The Managerial Merry Go Round™

[astraguy]

Oh Christ ?? saying that why wouldn't u take Bruce if ole got the sack? More experience in the pl and a man u legend like ole

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by astraguy
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[Ben]

2 minutes ago, Froggy said:

How does saying you are a terrible poster make me upset? 

The forum must be full of children, or at least one, as I'm trying to make this as basic as I can and it is still not being understood. I don't know why you think there's no judgement on him. If he finished 5th he would have been sacked. If we went out of all the cups early, he would have been sacked. The expectation has increased each season. 

You are also being hypocritical in your argument. You are saying I can't use 6/7 years ago to justify Ole's position now. Yet you are using our success from years gone by as a reason why he's not good enough, as Man United should be winning trophies.

While this is a results based business, there is also much more to a manager. Why do you love Benitez? You were relegated under him? Steve Bruce just matched Benitez's highest ever points tally in the PL as well. So tell me, why Benitez over Bruce?

You make a fair point over reasons to keep Ole, but you can't seriously ask why Rafa over Bruce.

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, astraguy said:

Oh Christ ??

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, Ben said:

You make a fair point over reasons to keep Ole, but you can't seriously ask why Rafa over Bruce.

Oh no I'm absolutely not of the mindset that they are in any way comparable. I'm just saying there's so much more to a manager than pure results. It was a response to the implication that since Mourinho finished second and LVG won the FA Cup they must be better than Solskjaer and he's wrong for the club because he hasn't delivered a trophy after two seasons.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Froggy

[Fantail Breeze]

Just now, Froggy said:

How does saying you are a terrible poster make me upset? 

The forum must be full of children, or at least one, as I'm trying to make this as basic as I can and it is still not being understood. I don't know why you think there's no judgement on him. If he finished 5th he would have been sacked. If we went out of all the cups early, he would have been sacked. 

You are also being hypocritical in your argument. You are saying I can't use 6/7 years ago to justify Ole's position now. Yet you are using our success from years gone by as a reason why he's not good enough, as Man United should be winning trophies.

While this is a results based business, there is also much more to a manager. Why do you love Benitez? You were relegated under him? Steve Bruce just matched Benitez's highest ever points tally in the PL as well. So tell me, why Benitez over Bruce?

“We were relegated under Benitez”  You’ve just shown yourself up to being a bit of a tit.

I’m not judging OGS on his performance in 10 games after taking over. I’m judging him on the full seasons he’s had where he’s achieved nothing, other than top four qualification. Wenger was ridiculed for that, despite having a CV extensively stronger than OGS’s.

Man Utd should be winning trophies because of their incredible resources. Spending £200m in 2019/20 and ending up with nothing but the top four. Mental.  Poor OGS, how can we ever judge him? He’s only had an open chequebook and can’t even beat the 7th best team in Spain in a European cup final.

[Fantail Breeze]

6 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Oh no I'm absolutely not of the mindset that they are in any way comparable. I'm just saying there's so much more to a manager than pure results. It was a response to the implication that since Mourinho finished second and LVG won the FA Cup they must be better than Solskjaer and he's wrong for the club because he hasn't delivered a trophy after two seasons.

No. Mourinho and LVG are far better than OGS based on their fantastic careers of winning things - which they also both managed at Man Utd.

Don’t make things up to keep trying to justify your own poor ambitions.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Fantail Breeze

[astraguy]

If ole got sacked now,name me a top side that would go for him ? I 

[TRon]

2 hours ago, Froggy said:

It's very basic to understand. We were happy with Ole finishing third and qualifying for the CL, because we had been as low as 6th and 7th in previous seasons. We are happy going from 3rd to 2nd, and going from getting to semi finals to a final. Next season we will want finals turned into silverware, and 2nd to turn into a title challenge. Nothing happens overnight, and all you can ask for is progression. If you can't see the progression you are blind.

"We've never looked further away from the title." - Eh? We finished 12 points behind. We were 33 points behind last year.

Also, my stats about goals up above were in direct response to being called a boring team.

 

I appreciate you are closer to the action than we are, but while the football has been much better than under Mourinho, it does seem like the main difference has been the impact of players like Fernandes and Cavani. Without them, not sure the results would look quite so good.

I just get the feeling that while Ole will earn goodwill in allowing Man U to express themselves and let players do their thing, ultimately he's not going to win significant silverware. Not sure he'll have the sort of personality to instill the discipline required to forge champions.

[mrmojorisin75]

7 minutes ago, TRon said:

I appreciate you are closer to the action than we are, but while the football has been much better than under Mourinho, it does seem like the main difference has been the impact of players like Fernandes and Cavani. Without them, not sure the results would look quite so good.

I just get the feeling that while Ole will earn goodwill in allowing Man U to express themselves and let players do their thing, ultimately he's not going to win significant silverware. Not sure he'll have the sort of personality to instill the discipline required to forge champions.

