The Managerial Merry Go Round™

[Kaizero]

2nd in the champions league is pretty impressive for a team like Spurs

 

Although if you ask me i'd rather have a manager who got Cardiff relegated

 

Fergie couldn't have saved Cardiff. An awful argument from desperate people.

 

Spurs had an excellent team. They probably had 6/7 players that would have walked into our side. Kane, Son, Eriksen, Alderweireld, Vertonghen etc. "A team like Spurs" indeed.

 

This is three pages ago, and I know it's not at all remotely comparable, but OGS turned Molde from shit into the best team in Norway. It would be like someone coming to Hearts and turning them into the new Celtic in no time, watched them go to shit when he left, then turned them back good when he returned. Definitive playing style, great buys to bring the club forward and so on.

 

Could that be replicated at the bigger stage? Obviously harder to do and there's more competitive clubs to challenge other than that one dominant force, but it's still a bit shitty to say OGS has achieved nothing - even if the league isn't a top tier league. IMO it's as mentioned comparable to toppling Celtics dominance in the SPL and establishing your team as that dominant force with a lesser team and budget than Celtic.

 

FWIW, I really, really, dislike Molde. I am happy OGS is gone. And I believe what Knutsen is doing currently with Bodø/Glimt in our league with no money and focusing on local talent, running amok in the league two years running and almost going undefeated this year and outplaying AC Milan at the San Siro (even if they sadly lost) is perhaps the biggest managerial performance in our league in its existence. OGS is shit compared to that.

[joeyt]

It's Bob Bradley all over again

[Froggy]

Starting eleven in their last game cost £410m, and included three academy graduates. But no, Ole hasn't been backed in the transfer market

 

I'm not quite sure how that's relevant at all. We were already committed to buying Maguire and Wan-Bissaka before Ole had any say. The only signing on the pitch that was Ole's was Fernandes.

 

You're acting like Ole spent £410m. He didn't.

 

You're forgetting that the lack of crowds is 'huge' for them

 

It's big for everyone but we have the second highest average attendance in Europe. To suggest it's not a factor is borderline retarded.

Ole became manager in December '18, Maguire signed for you in fucking August of 2019

 

Would help if you read the post. Maguire was a target under Jose never mind Ole. We were always signing him.

 

He's a fucking yoke anyway.

But you're clearly full of shit. He wasn't "lined up" at all, you had to haggle with Leicester all bloody summer to finally strike a deal for him, and there were several other teams reportedly in for him. You make it sound like he had already signed by the time Ole came in, which is absolutely not the case at all.

Thinking about it though, I genuinely don't know what's worse, if Ole wanted him or not

 

We wanted Maguire the summer previous. Leicester wanted £50m and we didn't want to pay. He was a target for Jose and Woodward. He was not a target identified by Ole. I don't know why you're claiming it was an Ole signing. It wasn't.

 

It is you who is full of shit my friend. I know the transfers of my club better than you do.

 

So you waited a year and paid another 30m on top of the 50m they wanted? Wtf? Lol!!

 

Exactly. A shambles.

[Froggy]

I think Man U have at least a top 4 squad, the manager has not got the best out of them, Poch or Bielsa would have them challenging.

 

You say we've a top four squad. Ole got us third. Poch had 5 years at Spurs and got them second. Bielsa would be interesting

[Kaizero]

It's Bob Bradley all over again

 

It's an objective fact that he did extremely well in Norway, sadly he couldn't replicate that elsewhere. I am stating exactly that point as well, as even though OGS did well here it does in no way equate he has to do well in a bigger league, just that it's a shit argument to say he's done nothing in the past. He'd done more than Pep when Pep got the Barca gig, for instance. I don't necessarily think he's done enough at all to warrant getting the Man Utd gig bar being a former player. But when Shearer was here, people wanted Shearer to stay on, and all Shearer had done at that stage was being a pundit - so I'm just annoyed at our own double standards when it's obvious why Man Utd fans want OGS to stay and it's fair-ish that he got the chance at the job.

 

I'm in no way saying he's a great manager for Man Utd (or for anyone else other than Molde) or the right answer for them, just that I understand why he has the job and that I understand why Man Utd fans aren't up in arms as he's done a lot to change the entire toxic atmosphere at the club. I fully understand why a Man Utd fan at this stage would prefer to stick with OGS rather than switch to Poch, even though I personally would choose Poch.

[Kaizero]

I think Man U have at least a top 4 squad, the manager has not got the best out of them, Poch or Bielsa would have them challenging.

 

You say we've a top four squad. Ole got us third. Poch had 5 years at Spurs and got them second. Bielsa would be interesting

 

Bielsa is god.

