mrmojorisin75 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I'm a season ticket holder and up for any protest that will at the very least make some sort of point to the hierarchy. I also don't think we will finish anywhere near 8th, from what I saw on Saturday confidence is at an all time low and Pardew has neither the skill or the desire anymore to improve it. i don't think we've plumbed the depths of last season yet personally Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Was wondering when a thread like this would appear Perfect opportunity for those who don't attend matches to lecture the mindless happy clappers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Spaceman Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Aye, because we all know how valid your argument is if you don't go to matches Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 We will of course though see in this thread the vacuous argument that being a supporter means going to matches regardless of any circumstance and that it is even somehow admirable to actively enable those who take the p*ss out of you. Which is akin to some sort of retarded old military romanticism like charging at machine guns. Popped over to TT to gauge the reaction to the derby loss and found this gem from HappyFace: How do football followers not have any inkling of the mindset a fellow supporter has? A mindset that says you support your team through thick and thin, one that has an element of pride in not missing a game in 10 years, 20 years however bad it got. We kept going after relegation we'll not stop because we're 8th and lost a few derbies. The fact you laugh at that illustrates my point perfectly. Thanks. Not sure what age you are or how many years you've gone without missing a game or if you have a kid whose starting to take an interest in Man City because he can watch them on the telly as easily as Newcastle and they're good. But like those fans who mythically booed Robson for finishing 5th or the real life fans who walked out and left the team to do a lap of honour to a half empty stadium, to vent 5 minutes of anger 10 years ago, you'll be stigmatised in the football world for a long time to come if you choose to walk away now. For better or worse, football support is not a pursuit founded on the same principals as grocery shopping. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Aye, because we all know how valid your argument is if you don't go to matches Eh? Everyone's opinion is valid, just think it's incredibly arrogant for people who have stopped going/never been to decree that not attending is the 'right' thing to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I actually can't think of anything worse than supporting a team that aims to simply exist. We don't want to challenge for Europe, we don't want to challenge for a trophy - what's the point of being here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 We only have one way of fighting this and it just seems people are doing the opposite despite being treat with constant contempt. There's just no significant opposition to the utter s*** we're being put through and that needs to change. Spot on. We will of course though see in this thread the vacuous argument that being a supporter means going to matches regardless of any circumstance and that it is even somehow admirable to actively enable those who take the p*ss out of you. Which is akin to some sort of retarded old military romanticism like charging at machine guns. Nice analogy. Supporting through thick and thin captures a lot - being fucked over by refs, blowing your last chance at silverware or success for what you expect will be an unforeseeably long time etc... but it doesn't include funding/supporting a management structure which seeks to deny you the opportunity to even feel such nadirs/injustice or makes you ashamed of the club. I'd personally even go as far to argue its incumbent upon fans who support what I perceive to be the values of the club, to turn your back on those who seek to make it into the pathetic sponsorship vehicle it is (/becoming). Supporting your club does not exclusively occur through the emptying of your wallet into Ashley's collection sack and obsequiously watching and passively swallowing whatever they serve (reminder: if this Cisse deals go through, Shola is our owned first-choice striker), and I'd wager a lot of the fans who aren't renewing find it quite agonising to stay away. I wouldn't call them fairweather fans (or whatever meaningless barb you want) at all. I've never been a ST and if that invalidates my opinion, so be it - but I miss coming up to Newcastle the handful of times I go every season and I'd much prefer to go than stay away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Aye, because we all know how valid your argument is if you don't go to matches Eh? Everyone's opinion is valid, just think it's incredibly arrogant for people who have stopped going/never been to decree that not attending is the 'right' thing to do. think people are suggesting solutions that might break us out of the artificially-induced football coma we're in tbh, don't see the point in getting precious about it if you think the best solution is to keep giving your money to the club with no sign of disapproval whatsoever Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Supporting through thick and thin captures a lot - being fucked over by refs, blowing your last chance at silverware or success for what you expect will be an unforeseeably long time etc... but it doesn't include funding/supporting a management structure which seeks to deny you the opportunity to even feel such nadirs/injustice or makes you ashamed of the club. I'd personally even go as far to argue its incumbent upon fans who support what I perceive to be the values of the club, to turn your back on those who seek to make it into the pathetic sponsorship vehicle it is (/becoming). Supporting your club does not exclusively occur through the emptying of your wallet into Ashley's collection sack and obsequiously