I don't think there's any contradiction here with what Froggy is saying like, and while the above is true has to be balanced with the knowledge he's having to utilise a fair degree of shite that's simply not good enough so 2nd has to be seen as progress and an achievement under those circumstances imo.

[Ben]

1 hour ago, astraguy said:

If ole got sacked now,name me a top side that would go for him ? I 

Sunderland County fc ?

[TRon]

1 hour ago, mrmojorisin75 said:

I don't think there's any contradiction here with what Froggy is saying like, and while the above is true has to be balanced with the knowledge he's having to utilise a fair degree of shite that's simply not good enough so 2nd has to be seen as progress and an achievement under those circumstances imo.

Yep, I can agree there's been progress, just don't think he's going to be the type to build a trophy winning team. That final step is sometimes what separates the top managers from the rest.

[mrmojorisin75]

8 minutes ago, TRon said:

Yep, I can agree there's been progress, just don't think he's going to be the type to build a trophy winning team. That final step is sometimes what separates the top managers from the rest.

I agree, I just don't see it myself either.

[mofo]

@Froggy Do you think the majority of Mun U fans want Solskjaer out? All my mates who support Manu U are happy with what he is doing (trying to do....)

[Guest dazzanufc1892]

The Ole job is an interesting one. As somebody (I probably shouldn't admit this) who goes to a number of united games each year he has exceeded expectations year after year, but the fact he has no previous makes him a tricky proposition. He came in and steadied the ship which was hugely important. He also understand the club and its heritage and has gone to pretty big lengths to try and bring this back.

Under Ole the clubs feel has returned which was the most monumental job of them all. He has also seen the club revert to its typical signings and not going all out for stars who were never "United Players" nor signings, e.g. Neymar, Ramos, Muller.

He has overseen probably the most successful period of recruitment since AF left. He has also managed to play a united style of football with players who probably shouldn't be able to play it, most notably Fred. He also has seen the club finish higher each season in the league. When he came in this was pretty much what every wanted to see and feel. Considering how the club was and how it is now, he deserves one more year, despite the horrendous failings on Wednesday night in relation to subs and also the handling of Van De Beek. The league progression has been impressive but hes now put himself in the firing line by finishing second and reaching a final as the only progression left in those is to win the league a European trophy. Got to remember how he has out-thought pep amongst others in the last couple of years too. Another thing is a number of managers achieve success without winning in the first few years as they've built a base that has shown progression and has been invested upon. To get 3 years in with consistent growth and back out would be a calamity.

NUFC were the prime example of this. Sir Bob never won anything but our growth year on year under him was staggering. The season we stopped backing the growth with only the free signing of Bowyer was our undoing. MUFC have momentum of sorts under Ole and the league positions and results in a number of games show it.

If we had seen NUFC steadily rise under Bruce and start playing the kind of football we were used to under Sir Bob or Keegan, albeit in flashes, I think we would also be wrong to want rid, alas, we haven't. MUFC aren't MUFC of '95 - '12. Those internal beliefs were ripped our by Moyes, sold by van gaal (see Evans, fletcher and welbeck) and replaced by petulance with Jose. The biggest thing Ole has done is rebuild them slowly, the fruits of that wont be seen for a few years yet.

[astraguy]

38 minutes ago, Ben said:

Sunderland County fc ?

I did think of Sunderland they love taking from man u

[nbthree3]

 

[Dr.Spaceman]

Poor Celtic 

[HaydnNUFC]

Allegri back at Juventus. 

[CalmintheChaos]

Who does Howe think he is  spent a fortune to relegate Bournemouth! Celtic is as good as he can expect, probably better than he could hope for to be honest.

[Fantail Breeze]

[gdm]

11 minutes ago, CalmintheChaos said:

Who does Howe think he is  spent a fortune to relegate Bournemouth! Celtic is as good as he can expect, probably better than he could hope for to be honest.

They are miles behind rangers already. Massive rebuilding job half the players want to leave. We don’t know why he rejected it knowing Celtic he’s probably been given a £2m transfer budget.

he was obviously keen on the job or he wouldn’t have been talking for so long 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by gdm

[gdm]

 

[mrmojorisin75]

imagine having free reign in a domestic league for a decade and leaving yourself fucked like that at the end of it

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, CalmintheChaos said:

Who does Howe think he is  spent a fortune to relegate Bournemouth! Celtic is as good as he can expect, probably better than he could hope for to be honest.

Mad take given where he got them from, what he had to do to the squad to give them a sniff of staying up, then kept them year for longer than they’d have expected while playing nice football.

[Wullie]

To take a club that had spent essentially its entire existence in the 3rd and 4th tiers of English football from bottom of the 4th tier on -17 points to established Premier League safety for several seasons, in the space of about six years, is one of English football's greatest ever achievements. 

And then because that tiny club then got relegated again eventually, the manager becomes a laughing stock to some people.

Really gets my goat, and shows how in thrall some people are to the "Premier League/Sky/Big 6 etc" narrative that they claim to hate. Basically unless you're one of the world's best managers, in charge of a club with the resources to win everything all the time, you're shit.