MrRaspberryJam Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, rgk_lfc said: When you are evaluating Bielsa, you do need to look beyond the results. Yes, I wouldn't want him at LFC or would not recommend him to any top club, but that does not mean his contributions to football can be washed aside. Guardiola considers him to the most important manager in world football. "He is probably the person I admire the most in world football - as a manager and as a person," said Guardiola. "He is the most authentic manager in terms of how he conducts his teams. He is unique. Pochettino, Klopp - all rave about him. There is a big group of managers plying their trade in South, Central, and North America who considers him to be their most important person in terms of football development - Gallardo, Martino, Sampaoli. An entire generation of Argentinian footballers - Ayala, Simeone, Mascherano - all consider him to very influential in their football development. Yes, he has not been successful if you consider trophies and league positions in Europe. He does have some very serious flaws which come up again and again. But there definitely is something about his core philosophy, the way he encourages people to express themselves on the field which has inspired so many great and influential managers. It feels like more than often he is able to create something brilliant but flawed which can be improved by adding some pragmatism to achieve great success. Like for example, Chile's Copa America triumph , a big part of the success was attributed to the foundations laid down by Bielsa. Sampaoli, another Bielsa disciple, continued along the same lines but mixed the high press with defensive resoluteness and they had great success. Not trying to downplay Sampaoli or overplay Bielsa, but he does always leave something positive behind. What are you having for tea? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, The Bonk said: Is that not what Howe has done? or are you saying his philosophies are too "Bielsa" for other managers to shift to their's? If Marsch can add some defensive prowess the last 12 games there's more than enough quality in their squad to stay up. Basically the latter, it will take time for any manager and indeed the players to transition their game and style away from Bielsa’s methods on and off the pitch. And without Bamford and Phillips they are weakened massively, even if they still have quality elsewhere, which outside of Raphina in particular they don’t. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 7 minutes ago, rgk_lfc said: When you are evaluating Bielsa, you do need to look beyond the results. Yes, I wouldn't want him at LFC or would not recommend him to any top club, but that does not mean his contributions to football can be washed aside. Guardiola considers him to the most important manager in world football. "He is probably the person I admire the most in world football - as a manager and as a person," said Guardiola. "He is the most authentic manager in terms of how he conducts his teams. He is unique. Pochettino, Klopp - all rave about him. There is a big group of managers plying their trade in South, Central, and North America who considers him to be their most important person in terms of football development - Gallardo, Martino, Sampaoli. An entire generation of Argentinian footballers - Ayala, Simeone, Mascherano - all consider him to very influential in their football development. Yes, he has not been successful if you consider trophies and league positions in Europe. He does have some very serious flaws which come up again and again. But there definitely is something about his core philosophy, the way he encourages people to express themselves on the field which has inspired so many great and influential managers. It feels like more than often he is able to create something brilliant but flawed which can be improved by adding some pragmatism to achieve great success. Like for example, Chile's Copa America triumph , a big part of the success was attributed to the foundations laid down by Bielsa. Sampaoli, another Bielsa disciple, continued along the same lines but mixed the high press with defensive resoluteness and they had great success. Not trying to downplay Sampaoli or overplay Bielsa, but he does always leave something positive behind. He’s basically a great coach, one of the best in the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 4 hours ago, Froggy said: Yes. To say he's doing a terrible job is absolutely batshit mental and quite frankly hilarious. We've been incredibly unlucky in many of the draws as well. The way we're playing is night and day compared to the first half of the season. FWIW only City have won more points than us since Rangnick took over. Terrible job indeed. That's what i was getting at, he's done a fair job considering the mess they're in. That mess not actually the performances on the pitch, something isn't right in the club obviously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 I have a few friends who support Leeds btw, and they are gutted in the same sense I was both times when KK left. They recognise his flaws, his faults and that he would probably take them down this season if he stayed on, but they also claim he revolutionised their club on and off the field and as a coach, is up there with Don Revie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Not giving the Mirror the satisfaction of clicks - or the person their story is about the satisfaction of naming him - but he (a certain former Sky presenter now working in the MENA region) thinks Leeds need to appoint Allardyce, not Marsch. Fucking sigh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 They needed to really. Burnley are galvanised, We're much better now, and Brentford have Eriksen coming in. They need some change to avoid being the one left behind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bonk Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 35 minutes ago, HTT II said: Basically the latter, it will take time for any manager and indeed the players to transition their game and style away from Bielsa’s methods on and off the pitch. And without Bamford and Phillips they are weakened massively, even if they still have quality elsewhere, which outside of Raphina in particular they don’t. Thought so. It took Howe, what, 4-5 games for his approach to integrate and had the January window to add players in support. It was obviously a now or never for Leeds and Bielsa, going to be tight for them, but I think they're better than Brentford based off what we saw yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 3 hours ago, TRon said: I thought very highly of Ole as a club legend as well. As a player. We are talking about managers here. You thought highly of Ole as a manager yet are slating Bielsa as a manager. Again, why would anyone take your opinion seriously given your lack of reason when it came to judging Ole as a manager? Did I think highly of Ole as a manager? I defended him when he deserved to be defended and criticised him when he deserved to be criticised. I thought his time was up before the board sacked him. He still has the third highest win percentage of any manager in our history but ultimately the lack of trophies killed him. The major difference for me and the main point I'm trying to address is that everyone seems to defend Bielsa despite him having an absolutely atrocious season. The main defence being how he brought them up from the Championship so he has done a good job. Ole led us to a second place finish, so why the absolutely massive negative attitude towards him? He did not deserve the disrespect he got from opposition fans, but at the end of the day he wasn't good enough for Manchester United. I'll admit it's hard to think with a clear head when it comes to judging your own manager, especially when it's a club legend. Doesn't mean I don't or can't have opinions on managers of other teams. I've thought for a long time Bielsa is overrated. Not bad, just not a great coach like the media paints him because of how he sits on a cooler during a game or because he has unusual methods. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 22 minutes ago, The Bonk said: Thought so. It took Howe, what, 4-5 games for his approach to integrate and had the January window to add players in support. It was obviously a now or never for Leeds and Bielsa, going to be tight for them, but I think they're better than Brentford based off what we saw yesterday. If Howe was South American, sat on a case of beer during a game and sent spies to Sunderland he'd be lauded as some mad world class coach. Howe has been a much better manager in English football than Bielsa. Could be wrong but would wager he's spent a lot less as well if we exclude the Saudi splurge in January. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRaspberryJam Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 48 minutes ago, xLiaaamx said: They needed to really. Burnley are galvanised, We're much better now, and Brentford have Eriksen coming in. They need some change to avoid being the one left behind. Brentford are toilet. Doubt that signing will change anything. If they survive, I imagine they'll limp over the line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 4 hours ago, joeyt said: What's the point in comparing him to previous Leeds managers? He had decent players last season, does he not get credit for that? Where were Phillips and Bamford before Bielsa turned them into England internationals? Yeah... no point. He didn't work with same players and probably had different resources than previous managers. Plus his unique style obviously make it harder to compare him with other managers. Again, so what if he had a decent season last season? Yes he deserves credit for it, but he is still an overrated manager in terms that the hype around him is not materialising to anything memorable. His honours list comes no where near to someone like Unai Emery's achievements, for example. Why? Hype and halo effect. He's probably better off just being a coach rather than a manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 One of the most influential managers of recent times would have been better off just being a coach Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiago Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 I think Bielsa was dealt a shit hand this season. He was only able to sign two players of note, and he's rarely had the spine of the team fit. His ability to elevate some of the players in that squad is impressive, but as others have alluded to he's a tough act to follow. The Leeds system means that if you can identify one or two matchups in the final third you can win chances are you'll trouble them. That's why Spurs went wide and Kane just floated deep. The next manager could approach things with a more pragmatic slant, but I'm not convinced there is an obvious style for that group to play. Raphinha is clearly very good but I'm not sold on Rodrigo and after that it's hard to see who can be a difference maker while Bamford and Phillips are out. It starts to feel like us under Bruce where the plan is just get the ball to Saint-Maximin. I'd be very surprised if they stay up, and if they do, I think they're going to need a heavy investment especially in midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) “He’s one of the most important managers that England has had in the last 100 years", not enough in the world. Edited for not reading post's right. Thought you were on about Bruce. Edited February 27, 2022 by Doc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 13 minutes ago, joeyt said: One of the most influential managers of recent times would have been better off just being a coach He's influential due to his coaching methods and style - not managerial record! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, Dinho lad said: He's influential due to his coaching methods and style - not managerial record! I don't think any Leeds fans would complain about his managerial record before the last few weeks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, joeyt said: I don't think any Leeds fans would complain about his managerial record before the last few weeks What's your point? I'm not saying he has awful record - I'm just saying he's not as good as you and other people make him out to be. You clearly don't know much about his career. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dinho lad said: You clearly don't know much about his career. Get out of here with shite like this. @joeytknows plenty about his career Edited February 27, 2022 by neesy111 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, neesy111 said: Get out of here with shite like this. @joeytknows plenty about his career He's got it all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 55 minutes ago, Dinho lad said: What's your point? I'm not saying he has awful record - I'm just saying he's not as good as you and other people make him out to be. You clearly don't know much about his career. He did an excellent job at Leeds Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 (edited) A good half-done job. Edited February 27, 2022 by Dinho lad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yassassin Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 No matter who the replacement for Bielsa might be, the players will have to ‘divorce’ themselves from his especially eclectic techniques and make do with more mundane methods. They won’t find this an easy adjustment imo; I think they’ll go down whereas I think Bielsa had the possibility (slim) of turning it around when important players return Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 Good luck to this Marsch fella coming in btw, he sounds like a decent appointment, but I still think Bielsa will be remembered long after this shitty ownership have sold up. That spygate story when he trolled Frank Lampard still makes me smile to this day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Dinho lad said: A good half-done job. What more should he have achieved to make it a full done job? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now