[Nobody]

And poor Ole didn't have a say in it as well, despite having been in the position for 9 months

[Froggy]

And poor Ole didn't have a say in it as well, despite having been in the position for 9 months

 

You really have zero clue about our club.

[Froggy]

It's Bob Bradley all over again

 

It's an objective fact that he did extremely well in Norway, sadly he couldn't replicate that elsewhere. I am stating exactly that point as well, as even though OGS did well here it does in no way equate he has to do well in a bigger league, just that it's a shit argument to say he's done nothing in the past. He'd done more than Pep when Pep got the Barca gig, for instance. I don't necessarily think he's done enough at all to warrant getting the Man Utd gig bar being a former player. But when Shearer was here, people wanted Shearer to stay on, and all Shearer had done at that stage was being a pundit - so I'm just annoyed at our own double standards when it's obvious why Man Utd fans want OGS to stay and it's fair-ish that he got the chance at the job.

 

I'm in no way saying he's a great manager for Man Utd (or for anyone else other than Molde) or the right answer for them, just that I understand why he has the job and that I understand why Man Utd fans aren't up in arms as he's done a lot to change the entire toxic atmosphere at the club. I fully understand why a Man Utd fan at this stage would prefer to stick with OGS rather than switch to Poch, even though I personally would choose Poch.

 

This is a fantastic post.

[Ben]

But did he not do the steadying of the ship as a caretaker? The board should have made the change to an elite manager to move them forward and not pick a bloke on sentiment and because Rio Ferdinand waved a contract about on BT sport, the football world is full of failed caretaker managers.

[Kaizero]

But did he not do the steadying of the ship as a caretaker? The board should have made the change to an elite manager to move them forward and not pick a bloke on sentiment and because Rio Ferdinand waved a contract about on BT sport, the football world is full of failed caretaker managers.

 

Again, it's a flawed argument as Pep Guardiola only had a promotion to his name when he was appointed Barcelona manager. Klopp got the Mainz gig after playing for them for 11 years. Pochettino got the Espanyol gig without the UEFA coaching license after having been the manager of their women's side. You have to start somewhere, and OGS actually had honors to his name - albeit in a lesser league, so what makes his appointment more shocking than those, for instance?

[joeyt]

Because OGS failed miserably at Cardiff?

[Kaizero]

Because OGS failed miserably at Cardiff?

 

And went on to do good things again at Molde, and let's not forget he started his managerial career with a great spell as Man Utd Reserves coach - where key players such as underperforming Pogba loved playing for him. Sir Bobby was sacked from Fulham with a 16.67% win rate. Where's the rule saying you can't get another chance because you failed one time during a completely different set of circumstances? OGS has the third highest win percentage in Man Utd history, nothing about him failing miserably at Cardiff changes that fact. The arguments against him are idiotic and fueled by dislike/emotion rather than objective stats and facts, which I dislike more than I dislike OGS.

[Ben]

Because OGS failed miserably at Cardiff?

 

And went on to do good things again at Molde, and let's not forget he started his managerial career with a great spell as Man Utd Reserves coach - where key players such as underperforming Pogba loved playing for him. Sir Bobby was sacked from Fulham with a 16.67% win rate. Where's the rule saying you can't get another chance because you failed one time during a completely different set of circumstances? OGS has the third highest win percentage in Man Utd history, nothing about him failing miserably at Cardiff changes that fact. The arguments against him are idiotic and fueled by dislike/emotion rather than objective stats and facts, which I dislike more than I dislike OGS.

 

I don't necessarily think the arguments against him are idiotic, however you make your point very well.

[joeyt]

I'm probably not factoring in the huge effect of no crowds at Old Trafford

[Collage]

The arguments against him are idiotic and fueled by dislike/emotion rather than objective stats and facts, which I dislike more than I dislike OGS.

 

No. The Man U job is one of the top 3-5 in football. David Moyes shouldn’t have gotten it, he wasn’t qualified. The same goes for Solskjaer.

 

Shearer took over from Joe Kinnear And we knew that was the road we were heading down again. Of course we wanted Shearer to stay. Not comparable.

[Kaizero]

How are the arguments made purely on emotion? Because you don’t agree? That’s nonsense. Same as comparing him to SBR. Just because people think he’s not very good doesn’t mean it’s because they are purely acting out of emotion lol

 

Third highest win rate in Man Utd managerial history = not very good

Changing the toxic nature at Man Utd (as told by fans and players) = not very good

Having toppled an essentially changed the nature of a one-team league with much lesser budgets = no experience and no playing style

 

He's started badly in the league this season, so none of the above matters. Not sayin he hasn't started badly in the league this season, he has, but he still has the third highest win ratio of any Man Utd manager in their history and has had them on some of their best winning streaks in their history. He clearly works much on his tactics and aren't working on "throwing eleven players on the pitch hoping their quality make the team win". He's failed at tactics many times, but he's doing different things to counter the opponents. Over the course of one week he played three different tactics and won three matches, two against opponents perceived to be better than them at this stage in time.

