Moyes or Martinez?

[Taylor Swift]

If it was so difficult for Martinez to keep Wigan up year after year then why is Bruce making such an easy job of it this year without spending loads of money? He did it with Wigan too and also Birmingham.

 

 

What are you on about? Not spending loads of money? Haven't they spent for like £25m more than they've sold for this season?

 

They're a newly promoted club.

 

Anyway, they've signed some good players. Long and Huddlestone are Premiership players. They look like they'll survive for a while.

[Taylor Swift]

Bruce got relegated with Birmingham.

 

He got them back up instantly, IIRC.

 

I never said he didn't.

 

I know, mate. I was just saying that his record isn't bad and putting some perspective on the relegation.

[Flip]

If it was so difficult for Martinez to keep Wigan up year after year then why is Bruce making such an easy job of it this year without spending loads of money? He did it with Wigan too and also Birmingham.

 

 

What are you on about? Not spending loads of money? Haven't they spent for like £25m more than they've sold for this season?

 

They're a newly promoted club.

 

Anyway, they've signed some good players. Long and Huddlestone are Premiership players. They look like they'll survive for a while.

 

Being a newly promoted club doesn't mean much when you've been in the league just couple seasons back and have invested a lot into the club. Wigan basically had a net spend around £0 during Martinez time did they not? I'm asking since I remember seeing something close to zero compared to other clubs. Look at how much Bruce has sold players for the past two seasons at Hull also.

 

It would be like saying Hughton/Pardew is better than Martinez because we finished higher than Wigan.

[Belfast Mags]

Moyes record is great while Martinez's is mixed? Right the guy basically made Swansea a Premier League club, he also won the FA Cup while year after year managing to keep Wigan in the PL despite having by far the worst squad in the league, he's also taken Everton to it's highest point total ever.

 

Frightening how wrong all this is.

 

How is it wrong? I'm not saying he got them into the PL, I'm saying he set a foundation for the club and took them from League one to a playoff challenger in the Championship. Also there's no way you can't agree they didn't have the worst squad in the league year after year.

 

a) He didn't "basically make them a Premier League club", they had two managers after him.

 

b) He didn't "win the FA Cup while keeping Wigan up"

 

c) It's not Everton's highest ever points total.

 

It was all wrong.

 

Incidentally, if you're going down the route of "Martinez built Swansea even though he didn't have direct influence on promotion", then I'm afraid Moyes completely blows him out the water as far as Everton are concerned.

 

Really, didn't know they achieved more under Moyes tbh, that's surprising, what season was it?

They must be pretty close to it now though

[Flip]

Moyes record is great while Martinez's is mixed? Right the guy basically made Swansea a Premier League club, he also won the FA Cup while year after year managing to keep Wigan in the PL despite having by far the worst squad in the league, he's also taken Everton to it's highest point total ever.

 

Frightening how wrong all this is.

 

How is it wrong? I'm not saying he got them into the PL, I'm saying he set a foundation for the club and took them from League one to a playoff challenger in the Championship. Also there's no way you can't agree they didn't have the worst squad in the league year after year.

 

a) He didn't "basically make them a Premier League club", they had two managers after him.

 

b) He didn't "win the FA Cup while keeping Wigan up"

 

c) It's not Everton's highest ever points total.

 

It was all wrong.

 

Incidentally, if you're going down the route of "Martinez built Swansea even though he didn't have direct influence on promotion", then I'm afraid Moyes completely blows him out the water as far as Everton are concerned.

 

Really, didn't know they achieved more under Moyes tbh, that's surprising, what season was it?

They must be pretty close to it now though

 

It's their highest in the PL era.

[Belfast Mags]

Moyes record is great while Martinez's is mixed? Right the guy basically made Swansea a Premier League club, he also won the FA Cup while year after year managing to keep Wigan in the PL despite having by far the worst squad in the league, he's also taken Everton to it's highest point total ever.

 

Frightening how wrong all this is.