watching and passively swallowing whatever they serve (reminder: if this Cisse deals go through, Shola is our owned first-choice striker), and I'd wager a lot of the fans who aren't renewing find it quite agonising to stay away. I wouldn't call them fairweather fans (or whatever meaningless barb you want) at all. I've never been a ST and if that invalidates my opinion, so be it - but I miss coming up to Newcastle the handful of times I go every season and I'd much prefer to go than stay away. Whether or not you see value in fans staying away is irrelevant. Outside influences provide no excuses whatsoever as to why a clubs crowds drop off. If our crowds dropped to 20,000 off the back of being 8th it would be a stick that was used to beat us for decades to come. See this section of NUFC.com for example... http://www.nufc.com/html/where-were-we.html There's no context given to excuse ANY clubs poor attendances. Man City got 3000 people to a game in 1998. That's it. Inexcusable... "Where were you when you were shit?" Fans wear their attendance records like a badge of honour. If circumstances dictate that you don't have that badge in the first place, it doesn't make you a lesser person, but it does make it easier to argue that others should sacrifice their's. Strange breed football fans. In 20 years when we win the title five years running the proudest people won't be those that stopped going and forced Ashley out, it will be those who regale the new fans about "You don't know you're born you lot, I was there when we lost to the Mackems 3 nil at home 2 years running, 6 nil off Liverpool etc." You still see it now, 20 years since, from people who went to Derby, Leicester, Wolves and that in 92. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Aye, because we all know how valid your argument is if you don't go to matches Eh? Everyone's opinion is valid, just think it's incredibly arrogant for people who have stopped going/never been to decree that not attending is the 'right' thing to do. think people are suggesting solutions that might break us out of the artificially-induced football coma we're in tbh, don't see the point in getting precious about it if you think the best solution is to keep giving your money to the club with no sign of disapproval whatsoever Again, apart from the full throated, stadium-wide "get out of our club..." the booing the Kinnear lacerating and the pitch invasions. That was a sign of disapproval. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gleebals Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Depends what way you look at it really. The fans failing to see what MA is doing to this club and not doing anything about it says its own story. Granted it would require a massive consensus on this before any action was even not worthy enough to make any difference what so ever to how MA runs this club. Sadly, nothing is ever going to change under the current owner is in charge unless the fans unite and take action against the principles on which this club is currently being run. If we don't then sadly, polls and discussions like this are meaningless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 No blmae can be pointed at the fans whatsoever. The fans customers have absolutly zero say in anything. Utter nonsense - customers ALWAYS have a say...look what happened when M&S tried to introduce GM foods some years ago ; people stopped going for a while and they dropped the policy like a hot potato. If 20,000 stopped going to SJP for a while, just watch what would happen. Your argument is a cop-out. Someone's pointed out though, match day income is a fraction compared to say, TV money. M&S don't have that. Do you think Ashley would be happy to have match-day cameras scanning round a half-empty SJP at KO time...? Do you think he would like commentators pointing out that NUFC used to have 50,000 every week (until the fans got disenchanted with his policies)...? If Ashley cut even more from the virtually non-existent transfer budget to make up for lost fans, crowds would fall even more...we were down to 20,000 before KK arrived in 1992.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 The fans failing to see what MA is doing to this club Never met anyone that this applies to. and not doing anything about it That applies to just about everyone, except the people that invade the pitch or set up a mock funeral and get laughed at for it by other fans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Do you think Ashley would be happy to have match-day cameras scanning round a half-empty SJP at KO time...? Do you think he would like commentators pointing out that NUFC used to have 50,000 every week (until the fans got disenchanted with his policies)...? If Ashley cut even more from the virtually non-existent transfer budget to make up for lost fans, crowds would fall even more...we were down to 20,000 before KK arrived in 1992.... If Ashley dropped the ticket price to £5 do you think the stadium would remain empty long? Or if he gave tickets away free with any purchase over £30 at Sports Direct? People have been cancelling season tickets left right and centre, demand has dropped off considerably, and every time, the club simply reduce the prices further and there's other people happy to take a bargain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Why does he do that if he doesn't care about the attendances then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Whilst I'd never criticise fans for wanting to go and watch their team I think HF's argument is a strange one. I don't really care what other fans think of us, if something is in the best interests of the club it's the right course of action regardless of people having a stick to beat us with. It's small time thinking, the likes of which is what keeps us in situations like this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Aye, because we all know how valid your argument is if you don't go to matches Eh? Everyone's opinion is valid, just think it's incredibly arrogant for people who have stopped going/never been to decree that not attending is the 'right' thing to do. think people are suggesting solutions that might break us out of the artificially-induced football coma we're in tbh, don't see the point in getting precious about it if you think the best solution is to keep giving your money to the club with no sign of disapproval whatsoever Again, apart from the full throated, stadium-wide "get out of our club..." the booing the Kinnear lacerating and the pitch invasions. That was a sign of disapproval. 