Swissmag Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Transfer deadline day, afternoon rage session. I wish I'd never took a half day now. Less stressful at work. What did you expect? Nothing. As above I didn't take time off for deadline day, just happens there isn't much to do this afternoon but get frustrated at the tossers running our football club. What a shitty coincidence then... ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 We are where we should be give or take a couple of places? Based on what exactly? Based on money basically. Based on the money we are spending we are doing fantastically well, I'd agree. The problem is we have spent -38 million on transfers since Ashley came in. MINUS 38 million! To be in the top end of the table is no less than a miracle considering how we're being bled dry. Which leads to the simple conclusion our scouting is doing extremely well. Such a shame we have a billionaire owner who is unwilling to spend some money, not even money generated by the club itself. Imagine where we could be with a little bit of ambition, a little bit of trust in the scouting team and a little bit of investment in the squad and in a decent manager. We could be challenging up there, no doubt. We just choose not too. Indefensible from a fan's perspective, yet here you are, posting like a lunatic all day long on deadline telling people off who are understandably venting their frustration. I agree it would be nice if he would spend some of his own money, but unless the accounts show year-on-year profits I can't see how he isn't spending the money we generate. I agree a football club should reinvest all its profits, but we haven't really made any. Even if he spent £60 Million we'd likely be around where we are now in the league, given: Chelsea & Man City have near unlimited funds Spurs had the Bale money. Liverpool have a billionaire owner willing to spend plus cheapest season ticket £710 Arsenal, cheapest ticket for most games £60 Man Utd 75,000 average plus large global glory seeking fan base. Yet, and I hate to bring this up again, we're STILL only 9 points off a Champions League place. Everton, who are comparative paupers, are 4 points off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Everton care about what kind of manager they have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 You must have missed our last two sets of accounts, where we did post profits, and the new TV deal, plus maybe the Cabaye transfer a couple of days back? Yeah, small profits though, and the Cabaye money doesn't go directly into profit either. And we don't have the TV money yet. I agree though, if we continue to post regular profits then we should be reinvesting it. Small profits? Our 2011 accounts showed a 32.6M profit. Might be pocket money to you, but I'm sure it could have come in handy on the transfer market. The Cabaye money doesn't go directly into profit, but it will for a very large part (would have been on the books for 2 million tops). The TV money is a guaranteed payout in a couple of months. There are no financial excuses for the lack of investment. Just give up this line of argumentation and stick to saying you're happy to see whichever 11 blokes in black and white kick a ball about on a Saturday afternoon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 We are where we should be give or take a couple of places? Based on what exactly? Based on money basically. Based on the money we are spending we are doing fantastically well, I'd agree. The problem is we have spent -38 million on transfers since Ashley came in. MINUS 38 million! To be in the top end of the table is no less than a miracle considering how we're being bled dry. Which leads to the simple conclusion our scouting is doing extremely well. Such a shame we have a billionaire owner who is unwilling to spend some money, not even money generated by the club itself. Imagine where we could be with a little bit of ambition, a little bit of trust in the scouting team and a little bit of investment in the squad and in a decent manager. We could be challenging up there, no doubt. We just choose not too. Indefensible from a fan's perspective, yet here you are, posting like a lunatic all day long on deadline telling people off who are understandably venting their frustration. I agree it would be nice if he would spend some of his own money, but unless the accounts show year-on-year profits I can't see how he isn't spending the money we generate. I agree a football club should reinvest all its profits, but we haven't really made any. Even if he spent £60 Million we'd likely be around where we are now in the league, given: Chelsea & Man City have near unlimited funds Spurs had the Bale money. Liverpool have a billionaire owner willing to spend plus cheapest season ticket £710 Arsenal, cheapest ticket for most games £60 Man Utd 75,000 average plus large global glory seeking fan base. I wish people wouldn't perpetuate this myth that Geordies won't be happy unless we are in the CL. I agree with you that we aren't in a position to do that for financial reasons, but what Unbelievable is saying is right. It wouldn't take THAT much more investment to turn a promising squad into one that could at least challenge the top 4 and have a real chance of winning a cup. Is that being too demanding? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 We are where we should be give or take a couple of places? Based on what exactly? Based on money basically. Based on the money we are spending we are doing fantastically well, I'd agree. The problem is we have spent -38 million on transfers since Ashley came in. MINUS 38 million! To be in the top end of the table is no less than a miracle considering how we're being bled dry. Which leads to the simple conclusion our scouting is doing extremely well. Such a shame we have a billionaire owner who is unwilling to spend some money, not even money generated by the club itself. Imagine where we could be with a little bit of ambition, a little bit of trust in the scouting team and a little bit of investment in the squad and in a decent manager. We could be challenging up there, no doubt. We just choose not too. Indefensible from a fan's perspective, yet here you are, posting like a lunatic all day long on deadline telling people off who are understandably venting their frustration. I agree it would be nice if he would spend some of his own money, but unless the accounts show year-on-year profits I can't see how he isn't spending the money we generate. I agree a football club should reinvest all its profits, but we haven't really made any. Even if he spent £60 Million we'd likely be around where we are now in the league, given: Chelsea & Man City have near unlimited funds Spurs had the Bale money. Liverpool have a billionaire owner willing to spend plus cheapest season ticket £710 Arsenal, cheapest ticket for most games £60 Man Utd 75,000 average plus large global glory seeking fan base. There is that, but I didn't want to bring it up. So, in reality we should just close the shop then, whats the point? I hate a losers attitude like this. We should try to maximize our potential at all times. Get the best manager possible. Build the best squad. Do it by the means we have, but do not tell me to accept that Liverpool and Spurs are beyond our reach. FFS try to achieve something! With this attitude its impressive you guys get out of bed each morning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Whilst I'm obviously annoyed that we never invest when we're clearly in a position to do so, I don't think that saying "if we spend this or that we'd be in such-and-such a position." We could spend a comparatively meagre amount to the likes of City and Co, and still be in with a shout of 4th. Replace the current manager with a decent one and add a couple more players - we'd have been in with a shout of 4th. I'm hesitant to offer credit but one thing I 'agree' with regarding our transfer model is that you don't need to spend ridiculous amounts to progress. A team is worth more than the sum of its parts, typething. Crossed wires there though cos, again, it's not like their stance on frugality is related to actual footballing philosophy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 You must have missed our last two sets of accounts, where we did post profits, and the new TV deal, plus maybe the Cabaye transfer a couple of days back? Yeah, small profits though, and the Cabaye money doesn't go directly into profit either. And we don't have the TV money yet. I agree though, if we continue to post regular profits then we should be reinvesting it. Small profits? Our 2011 accounts showed a 32.6M profit. Might be pocket money to you, but I'm sure it could have come in handy on the transfer market. The Cabaye money doesn't go directly into profit, but it will for a very large part (would have been on the books for 2 million tops). The TV money is a guaranteed payout in a couple of months. There are no financial excuses for the lack of investment. Just give up this line of argumentation and stick to saying you're happy to see whichever 11 blokes in black and white kick a ball about on a Saturday afternoon. You know as well as I do that the large profit there was because of selling Carroll. And it came off the back of years of sustained losses creating large debts. We don't disagree basically, if we continue to make profits (I would allow some debt repayments as well) then I believe we should spend them on the club. Not necessarily all on transfer fees, but on the club at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 We are where we should be give or take a couple of places? Based on what exactly? Based on money basically. Based on the money we are spending we are doing fantastically well, I'd agree. The problem is we have spent -38 million on transfers since Ashley came in. MINUS 38 million! To be in the top end of the table is no less than a miracle considering how we're being bled dry. Which leads to the simple conclusion our scouting is doing extremely well. Such a shame we have a billionaire owner who is unwilling to spend some money, not even money generated by the club itself. Imagine where we could be with a little bit of ambition, a little bit of trust in the scouting team and a little bit of investment in the squad and in a decent manager. We could be challenging up there, no doubt. We just choose not too. Indefensible from a fan's perspective, yet here you are, posting like a lunatic all day long on deadline telling people off who are understandably venting their frustration. I agree it would be nice if he would spend some of his own money, but unless the accounts show year-on-year profits I can't see how he isn't spending the money we generate. I agree a football club should reinvest all its profits, but we haven't really made any. Even if he spent £60 Million we'd likely be around where we are now in the league, given: Chelsea & Man City have near unlimited funds Spurs had the Bale money. Liverpool have a billionaire owner willing to spend plus cheapest season ticket £710 Arsenal, cheapest ticket for most games £60 Man Utd 75,000 average plus large global glory seeking fan base. Yet, and I hate to bring this up again, we're STILL only 9 points off a Champions League place. Everton, who are comparative paupers, are 4 points off. I know that, but as I said, we're about where we would likely be even if we'd spent £60 Mill, we are not going to catch Chelsea or City or Arsenal, that's one place left up for grabs between Liverpool, Man U, Spurs, Everton (who've just lost Lukaku for a spell of time) and us, we could yet finish above Everton and maybe even Spurs I doubt we finish above Liverpool (because Suarez the cheat is a world class difference maker) or Man U (Rooney, RVP and now Matta). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 So, in reality we should just close the shop then, whats the point? I hate a losers attitude like this. We should try to maximize our potential at all times. Get the best manager possible. Build the best squad. Do it by the means we have, but do not tell me to accept that Liverpool and Spurs are beyond our reach. FFS try to achieve something! With this attitude its impressive you guys get out of bed each morning. You've kind of missed the point. Of course we should try to get the best manager possible. But what is 'possible'? Selected by Mike Ashley and Joe Kinnear? And of course we should build the best squad possible. But what is possible? Within our financial means? It's heartwarmihng and lovely to play "who's the best fan" by restating how much you think NUFC are great, but I'm trying to have a discussion about the reality of our situation. Assuming Ashley isn't going to decide to sink millions more or sell us to a benevolent sheik. Edit: or see ToonPack post above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 There's a good £36m sitting in the bank just from player sales. That's within our financial means, right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Whilst I'm obviously annoyed that we never invest when we're clearly in a position to do so, I don't think that saying "if we spend this or that we'd be in such-and-such a position." We could spend a comparatively meagre amount to the likes of City and Co, and still be in with a shout of 4th. Replace the current manager with a decent one and add a couple more players - we'd have been in with a shout of 4th. I'm hesitant to offer credit but one thing I 'agree' with regarding our transfer model is that you don't need to spend ridiculous amounts to progress. A team is worth more than the sum of its parts, typething. Crossed wires there though cos, again, it's not like their stance on frugality is related to actual footballing philosophy. Aye. On the surface our transfer policy is sound imo, we've made some really, really good buys and, tbf, I don't think we've signed someone yet that could be considered a disaster? The worst arguably Cisse who pushed us into Europe. I genuinely believe that, whilst still operating the way we do now, we'd be challenging the Champions League consistently if we'd just go out and fill out the gaping holes in the squad with quality, both for the first team and in reserve. Spend a good £30m or so on the players (or less if we can) we need and then patch up with frugality in the future, in the same fashion we are now, only we'll be maintaining a full squad as opposed to patching up 3/4 of one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 You must have missed our last two sets of accounts, where we did post profits, and the new TV deal, plus maybe the Cabaye transfer a couple of days back? Yeah, small profits though, and the Cabaye money doesn't go directly into profit either. And we don't have the TV money yet. I agree though, if we continue to post regular profits then we should be reinvesting it. Small profits? Our 2011 accounts showed a 32.6M profit. Might be pocket money to you, but I'm sure it could have come in handy on the transfer market. The Cabaye money doesn't go directly into profit, but it will for a very large part (would have been on the books for 2 million tops). The TV money is a guaranteed payout in a couple of months. There are no financial excuses for the lack of investment. Just give up this line of argumentation and stick to saying you're happy to see whichever 11 blokes in black and white kick a ball about on a Saturday afternoon. You know as well as I do that the large profit there was because of selling Carroll. And it came off the back of years of sustained losses creating large debts. We don't disagree basically, if we continue to make profits (I would allow some debt repayments as well) then I believe we should spend them on the club. Not necessarily all on transfer fees, but on the club at least. It's not that we don't agree Ian, it's that you haven't got your facts straight. This will be the third year in a row we make a profit, and probably a huge one at that, yet we're spending less and less on the squad. That's before you even get into the concept of the owner actually dipping into his own pocket to help his football club out, which was once promised but never materialised. And even then, if he didn't feel like putting more of his own money in, he could at least have the common decency to pay a commercial rate for the advertisement all over our beloved stadium. Anyway, looking forward to seeing your reaction on Summer 2014 deadline day after we've posted another huge profit (3 years in a row) and we won't have reinvested it in the squad. Have a feeling it will be more of the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 We are where we should be give or take a couple of places? Based on what exactly? Based on money basically. Based on the money we are spending we are doing fantastically well, I'd agree. The problem is we have spent -38 million on transfers since Ashley came in. MINUS 38 million! To be in the top end of the table is no less than a miracle considering how we're being bled dry. Which leads to the simple