 

How is it wrong? I'm not saying he got them into the PL, I'm saying he set a foundation for the club and took them from League one to a playoff challenger in the Championship. Also there's no way you can't agree they didn't have the worst squad in the league year after year.

 

a) He didn't "basically make them a Premier League club", they had two managers after him.

 

b) He didn't "win the FA Cup while keeping Wigan up"

 

c) It's not Everton's highest ever points total.

 

It was all wrong.

 

Incidentally, if you're going down the route of "Martinez built Swansea even though he didn't have direct influence on promotion", then I'm afraid Moyes completely blows him out the water as far as Everton are concerned.

 

Really, didn't know they achieved more under Moyes tbh, that's surprising, what season was it?

They must be pretty close to it now though

 

It's their highest in the PL era.

 

It was my understanding that it was higher than Moyes ever achieved at any rate (which is all that really matter for this debate)

[Flip]

Moyes record is great while Martinez's is mixed? Right the guy basically made Swansea a Premier League club, he also won the FA Cup while year after year managing to keep Wigan in the PL despite having by far the worst squad in the league, he's also taken Everton to it's highest point total ever.

 

Frightening how wrong all this is.

 

How is it wrong? I'm not saying he got them into the PL, I'm saying he set a foundation for the club and took them from League one to a playoff challenger in the Championship. Also there's no way you can't agree they didn't have the worst squad in the league year after year.

 

a) He didn't "basically make them a Premier League club", they had two managers after him.

 

b) He didn't "win the FA Cup while keeping Wigan up"

 

c) It's not Everton's highest ever points total.

 

It was all wrong.

 

Incidentally, if you're going down the route of "Martinez built Swansea even though he didn't have direct influence on promotion", then I'm afraid Moyes completely blows him out the water as far as Everton are concerned.

 

Really, didn't know they achieved more under Moyes tbh, that's surprising, what season was it?

They must be pretty close to it now though

 

It's their highest in the PL era.

 

It was my understanding that it was higher than Moyes ever achieved at any rate (which is all that really matter for this debate)

 

Wullie didn't get my points, should've made it clearer initially although I didn't know he'd read into them so literally.

[KaKa]

Ultimately, if you have more talented players I think Martinez does more with them. If you have less talented players then Moyes will do more with them. This is ultimately down to each individual's approach and philosophy.

 

I think our team is pretty talented to be honest, and not far off Everton's in terms of ability. Martinez all the way.

[Guest waterbottle]

What a huge difference an year can make

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I was never sure if Martinez was a good manager or not, it was hard to know with Wigan and it still is with Everton TBH. But when I hear him talk about football he seems one of the most intelligent and positive managers I've ever heard, so I choose to believe he's got something about him. A bad season doesn't mean he's not a good manager.

[Guest waterbottle]

I was never sure if Martinez was a good manager or not, it was hard to know with Wigan and it still is with Everton TBH. But when I hear him talk about football he seems one of the most intelligent and positive managers I've ever heard, so I choose to believe he's got something about him. A bad season doesn't mean he's not a good manager.

 

Martinez needs to bite the bullet and realise that like how Allardyce needs an attacking coach to help him, he needs a defensive one. Moyes had drilled them into one of the best defensive units in the league, but now he's gone, and in their first year, they were still good defensively.

 

Due to this mixture, they were pretty much near the top

 

And now... they aren't

 

Honestly, I rate Koeman much higher than Martinez, and Moyes as well

[Village Idiot]

Moyes is merely being "meh" for Real Sociedad, so I think the current answer to the poll is "neither".

[Guest waterbottle]

Moyes is merely being "meh" for Real Sociedad, so I think the current answer to the poll is "neither".

But Moyes wasn't having relegation seasons for Everton towards the end, was he?

 

Sociedad brought him in to save them from relegation, I think he's doing his job

 

[Village Idiot]

Moyes is merely being "meh" for Real Sociedad, so I think the current answer to the poll is "neither".

But Moyes wasn't having relegation seasons for Everton towards the end, was he?