50,000 people shouting hate at kinnear the fucking dupe who was put there in the first place for that very reason 50,000 people turn up the following game disapproval indeed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Why does he do that if he doesn't care about the attendances then? Same as the 'he doesn't care what we think' argument. It's been proved incorrect time and time again, people will still argue it when it suits them. I've got much more respect for the supporters who just say 'fuck it, I want to watch the team and I'm not letting anything stop me'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Also, the idea that attendances are dropping because we're 8th is laughable, and along the lines if something I'd expect to hear from fans of other clubs with little clue about what's actually going on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Why does he do that if he doesn't care about the attendances then? Not sure who said he doesn't care about attendance. My view is that the income received on a matchday is not a priority for him. Having a the camera's pointed at a full stand covered in Sports Direct signage is very important to him I think...hence the reason he'll be glad to give tickets away if people stop buying tickets, to at least fill the lower tiers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Also, the idea that attendances are dropping because we're 8th is laughable, and along the lines if something I'd expect to hear from fans of other clubs with little clue about what's actually going on. Yeah, like .com do to other fans on that page I linked to. Kinda making my point for me again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Happy - cf. "Meaningless barb" An RTGesque argument pointing at a season with low attendance with no context (whether raised by .com or a less credible source)? Is that all? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Also, the idea that attendances are dropping because we're 8th is laughable, and along the lines if something I'd expect to hear from fans of other clubs with little clue about what's actually going on. Yeah, like .com do to other fans on that page I linked to. Kinda making my point for me again. What? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Also, the idea that attendances are dropping because we're 8th is laughable, and along the lines if something I'd expect to hear from fans of other clubs with little clue about what's actually going on. Yeah, like .com do to other fans on that page I linked to. Kinda making my point for me again. What? Attendance through bad times is a badge of honour and a stick to beat you with, regardless of context. Our attendances have increased year on year for the past 4 years by the way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Supporting through thick and thin captures a lot - being f***ed over by refs, blowing your last chance at silverware or success for what you expect will be an unforeseeably long time etc... but it doesn't include funding/supporting a management structure which seeks to deny you the opportunity to even feel such nadirs/injustice or makes you ashamed of the club. I'd personally even go as far to argue its incumbent upon fans who support what I perceive to be the values of the club, to turn your back on those who seek to make it into the pathetic sponsorship vehicle it is (/becoming). Supporting your club does not exclusively occur through the emptying of your wallet into Ashley's collection sack and obsequiously watching and passively swallowing whatever they serve (reminder: if this Cisse deals go through, Shola is our owned first-choice striker), and I'd wager a lot of the fans who aren't renewing find it quite agonising to stay away. I wouldn't call them fairweather fans (or whatever meaningless barb you want) at all. I've never been a ST and if that invalidates my opinion, so be it - but I miss coming up to Newcastle the handful of times I go every season and I'd much prefer to go than stay away. Whether or not you see value in fans staying away is irrelevant. Outside influences provide no excuses whatsoever as to why a clubs crowds drop off. If our crowds dropped to 20,000 off the back of being 8th it would be a stick that was used to beat us for decades to come. See this section of NUFC.com for example... http://www.nufc.com/html/where-were-we.html There's no context given to excuse ANY clubs poor attendances. Man City got 3000 people to a game in 1998. That's it. Inexcusable... "Where were you when you were s***?" Fans wear their attendance records like a badge of honour. If circumstances dictate that you don't have that badge in the first place, it doesn't make you a lesser person, but it does make it easier to argue that others should sacrifice their's. Strange breed football fans. In 20 years when we win the title five years running the proudest people won't be those that stopped going and forced Ashley out, it will be those who regale the new fans about "You don't know you're born you lot, I was there when we lost to the Mackems 3 nil at home 2 years running, 6 nil off Liverpool etc." You still see it now, 20 years since, from people who went to Derby, Leicester, Wolves and that in 92. This is a great point, far from being "happy clappers" the majority of fans that sit around me see going to the match as the only way to protest and talk about how much of a wanker the top brass are, for some people staying away is not an option Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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