Chris_R Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 OK. I agree with some of what Trollemache is saying [Tin hat on]. We can't buy the title. We can't do much better than probably 6th or 7th on a consistent basis. And we're currently 9th despite everyone bemoaning the paper thin squad, poor performances and shit manager, which is pretty contrary. Obviously something, somewhere is going right, at least to a degree. Despite that, I want Pardew out as much as the next man. Mainly because of this: If we were qualifying for the Champions' League with George Graham-style 1-0 wins few would complain. Mid table mediocrity would be tollerable if we were playing enjoyable football or going on cup runs. When your football is both ineffectual and unpleasant its pointless, as are consequentially all arguments in favour of the current manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Arsenal have consistently been in the top 4 for decades, spanning various eras of the premiership inducing the current Russian/Sheik billionaire era, their transfer policy is completely irrelevant It's relevant to them staying in the top 4 and winning titles with a ludicrously low, and frequently negative, transfer spend, while their direct rivals spent huge sums, including sums of other peoples' money, just to keep up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymc1 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 OK. I agree with some of what Trollemache is saying [Tin hat on]. We can't buy the title. We can't do much better than probably 6th or 7th on a consistent basis. And we're currently 9th despite everyone bemoaning the paper thin squad, poor performances and s*** manager, which is pretty contrary. Obviously something, somewhere is going right, at least to a degree. Despite that, I want Pardew out as much as the next man. Mainly because of this: If we were qualifying for the Champions' League with George Graham-style 1-0 wins few would complain. Mid table mediocrity would be tollerable if we were playing enjoyable football or going on cup runs. When your football is both ineffectual and unpleasant its pointless, as are consequentially all arguments in favour of the current manager. Such a defeatist attitude. "We can't do any better than we're doing now so we're not going to bother trying to improve." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Arsene Wenger won the Premier League title in his first full season because he's one of the all time great managers. You're attempting to argue that keeping the manager that we found round the back of the League One bins is us attempting to "do an Arsenal". Go and find something else to do ffs. Is this all there is to do in Croatia, wind people up on an random internet forum? Fuck me, cross it off the potential destinations list. I'm utterly embarrassed for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Arsene Wenger won the Premier League title in his first full season because he's one of the all time great managers. You're attempting to argue that keeping the manager that we found round the back of the League One bins is us attempting to "do an Arsenal". Go and find something else to do ffs. Is this all there is to do in Croatia, wind people up on an random internet forum? f*** me, cross it off the potential destinations list. I'm utterly embarrassed for you. But stability man! It will bring us success in the long run Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Arsene Wenger won the Premier League title in his first full season because he's one of the all time great managers. You're attempting to argue that keeping the manager that we found round the back of the League One bins is us attempting to "do an Arsenal". Go and find something else to do ffs. Is this all there is to do in Croatia, wind people up on an random internet forum? Fuck me, cross it off the potential destinations list. I'm utterly embarrassed for you. At what point did I say the choice of manager had anything to do with the idea of us "doing an Arsenal"? I'm not attempting to argue anything like what you've just said. Absolutely nothing like it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Righto. I'll follow my own advice and fuck off. I'm off down Neutrinos-Online.org to act like a complete arsehole for giggles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Righto. I'll follow my own advice and fuck off. I'm off down Neutrinos-Online.org to act like a complete arsehole for giggles. Goodo. Better luck actually following the thread next time I suppose Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Arsenal have consistently been in the top 4 for decades, spanning various eras of the premiership inducing the current Russian/Sheik billionaire era, their transfer policy is completely irrelevant It's relevant to them staying in the top 4 and winning titles with a ludicrously low, and frequently negative, transfer spend, while their direct rivals spent huge sums, including sums of other peoples' money, just to keep up. Jesus fucking Christ. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 But the squad has improved loads while we've been doing this! It's happened, right in front of you. Much better players than we had 3 years ago. Playing nasty Pardew football, but undeniably much better players. We've done that without spending. So if you extrapolate that, what happens? We continue to make money, we continue to accumulate better players. It might not happen, I don't know, but so far it undeniably, categorically has, hasn't it? We're way off topic here, since this is more of an Ashley / board issue than a Pardew one, but hey If the squad is much better than it was 3 years ago, why were we 9th then (3 years ago today) and are 9th now? What's gone wrong? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 1) Our form has fluctuated and 2) It's really hard to finish higher than 7th / 8th Come on Mick. Look at the squad then and now. Are you seriously trying to question the idea that it's gotten stronger? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Squad is better, the football is still shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I dont even think our squad is better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 We have a better squad (or potential starting XI) now than the one that we came up from the Championship with, it would take some fucking effort for it not to be Not sure how we're on course to do an Arsenal like. We'd probably need a time machine to go back to when "doing an Arsenal" was actually possible, or spend about £500m on playing staff, management staff and facilities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 1) Our form has fluctuated and 2) It's really hard to finish higher than 7th / 8th Come on Mick. Look at the squad then and now. Are you seriously trying to question the idea that it's gotten stronger? So maybe, just maybe, we need a manager who is capable of getting the best out of the players we have? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 1) Our form has fluctuated and 2) It's really hard to finish higher than 7th / 8th Come on Mick. Look at the squad then and now. Are you seriously trying to question the idea that it's gotten stronger? So maybe, just maybe, we need a manager who is capable of getting the best out of the players we have? There is no maybe. Fact is this will be a long drawn out pards vrs ashley. Keegan Style Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 1) Our form has fluctuated and 2) It's really hard to finish higher than 7th / 8th Come on Mick. Look at the squad then and now. Are you seriously trying to question the idea that it's gotten stronger? So maybe, just maybe, we need a manager who is capable of getting the best out of the players we have? A better manager would be great but there's no reason the improvement in playing staff has to stop. Replacing Cabaye is a big ask though. What a bargain that was Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 A better manager would be great but there's no reason the improvement in playing staff has to stop. Replacing Cabaye is a big ask though. What a bargain that was You've claimed that our squad is much stronger than it was 3 years ago yet we're in exactly the same position now as then, why should we keep improving the playing staff if we're not seeing any improvement? Surely something is holding the "much stronger" squad back and maybe that's the area we need to strengthen first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 1) Our form has fluctuated and 2) It's really hard to finish higher than 7th / 8th Come on Mick. Look at the squad then and now. Are you seriously trying to question the idea that it's gotten stronger? So maybe, just maybe, we need a manager who is capable of getting the best out of the players we have? A better manager would be great but there's no reason the improvement in playing staff has to stop. Replacing Cabaye is a big ask though. What a bargain that was Was that all down to you then Dekka? Props to you man. Nice idea to spend your winnings from Pardles on some nice hols in Croatia. Enjoy the sun while you can! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 A better manager would be great but there's no reason the improvement in playing staff has to stop. Replacing Cabaye is a big ask though. What a bargain that was You've claimed that our squad is much stronger than it was 3 years ago yet we're in exactly the same position now as then, why should we keep improving the playing staff if we're not seeing any improvement? Surely something is holding the "much stronger" squad back and maybe that's the area we need to strengthen first. As I think I mentioned in here earlier, my determination to protect Pardew's right to a fair crack had pretty much petered out by November. If we could lay our hands on a really good manager right now I'd dump him no problem. I think the main reason we find ourselves in 8th/9th though is just that it's really really hard to push on from there. We could improve the squad a fair bit and still find it a struggle to post top 6 finishes, even with a talented manager. The competition is just that strong. There are pointers to Pardew's averageness a lot more salient than our league finishes. I don't read much into them at all as a barometer of his ability relative to other managers, arse-about-face as that may seem. I think a Moyes or a Martinez or an AVB could come in and finish 8th too. Or 5th if they have a good year, or 17th if it doesn't click, but probably about 8th. But if they have a coherent philosophy, and our playing staff keeps improving, then we'll end up in the right place. The thing that worries me most about Pardew is his lack of imagination or a clear philosophy, and a sense that he doesn't know what to do when the wheels fall off. A couple of times we've gone on good runs with some system that he has just pulled out of his arse which is lovely but... When Ancelotti or Pellegrini is your manager you know exactly how you are going to do things and that it will be quite coherent. I think Pards is like the vast majority of managers in that he just tries to do the simple things right and not fuck up. tl; dr... Pardew is welcome to leave in my book, mainly for reasons other than that we'll immediately shoot up the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 1) Our form has fluctuated and 2) It's really hard to finish higher than 7th / 8th Come on Mick. Look at the squad then and now. Are you seriously trying to question the idea that it's gotten stronger? So maybe, just maybe, we need a manager who is capable of getting the best out of the players we have? A better manager would be great but there's no reason the improvement in playing staff has to stop. Replacing Cabaye is a big ask though. What a bargain that was Was that all down to you then Dekka? Props to you man. Nice idea to spend your winnings from Pardles on some nice hols in Croatia. Enjoy the sun while you can! You're not very good at this, sorry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Can we have a poll in this thread? along the lines of: "Would you take a heavy defeat in the Villa game if it meant Pardew would be sacked?" Ta. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 find anyone voting no and teabag them with a wrecking ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Can we have a poll in this thread? along the lines of: "Would you take a heavy defeat in the Villa game if it meant Pardew would be sacked?" Ta. Pretty sure that is a rhetorical question or poll I would take a drubbing and all our key players getting injured if it meant losing Pardew. Sorry to the players for saying that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 It very much depends who would come in Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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