 

Sociedad brought him in to save them from relegation, I think he's doing his job

 

 

He's 6 points above relegation and 18 behind European places. That's not Real Sociedad's place.

 

I'm not judging him yet though, he's in a complete new environment for him in a team that he didn't build.

[Guest waterbottle]

Moyes is merely being "meh" for Real Sociedad, so I think the current answer to the poll is "neither".

But Moyes wasn't having relegation seasons for Everton towards the end, was he?

 

Sociedad brought him in to save them from relegation, I think he's doing his job

 

 

He's 6 points above relegation and 18 behind European places. That's not Real Sociedad's place.

 

I'm not judging him yet though, he's in a complete new environment for him in a team that he didn't build.

 

Obviously, they're a much better team than that, but I believe they didn't buy in the Winter, and Moyes doesn't have who he wants. He's still remarkably improved their defence in a short time

 

Ironically, a Martinez+Moyes combination would probably be perfect....

[joeyt]

Not a huge fan of Martinez, but Everton were good last year, so I think I'll judge him more next season as I presume they won't be in Europe.

 

Someone earlier said that he speaks sense, but didn't Neil say that Martinez said Everton's performance was 'perfect' at SJP earlier this season despite them being absolutely awful

[ilikenewcastle]

He's a nice bloke, but isn't he just a fancy Pardew? A cup final (at least he won it tbf) and a 5th place finish are by far his best achievements. Other than that he had some decent spells in the Football League and some massively overrated spells in the PL with Wigan.

[Ronaldo]

One thing I will say, Martinez never had Wigan looking like a PL side, so he isn't what he's being made out to be.

 

Moyes is easily the more proven manager. In an ideal world you'd want someone more attacking but I'm not convinced Martinez is any sort of Keegan replica as some would have you believe.

 

Fuck, it's tough being so right so much of the time.

[The College Dropout]

Next season will be huge for Martinez.

 

Unless he can get to the EL Final which would be a massive achievement for Everton.

[triggs]

I was never sure if Martinez was a good manager or not, it was hard to know with Wigan and it still is with Everton TBH. But when I hear him talk about football he seems one of the most intelligent and positive managers I've ever heard, so I choose to believe he's got something about him. A bad season doesn't mean he's not a good manager.

 

Martinez needs to bite the bullet and realise that like how Allardyce needs an attacking coach to help him, he needs a defensive one. Moyes had drilled them into one of the best defensive units in the league, but now he's gone, and in their first year, they were still good defensively.

 

Due to this mixture, they were pretty much near the top

 

And now... they aren't

 

Honestly, I rate Koeman much higher than Martinez, and Moyes as well

Christ, do people every learn. This is a message to everybody on this forum. STOP FUCKING JUDGING MANAGERS ON ONE SEASON. I wouldn't be surprised if Koeman had a bad season next season either. It happens every season. Some team has a good season. All of a sudden their manager is a brilliant manager. The next season they struggle and people then think he's a shit manager. I've been consistent in my views on Martinez that I wasn't going to call him a brilliant manager based on last season given his past achievements and I think I've been proven right so far

[Guest waterbottle]

I was never sure if Martinez was a good manager or not, it was hard to know with Wigan and it still is with Everton TBH. But when I hear him talk about football he seems one of the most intelligent and positive managers I've ever heard, so I choose to believe he's got something about him. A bad season doesn't mean he's not a good manager.

 

Martinez needs to bite the bullet and realise that like how Allardyce needs an attacking coach to help him, he needs a defensive one. Moyes had drilled them into one of the best defensive units in the league, but now he's gone, and in their first year, they were still good defensively.

