Guest Howaythetoon Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 If you forget about “THIS IS MAN UTD” OGS has done more than a very good job, but that’s the problem. Either for the club or for the fans to accept that this isn’t the same Man Utd/same thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 You can't see how Man Utd appointing Moyes and Chelsea appointing AVB is different to OGS getting the gig full time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 You can't see how Man Utd appointing Moyes and Chelsea appointing AVB is different to OGS getting the gig full time? Before we continue, I'd love to know if you honestly can't understand why Man Utd fans want OGS and support him and why some would rather have him than Poch at this stage. Because, if that is inconceivable after all this, there's not really a purpose to continuing a discussion. It's obvious, and as an NUFC fan it should be even more obvious given how we worship our legends. That said, every managerial appointment is different. AVB to Chelsea is in fact very comparable to OGS to Man Utd in my opinion, the major difference being how young AVB was at the time - which was unprecedented and gives him extra stature, same goes for Nagelsmann these days. What he's doing is great, but him being 33 makes it ten times more impressive. I'd actually turn your question around and ask why you can't see that OGS to Man Utd is very comparable to many big club managerial appointments, I've so far laid out my case in great detail so please do tell your opinion. As said, I have no issues changing my opinion if given a good reason for why. Again, I'm not arguing Man Utd couldn't do better than OGS or that they shouldn't have aimed "higher". My argument is that them appointing OGS is extremely understandable, somewhat expected, and OGS being supported by Man Utd fans is not at all surprising. Also that the critique being given OGS (bar his horrid league start this season) is unwarranted and rooted in (on here for instance) an inherent dislike of the man. The guy has the third highest win ratio for Man Utd in their history, a higher expectation is essentially expecting OGS to achieve a higher win ratio than Ferguson. If he keeps up the current league form, he'll get sacked no matter what his win ratio is, of course. If Man City is 9th by mid-season then I'd expect Pep to get fired as well, or at least mutually agree to end his contract at the end of the season due to the respect owed him for what he's done there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 AVB had won the Europa League when Chelsea appointed him. I don't really care about the Norwegian league but a quick Google tells me in the few years before Molde won the league it was won by 3 different clubs so hardly a closed shop. I've no doubt he did well there but you've got to see the difference between Chelsea appointing AVB or Man Utd appointing Moyes is different to Man Utd giving OGS the permanent job. Since he's been given the permanent job I think OGS' win percentage is less than 50% Of his first 100 games, United have won 55, drawn 21 and lost 24. That record is nothing to write home about, particularly when you consider that by far their best run of results came before he had been appointed on a full-time basis. He has won 32 of his 65 Premier League matches to date and 22 out of 52 since being appointed permanently. If we are talking about trajectory, it was skyward for those three months as caretaker manager and has been fairly underwhelming for the most part ever since. 22 wins out of 52 since becoming manager of Manchester bloody United is very underwelming Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 If we're talking trajectory we won 9 of our last 14 league games last year and drew the other 5 to finish 3rd. I'm not sure why a bad start means people completely forget about that. No matter how you look at it, Ole took over when the club was sitting in 7th place I believe after getting absolutely hammered by Liverpool. The atmosphere was toxic. There was a lot of deadwood at the club on monster wages. He's slowly righted a lot of the wrongs. Results could be better at the moment, sure, but in his first full season in charge as permanent manager he took us to third place and two semi finals in the major cups we were in. Being realistic, given where the club was, that is a successful season. He now needs in improve on that, but people suggesting we should pull the trigger after 6 games is ludicrous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Woodward did well to get rid of that deadwood, I agree. Although the fans should get some credit for getting rid of Lukaku, who was despised from the off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collage Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 The arguments against him are idiotic and fueled by dislike/emotion rather than objective stats and facts, which I dislike more than I dislike OGS. No. The Man U job is one of the top 3-5 in football. David Moyes shouldn’t have gotten it, he wasn’t qualified. The same goes for Solskjaer. Shearer took over from Joe Kinnear And we knew that was the road we were heading down again. Of course we wanted Shearer to stay. Not comparable. Absolutely comparable. As much as it disgusts me to say it, Joe Kinnear was on paper much more qualified than Alan Shearer to manage Newcastle United if you look at their managerial history and not their attachment to any one club. Shearer wasn't even a manager at the time, what would your opinion be if Gary Lineker was the one appointed and not Shearer? Would you have wanted Lineker to get the job, or stay? Jaime Redknapp? Pochettino is essentially just as qualified on paper for the Man Utd job as Moyes was. It's a bit of a double standard if you say Moyes shouldn't have gotten the job, yet you think Pochettino should get it when you look at their managerial history up until the point Moyes took over Man Utd, or Pochettino now if he took over tomorrow. Neither have major honors, and their biggest achievements have been building a club that didn't compete much into a team that could compete. The Barcelona job is perhaps the biggest job in football, that went to a reserve team manager. In the end, the manager needs to be a proper fit for