager having been shafted by the new American board and their desire for an American manager.

 

Yes he had a decent record in the past but he had never managed at a top level and had never experienced anything at a top level.

 

Swansea's success has always been continuity with manager's, Bob was not from the same die, he had no idea how to use the players there and had no idea how to organise a defence.

[Groo]

Just because he didn't have much managerial experience (plenty of excellent assistant jobs though) and didn't think he'd be the one to motivate them and keep them up. He's been a really good choice for them though and I was wrong to doubt it

 

His preferred playing style fits right in with us, a number of fans have been fighting his corner for a number of years.

[Groo]

He was setup to fail from day one, media on his back immediately because he wasn't Ryan Giggs which undoubtedly undermind his position with the club, players and fans.

 

 

Believe me, no-one in the stands at Swansea wanted Giggs.

 

I should add when Guidolin was unjustifiably sacked, the majority of fans wanted Clement or Rowett.

[Kaizero]

Kaizero,

 

Did that 80% of US matches you watched include the 0-5 home loss to Mexico in the Gold Cup final?  Just wondering.

 

If Bradley had proved himself in the Ligue 1, Serie A, La Liga,  Bundlesliga, the Championship, I could see it. MLS, Norway, and the French second division don't cut it.

 

 

You're just underlining the very argument I'm making that managers need to prove themselves outside the big leagues to get a shot at the big leagues, and that good results in "lesser" leagues is a compliment to their skill - not a stick to beat them with. See my Marco Silva example. If Bradley had proven himself in the big leagues, he'd not need to prove himself outside the big leagues to get a shot at the big leagues. What even is this argument. What. Did you read anything I wrote?

 

And yes, I watched that loss. I also watched Klinsmanns US lose 4-0 to Costa Rica, lose the Gold Cup to Jamaica and an absolute embarrasment of a 2-0 loss against Guatemala.

 

Again, the argument I'm making is not that he didn't fuck up royally at Swansea - he did. And even though it was very early to sack him after eleven games, you could argue it was the right call depending on how Clement does. The argument is that he was well hung by the media and fans before he even had a chance when his track record prior to Swansea was very good - which is what I'm annoyed with. I'm equally annoyed at the way people went on about Marco Silva just recently. Guy has a fucking league title as a manager, yet Ryan Giggs should get the fucking gig instead. Fuck.

[gazza ladra]

Bradley never should have been hired at Swansea.  He didn't deserve a shot at the job because Bradley's track record wasn't anything special. Actually, it was pretty poor and the football was turgid.

 

I read what you wrote and it's absolute nonsense: 1) "Made the US a competitive outfit on the world stage."  No, that was Bruce Arena. 2) "compare that achievement to what his replacement managed to do (tank the US completely) with a much better pool of players."    2) Klinsmann had a better pool of players because he went out and found them instead of relying on a pool of MLS dregs (My God, how long was he going to stick with Carlos Bocanegra? Carlos Bocanegra, team captain. Jesus Fucking Christ.). Klinsmann gave us 2014,  the best year in US soccer history. Out of the Group of Death and into the last 16. 

 

All this bile for JK, you must be a Landycakes man. 

 

I agree about Marco Silva. The criticism was nonsensical. But do you seriously believe that managing the Chicago Fire or MetroStars is comparable to managing Sporting Lisbon or Olympiakos?

 

I agree about Ryan Giggs too.

 

 

 

[joeyt]

Surely if the argument for Bradley is 'he did well in lesser leagues' then there's hundreds of managers that deserve a chance in the Premier League in front of him because there's plenty of better leagues than Ligue 2 and Norwegian division and there will be loads of managers who have done well in those better leagues

[Hanshithispantz]

Not sure why Kaiz fangirls over Bradley like. The stick he got coming in was ridiculous (it wasn't because he was American) but he showed nothing in his short time at Swansea to suggest it was worth persevering with him (or that he was the right choice to begin with). He chose to go to a struggling side in the middle of a season, it's the risk you take. The media did worse to Marco Silva.

[Sho Time]

His team conceded 29 goals in the 11 games he had in charge, he was an absolute sham and he didn't deserve the chance he got based on his performance in lesser leagues - he got it because Swansea's American owners wanted an American manager

 

.

[Hanshithispantz]

I think his record in the lower forrin leagues would be fine if he was in his early 40s. But at nearly 60? I just cannot see what there would be to get excited about.

[The College Dropout]

Tbf to the media - the tune has changed quickly with Marco Silva. Results and football speak for themselves. Nobody wants to be on the wrong side of history.

[Hanshithispantz]

Aye that's what I mean. Silva has so far made the media look like the mugs they are, Bradley 'proved them right'. Any foreign manager coming into the Premiership with an unglamorous record (ie they haven't won anything in Spain, Italy or Germany) is going to be heavily scrutinised by the media, it's just how it is. It's pathetic but in Bradley's sense I can see the hesitation, I would have been pretty miffed as a Swansea fan. On the other side of the coin as a Hull fan I think I would have been excited about Silva, not because of his exotic non-American name but because he's a young manager who's had a lot of success everywhere he's been.

[Deuce]

Bradley wasn't the right appointment for them and they were right to sack him. The sad thing is he'll never get another look in England again, based on 11 matches. While PFMs who are proven to be both cunts and tragically shit managers will continue to ride the carousel.