 

The SBR comparison was due to joeyt saying he shouldn't get a shot at Man Utd because he failed at Cardiff. That equivalence means SBR shouldn't have gotten another chance at a club because he failed at Fulham.

 

Other arguments are saying he shouldn't have been given the job, and then using examples of managers that should be better fits for Man Utd when said examples started their own careers with less top level managerial experience than OGS.

 

It's just dumb arguments when you look at objective facts, just look at joeyts rebuttal of my arguments by jumping on a stupid thing Froggy said rather than the actual arguments. Hence why I believe they're emotional opinions. I'm not saying they 100% are, but I legit dislike OGS, I support Rosenborg in Norway and I would love for OGS to fail. But as I said, I dislike stupid arguments more than any one person. Discussing OGS at Man Utd with anyone that doesn't follow Man Utd is like discussing the downsides of Donald Trump with someone that only watches Fox News, they've made up their mind and no objective fact can alter that even when it counters their own arguments.

 

I'm fully open to being proven wrong, in fact, I'd welcome it. It would be a much better feeling looking at OGS and seeing failure than what I am currently seeing. I don't even need much convincing, as I've tried myself already.

[Kaizero]

The arguments against him are idiotic and fueled by dislike/emotion rather than objective stats and facts, which I dislike more than I dislike OGS.

 

No. The Man U job is one of the top 3-5 in football. David Moyes shouldn’t have gotten it, he wasn’t qualified. The same goes for Solskjaer.

 

Shearer took over from Joe Kinnear And we knew that was the road we were heading down again. Of course we wanted Shearer to stay. Not comparable.

 

Absolutely comparable. As much as it disgusts me to say it, Joe Kinnear was on paper much more qualified than Alan Shearer to manage Newcastle United if you look at their managerial history and not their attachment to any one club. Shearer wasn't even a manager at the time, what would your opinion be if Gary Lineker was the one appointed and not Shearer? Would you have wanted Lineker to get the job, or stay? Jaime Redknapp?

 

Pochettino is essentially just as qualified on paper for the Man Utd job as Moyes was. It's a bit of a double standard if you say Moyes shouldn't have gotten the job, yet you think Pochettino should get it when you look at their managerial history up until the point Moyes took over Man Utd, or Pochettino now if he took over tomorrow. Neither have major honors, and their biggest achievements have been building a club that didn't compete much into a team that could compete.

 

The Barcelona job is perhaps the biggest job in football, that went to a reserve team manager.

 

In the end, the manager needs to be a proper fit for a club.

[Collage]

The arguments against him are idiotic and fueled by dislike/emotion rather than objective stats and facts, which I dislike more than I dislike OGS.

 

No. The Man U job is one of the top 3-5 in football. David Moyes shouldn’t have gotten it, he wasn’t qualified. The same goes for Solskjaer.

 

Shearer took over from Joe Kinnear And we knew that was the road we were heading down again. Of course we wanted Shearer to stay. Not comparable.

 

Absolutely comparable. Joe Kinnear was on paper much more qualified than Alan Shearer to manage Newcastle United if you look at their managerial history and not attachment to any one club.

 

You have to be fucking joking, seriously.

 

[Kaizero]

The arguments against him are idiotic and fueled by dislike/emotion rather than objective stats and facts, which I dislike more than I dislike OGS.

 

No. The Man U job is one of the top 3-5 in football. David Moyes shouldn’t have gotten it, he wasn’t qualified. The same goes for Solskjaer.

 

Shearer took over from Joe Kinnear And we knew that was the road we were heading down again. Of course we wanted Shearer to stay. Not comparable.

 

Absolutely comparable. Joe Kinnear was on paper much more qualified than Alan Shearer to manage Newcastle United if you look at their managerial history and not attachment to any one club.

 

You have to be fucking joking, seriously.

 

 

See edit:

 

Absolutely comparable. As much as it disgusts me to say it, Joe Kinnear was on paper much more qualified than Alan Shearer to manage Newcastle United if you look at their managerial history and not their attachment to any one club. Shearer wasn't even a manager at the time, what would your opinion be if Gary Lineker was the one appointed and not Shearer? Would you have wanted Lineker to get the job, or stay? Jaime Redknapp?

 

Pochettino is essentially just as qualified on paper for the Man Utd job as Moyes was. It's a bit of a double standard if you say Moyes shouldn't have gotten the job, yet you think Pochettino should get it when you look at their managerial history up until the point Moyes took over Man Utd, or Pochettino now if he took over tomorrow. Neither have major honors, and their biggest achievements have been building a club that didn't compete much into a team that could compete.