a club. Look, if you think Mourinho to OGS and Kinnear to Shearer is a good comparison, there’s nothing more I can say really. It’s just ridiculous. I’d take Lineker or Redknapp over Kinnear, yes. I’d take pretty much anybody over him. How is this relevant? I haven’t mentioned Pochettino. You're (I assume) intentionally misinterpreting my comparisons. Zidane following Benitez then? Why is that different to OGS following Mourinho? We as NUFC fans inherently dislike OGS due to his horrid behavior against us. We don't have that dislike for Zidane, for instance. It's not over Kinnear, it's how you'd react if they were appointed following Kinnear (and not Shearer). You'd naturally would have wanted us to appoint a manager with experience, not a pundit. Yet, due to us loving Shearer, we welcomed him as a savior, when he did not even have any coaching badges and supported him - yet say OGS shouldn't be at Man Utd when he's more qualified for the Man Utd job than Shearer was for the NUFC job. We'd be absolutely livid if they'd appointed Lineker or Jaime Redknapp, yet om paper they're just as qualified as Shearer with their main jobs since they retired being pundits. I brought up Pochettino to make a new point and comparison to back my original point in our discussion. I don’t think Zidane was qualified for the Real job although I can understand why he got it at the time, and of course it worked. The job at hand at Man U is a whole different matter. In my opinion they need a meticulous manager who can make the sum bigger than its parts, given the material. OGS is probably a good man manager but there’s no clear structure, it’s a bit hit and miss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Woodward did well to get rid of that deadwood, I agree. Although the fans should get some credit for getting rid of Lukaku, who was despised from the off. That just isn't true. There's no ill feeling towards Lukaku even now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 To be honest I'm definitely enjoying Man U fans transition from super arrogant to applauding and accepting mediocrity Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Not to be one of those, but what on Earth are WBA expecting? Nowhere near the pulling power that the other promoted clubs have never mind the Premier League. Wonder if this will be Big Sam’s route back into management. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 To be honest I'm definitely enjoying Man U fans transition from super arrogant to applauding and accepting mediocrity If third place is mediocrity then I'd love to know what the likes of 13th is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocker Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 To be honest I'm definitely enjoying Man U fans transition from super arrogant to applauding and accepting mediocrity If third place is mediocrity then I'd love to know what the likes of 13th is. Shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 To be honest I'm definitely enjoying Man U fans transition from super arrogant to applauding and accepting mediocrity If third place is mediocrity then I'd love to know what the likes of 13th is. You realise you can't hurt us by pointing out how shit we are, right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 I wasn't trying to hurt you. 13th is mediocrity. 18th is shit. 3rd is very good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Not if you're Manchester United Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 I wasn't trying to hurt you. 13th is mediocrity. 18th is shit. 3rd is very good 18th in the premiership would be fantastic for Plymouth. 3rd this season would be shit for Liverpool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 This is why I have a bit of a gripe when people say we were harsh on the Sir Bobby 5th placed season. The manager & squad should have finished 4th and comfortably rather than spending most of the season battling with Villa & Charlton before just sneaking 5th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Yeah, I agree I think SBR had run his course here, but it was who we replaced him with. Make a good appointment there and things are a lot different. Massively different. That's what Liverpool did with Houllier and getting Rafa in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJ Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 I guess finishing rock bottom of the ‘big six’ then making the heady heights of 3rd is tremendous progress for the ‘biggest club in the world’. Liverpool and City must be terrified. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Finishing 3rd is pretty good if it gives you a platform to improve the following season, after all Klopp's time at Liverpool has basically been about steady progress each season. The issue is they seem to be going backwards rather than improving though it is still early and a strange season anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Finishing 3rd is pretty good if it gives you a platform to improve the following season, after all Klopp's time at Liverpool has basically been about steady progress each season. The issue is they seem to be going backwards rather than improving though it is still early and a strange season anyway Yeah but with Klopp you could really see what he was trying to do with them, that is not happening with OGS, at all It is very clear what Ole is trying to achieve, he just hasn't been as successful as Klopp, but we're only 6 games in. Edwards recruitment was brilliant year on year with Klopp. Woodward's wasn't. You cannot hound out a manager after 6 games after he has taken a team from 7th to 3rd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 In fact I'm actually wrong. Ole has been as successful as Klopp. Klopp took Liverpool 8th to 4th to 4th. Let's see what Ole does this season before comparing the two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Presume we can't compare them until Old Trafford is full again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxst Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/12121916/ole-gunnar-solskjaers-100-games-at-man-utd-success-or-failure-pitch-to-post-podcast-analysis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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