conclusion our scouting is doing extremely well. Such a shame we have a billionaire owner who is unwilling to spend some money, not even money generated by the club itself. Imagine where we could be with a little bit of ambition, a little bit of trust in the scouting team and a little bit of investment in the squad and in a decent manager. We could be challenging up there, no doubt. We just choose not too. Indefensible from a fan's perspective, yet here you are, posting like a lunatic all day long on deadline telling people off who are understandably venting their frustration. I agree it would be nice if he would spend some of his own money, but unless the accounts show year-on-year profits I can't see how he isn't spending the money we generate. I agree a football club should reinvest all its profits, but we haven't really made any. Even if he spent £60 Million we'd likely be around where we are now in the league, given: Chelsea & Man City have near unlimited funds Spurs had the Bale money. Liverpool have a billionaire owner willing to spend plus cheapest season ticket £710 Arsenal, cheapest ticket for most games £60 Man Utd 75,000 average plus large global glory seeking fan base. There is that, but I didn't want to bring it up. So, in reality we should just close the shop then, whats the point? I hate a losers attitude like this. We should try to maximize our potential at all times. Get the best manager possible. Build the best squad. Do it by the means we have, but do not tell me to accept that Liverpool and Spurs are beyond our reach. FFS try to achieve something! With this attitude its impressive you guys get out of bed each morning. They're not, eventually, but they are today in terms of draw/spending power. It's not a loser mentality at all, it's a realism that progress will be slow and steady, but I do believe we are making progress, the squad of players we have would support that. There ain't no magic bullet, even if Ashley splurged £100 Mill there's nothing guaranteed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 The limp biscuits are out in force today Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Whilst I'm obviously annoyed that we never invest when we're clearly in a position to do so, I don't think that saying "if we spend this or that we'd be in such-and-such a position." We could spend a comparatively meagre amount to the likes of City and Co, and still be in with a shout of 4th. Replace the current manager with a decent one and add a couple more players - we'd have been in with a shout of 4th. I'm hesitant to offer credit but one thing I 'agree' with regarding our transfer model is that you don't need to spend ridiculous amounts to progress. A team is worth more than the sum of its parts, typething. Crossed wires there though cos, again, it's not like their stance on frugality is related to actual footballing philosophy. Aye. On the surface our transfer policy is sound imo, we've made some really, really good buys and, tbf, I don't think we've signed someone yet that could be considered a disaster? The worst arguably Cisse who pushed us into Europe. I genuinely believe that, whilst still operating the way we do now, we'd be challenging the Champions League consistently if we'd just go out and fill out the gaping holes in the squad with quality, both for the first team and in reserve. Spend a good £30m or so on the players (or less if we can) we need and then patch up with frugality in the future, in the same fashion we are now, only we'll be maintaining a full squad as opposed to patching up 3/4 of one. the amount spent on players isn't all that important to me personally so long as we actually address the needs of the squad which has never been the priority Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 The limp biscuits are out in force today No offence man, but your posts stink the place out. You contribute absolutely nothing and then laugh at anyone with a different opinion. It's rank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Nett last 5 seasons: 1 Manchester City £479,950,000 2 Chelsea £269,759,000 3 Manchester United £138,750,000 4 Stoke City £91,175,000 5 Liverpool £89,400,000 6 Aston Villa £86,000,000 7 Southampton £60,750,000 8 Hull City £47,775,000 9 Sunderland £46,930,000 10 Cardiff City £40,470,000 11 West Ham £30,550,000 12 Norwich City £21,650,000 13 Swansea £18,745,000 14 West Bromwich Albion £14,726,000 15 Crystal Palace £11,950,000 16 Fulham £10,880,000 17 Tottenham £3,850,000 18 Arsenal -£4,125,000 19 Everton -£12,315,500 20 Newcastle -£45,000,000 I really really REALLY can't believe this. Where's the ambition? If Stoke goes down they'll do it the Portsmouth way... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 The limp biscuits are out in force today You must be all of 13 years old I'd guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ads Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 How has this thread been running all day? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 So, in reality we should just close the shop then, whats the point? I hate a losers attitude like this. We should try to maximize our potential at all times. Get the best manager possible. Build the best squad. Do it by the means we have, but do not tell me to accept that Liverpool and Spurs are beyond our reach. FFS try to achieve something! With this attitude its impressive you guys get out of bed each morning. You've kind of missed the point. Of course we should try to get the best manager possible. But what is 'possible'? Selected by Mike Ashley and Joe Kinnear? And of course we should build the best squad possible. But what is possible? Within our financial means? I think you are not getting my point, but i might misunderstood your post? My point is that you guys have accepted that the club have no ambition, and defend that on this forum. For me, as a football fan this is unbelievable. Toonpack writes this: Chelsea & Man City have near unlimited funds Spurs had the Bale money. Liverpool have a billionaire owner willing to spend plus cheapest season ticket £710 Arsenal, cheapest ticket for most games £60 Man Utd 75,000 average plus large global glory seeking fan base. You agree, almost like its not a chance in hell to compete with the top 6 in PL. Our owner is a cunt, so is our director of football, and our manager is average at best. But its not impossible to compete if we went for it and ran the club like a proper football club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 How has this thread been running all day? Some people NEVER STOP POSTING. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Wish LTF had never fkn started it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Whilst I'm obviously annoyed that we never invest when we're clearly in a position to do so, I don't think that saying "if we spend this or that we'd be in such-and-such a position." We could spend a comparatively meagre amount to the likes of City and Co, and still be in with a shout of 4th. Replace the current manager with a decent one and add a couple more players - we'd have been in with a shout of 4th. I'm hesitant to offer credit but one thing I 'agree' with regarding our transfer model is that you don't need to spend ridiculous amounts to progress. A team is worth more than the sum of its parts, typething. Crossed wires there though cos, again, it's not like their stance on frugality is related to actual footballing philosophy. Aye. On the surface our transfer policy is sound imo, we've made some really, really good buys and, tbf, I don't think we've signed someone yet that could be considered a disaster? The worst arguably Cisse who pushed us into Europe. I genuinely believe that, whilst still operating the way we do now, we'd be challenging the Champions League consistently if we'd just go out and fill out the gaping holes in the squad with quality, both for the first team and in reserve. Spend a good £30m or so on the players (or less if we can) we need and then patch up with frugality in the future, in the same fashion we are now, only we'll be maintaining a full squad as opposed to patching up 3/4 of one. I agree. I don't know if it makes me an apologist (I hope it doesn't), but I think a lot of what 'the board' do is commendable and sensible, especially in this era where money is fucking everything. It's a moot point but, for example, I would rather achieve City's success via policies like ours than a route like theirs. I had a FIFA career once where a glitch gave my team £12billion to spend, and I won fucking everything. That's no different to irl City iyam. The problem with our transfer policy is that it's too rigid and is motivated by the wrong reasons. Ashley's egotistical at the end of the day; he doesn't care about the club - that's where it's flawed and why we'll never achieve anything with him. If the transfer policy actually married with a genuine desire to succeed, we'd probably be onto a good thing. We'd probably have a better DoF and manager to oversee the whole thing, for a start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Whilst I'm obviously annoyed that we never invest when we're clearly in a position to do so, I don't think that saying "if we spend this or that we'd be in such-and-such a position." We could spend a comparatively meagre amount to the likes of City and Co, and still be in with a shout of 4th. Replace the current manager with a decent one and add a couple more players - we'd have been in with a shout of 4th. I'm hesitant to offer credit but one thing I 'agree' with regarding our transfer model is that you don't need to spend ridiculous amounts to progress. A team is worth more than the sum of its parts, typething. Crossed wires there though cos, again, it's not like their stance on frugality is related to actual footballing philosophy. Aye. On the surface our transfer policy is sound imo, we've made some really, really good buys and, tbf, I don't think we've signed someone yet that could be considered a disaster? The worst arguably Cisse who pushed us into Europe. I genuinely believe that, whilst still operating the way we do now, we'd be challenging the Champions League consistently if we'd just go out and fill out the gaping holes in the squad with quality, both for the first team and in reserve. Spend a good £30m or so on the players (or less if we can) we need and then patch up with frugality in the future, in the same fashion we are now, only we'll be maintaining a full squad as opposed to patching up 3/4 of one. the amount spent on players isn't all that important to me personally so long as we actually address the needs of the squad which has never been the priority Not sure if you're agreeing or not there, but aye, that's pretty much what I'm saying. It doesn't matter how much money we spend, we just need to bring quality players in to fill the obvious gaps in the squad. We've played half of a season and Shola Ameobi has made 16 appearances. Starting 9. We're playing with a centre forward and a centre mid on our wings, and have Mike Williamson in the centre of defence, and he's been partnered with Steven Taylor for the last few games. That squad can be improved really, really easily, and it would surely be a good investment if it was done as quickly as possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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