 

The Barcelona job is perhaps the biggest job in football, that went to a reserve team manager.

 

In the end, the manager needs to be a proper fit for a club.

[Froggy]

The most important part that Kaiz has touched on is the atmosphere around the club. The club felt rotten and had done for years until Ole took over. I don't think he's going to take us to league glory, but he has laid foundations that other managers would have struggled to. He is who we needed, and still need right now.

[Manxst]

The most important part that Kaiz has touched on is the atmosphere around the club. The club felt rotten and had done for years until Ole took over. I don't think he's going to take us to league glory, but he has laid foundations that other managers would have struggled to. He is who we needed, and still need right now.

 

Nah. If you’d have got Pep, Klopp, Bielsa or Bruce, you would be scoffing at the thought of Solskjaer.

[Robster]

The most important part that Kaiz has touched on is the atmosphere around the club. The club felt rotten and had done for years until Ole took over. I don't think he's going to take us to league glory, but he has laid foundations that other managers would have struggled to. He is who we needed, and still need right now.

Is that because of him specifically would you say or more that he's simply not LVG/Mourinho?

I think the main part of Roeder's good run here was simply because he wasn't Souness.

[Kaizero]

The arguments against him are idiotic and fueled by dislike/emotion rather than objective stats and facts, which I dislike more than I dislike OGS.

 

No. The Man U job is one of the top 3-5 in football. David Moyes shouldn’t have gotten it, he wasn’t qualified. The same goes for Solskjaer.

 

Shearer took over from Joe Kinnear And we knew that was the road we were heading down again. Of course we wanted Shearer to stay. Not comparable.

 

Absolutely comparable. As much as it disgusts me to say it, Joe Kinnear was on paper much more qualified than Alan Shearer to manage Newcastle United if you look at their managerial history and not their attachment to any one club. Shearer wasn't even a manager at the time, what would your opinion be if Gary Lineker was the one appointed and not Shearer? Would you have wanted Lineker to get the job, or stay? Jaime Redknapp?

 

Pochettino is essentially just as qualified on paper for the Man Utd job as Moyes was. It's a bit of a double standard if you say Moyes shouldn't have gotten the job, yet you think Pochettino should get it when you look at their managerial history up until the point Moyes took over Man Utd, or Pochettino now if he took over tomorrow. Neither have major honors, and their biggest achievements have been building a club that didn't compete much into a team that could compete.

 

The Barcelona job is perhaps the biggest job in football, that went to a reserve team manager.

 

In the end, the manager needs to be a proper fit for a club.

 

Those two things arent comparable at all lol, we were about to go into the championship?

 

Yes? So you wouldn't have wanted us to have appointed an experienced manager to save us at the time rather than a pundit without any coaching badges?

 

The comparison was anyway, as mentioned, with regards to OGS not deserving a second chance at a top job because he failed at Cardiff, which I challenged joeyt on with regards to SBR failing at Fulham - did he deserve a second chance?

 

The Shearer comparison was NUFC fans wanting Shearer to stay on, yet not understanding why Man Utd fans would want OGS to stay on. OGS has, again, the third highest win ratio in Man Utd managerial history and has done well a steadying the ship. He was sentenced to fail before his first match and the appointment ridiculed by anyone not associated with Man Utd, that tells me the opinion is emotionally based. Him delivering results doesn't silence critics either, which means objective facts are being put aside due to a pre-existing opinion and narrative about OGS that won't change.

 

He's doing objectively bad in the league now, but he's four points behind Man City. Why isn't Pep being shouted at due to his horrible league start?

[Froggy]

The most important part that Kaiz has touched on is the atmosphere around the club. The club felt rotten and had done for years until Ole took over. I don't think he's going to take us to league glory, but he has laid foundations that other managers would have struggled to. He is who we needed, and still need right now.

Is that because of him specifically would you say or more that he's simply not LVG/Mourinho?

I think the main part of Roeder's good run here was simply because he wasn't Souness.

 

I can't answer that with any certainty. It could well be the case. Helps that he's a club legend who knows the club inside out and has a positive attitude towards everything. One of the first things he said as boss was, "I'm going to be successful here, and there are players who won't be part of that." He proceeded to start getting rid of deadwood. Fans loved that.

 

As a whole Ole has done very well for reasons myself and Kaiz have mentioned. The league start has been horrible. But it's been the same for City, Arsenal etc. He has time to sort it. Obviously if we're sitting here in December and the league form has continued he's in big trouble such is the nature of the game now. But the majority of Manchester United fans remain behind him. They, unlike others, can see the effect he's had on the club not just with results.