 

Due to this mixture, they were pretty much near the top

 

And now... they aren't

 

Honestly, I rate Koeman much higher than Martinez, and Moyes as well

Christ, do people every learn. This is a message to everybody on this forum. STOP f***ing JUDGING MANAGERS ON ONE SEASON. I wouldn't be surprised if Koeman had a bad season next season either. It happens every season. Some team has a good season. All of a sudden their manager is a brilliant manager. The next season they struggle and people then think he's a s*** manager. I've been consistent in my views on Martinez that I wasn't going to call him a brilliant manager based on last season given his past achievements and I think I've been proven right so far

 

This isn't Koeman's first good season, he was brilliant with Feyenoord too

[Village Idiot]

I was never sure if Martinez was a good manager or not, it was hard to know with Wigan and it still is with Everton TBH. But when I hear him talk about football he seems one of the most intelligent and positive managers I've ever heard, so I choose to believe he's got something about him. A bad season doesn't mean he's not a good manager.

 

Martinez needs to bite the bullet and realise that like how Allardyce needs an attacking coach to help him, he needs a defensive one. Moyes had drilled them into one of the best defensive units in the league, but now he's gone, and in their first year, they were still good defensively.

 

Due to this mixture, they were pretty much near the top

 

And now... they aren't

 

Honestly, I rate Koeman much higher than Martinez, and Moyes as well

Christ, do people every learn. This is a message to everybody on this forum. STOP f***ing JUDGING MANAGERS ON ONE SEASON. I wouldn't be surprised if Koeman had a bad season next season either. It happens every season. Some team has a good season. All of a sudden their manager is a brilliant manager. The next season they struggle and people then think he's a s*** manager. I've been consistent in my views on Martinez that I wasn't going to call him a brilliant manager based on last season given his past achievements and I think I've been proven right so far

 

This isn't Koeman's first good season, he was brilliant with Feyenoord too

 

And has been terrible for a number of teams too. People in Valencia still run for shelter if you shout his name near them.

[Neil]

One thing I will say, Martinez never had Wigan looking like a PL side, so he isn't what he's being made out to be.

 

Moyes is easily the more proven manager. In an ideal world you'd want someone more attacking but I'm not convinced Martinez is any sort of Keegan replica as some would have you believe.

 

Fuck, it's tough being so right so much of the time.

 

 

Moyes is more proven.

 

Martinez is not Keegan.

 

Bold stuff there.

[triggs]

I was never sure if Martinez was a good manager or not, it was hard to know with Wigan and it still is with Everton TBH. But when I hear him talk about football he seems one of the most intelligent and positive managers I've ever heard, so I choose to believe he's got something about him. A bad season doesn't mean he's not a good manager.

 

Martinez needs to bite the bullet and realise that like how Allardyce needs an attacking coach to help him, he needs a defensive one. Moyes had drilled them into one of the best defensive units in the league, but now he's gone, and in their first year, they were still good defensively.

 

Due to this mixture, they were pretty much near the top

 

And now... they aren't

 

Honestly, I rate Koeman much higher than Martinez, and Moyes as well

Christ, do people every learn. This is a message to everybody on this forum. STOP f***ing JUDGING MANAGERS ON ONE SEASON. I wouldn't be surprised if Koeman had a bad season next season either. It happens every season. Some team has a good season. All of a sudden their manager is a brilliant manager. The next season they struggle and people then think he's a s*** manager. I've been consistent in my views on Martinez that I wasn't going to call him a brilliant manager based on last season given his past achievements and I think I've been proven right so far

 

This isn't Koeman's first good season, he was brilliant with Feyenoord too

Didn't watch much of Feyenoord but his managerial record before them is poor and there is nothing to suggest he is better than Moyes

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

This is Wigan not looking like a PL team:

 

24 March 2012 Liverpool 1 - 2 Wigan

31 March 2012 Wigan 2 - 0 Stoke City

7 April 2012 Chelsea 2 - 1 Wigan

11 April 2012 Wigan 1 - 0 Manchester United

16 April 2012 Arsenal 1 - 2 Wigan

21 April 2012 Fulham 2 - 1 Wigan

28 April 2012 Wigan 4 - 0 Newcastle United

7 May 2012 Blackburn 0 - 1 Wigan

13 May 2012 Wigan 3 - 2 Wolves