Jack Flash Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 One thing I will say, Martinez never had Wigan looking like a PL side, so he isn't what he's being made out to be. Moyes is easily the more proven manager. In an ideal world you'd want someone more attacking but I'm not convinced Martinez is any sort of Keegan replica as some would have you believe. Not true IMO, Wigan often looked very good but just ended up losing a lot. This confirms my suspicions that Ian W is indeed Ken M. The username, posting style and intentions are all the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BONTEMPI Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Martinez has the tough 2nd season to come, so at the moment Moyes wins on points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I'd take Martinez based purely on his attacking style and all that - but Moyes here would be ridiculously awesome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Even being as contrary as I am, I'd still pick Martinez without a second thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Mags Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 One thing I will say, Martinez never had Wigan looking like a PL side, so he isn't what he's being made out to be. Moyes is easily the more proven manager. In an ideal world you'd want someone more attacking but I'm not convinced Martinez is any sort of Keegan replica as some would have you believe. Not true IMO, Wigan often looked very good but just ended up losing a lot. The one thing that sticks in my memory is when we played them at SJP (won 2 or 3-0 if I recall) and we had them pinned back pretty tightly, but still they refused to hoof the ball away and clear their lines. They passed and passed in little triangles until they got an out ball and played themselves clear. I remember being impressed by that at the time, they obviously lost too many games but they were at least trying to play the game in the right way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Playing the game the right way is taking risks and scoring goals, not keeping intricate possession. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Playing the game the right way is taking risks and scoring goals, not keeping intricate possession. True. Which is what Martinez has done with us over the course of this season. We looked pretty blunt early on but once he had the time to implement his system, the results have followed and we've scored more goals and have generally looked more and more dangerous as the season has worn on. One thing I will say, Martinez never had Wigan looking like a PL side, so he isn't what he's being made out to be. Apart from when he kept them up on several occasions, making them very good to watch on the ball in the process. The one season he failed to keep them up, he won the FA Cup with them - a staggering achievement for Wigan (let's not forget Martinez's Wigan dismantling Moyes' Everton in the quarters), and proved to be 1 more cup than Moyes managed in many more years with a far better team. Moyes proved himself to be extremely adept at building a team in his image, turning around a sinking ship in 2002 and progressively building up a team which challenged for Europe consistently. He however never proved himself to be a truly winning manager as his mentality in the big games stunk, and that held us back big time. That was asserted several times throughout his reign as well, not just since he left and it's become cool to criticise him. I don't like to see people forgetting what Moyes did for us, because he did a hell of a lot. But what Martinez has highlighted is Moyes' main weakness - his mentality - a facet which is Martinez's strongest because of the positivity he has brought. And that's why I see Martinez as the better manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 One thing I will say, Martinez never had Wigan looking like a PL side, so he isn't what he's being made out to be. Moyes is easily the more proven manager. In an ideal world you'd want someone more attacking but I'm not convinced Martinez is any sort of Keegan replica as some would have you believe. Not true IMO, Wigan often looked very good but just ended up losing a lot. This confirms my suspicions that Ian W is indeed Ken M. The username, posting style and intentions are all the same. I don't know what that means. But I stand by my original point, they played some nice stuff despite losing a lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Mags Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Playing the game the right way is taking risks and scoring goals, not keeping intricate possession. You shouldn't need to take risks of you're controlling the game but that's besides the point. It demonstrated that he had instilled a mentality in them, not to panic when under pressure and to keep the ball and find the spaces with good movement and a bit of cohesion, which personally I admired Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Playing the game the right way is taking risks and scoring goals, not keeping intricate possession. You shouldn't need to take risks of you're controlling the game but that's besides the point. It demonstrated that he had instilled a mentality in them, not to panic when under pressure and to keep the ball and find the spaces with good movement and a bit of cohesion, which personally I admired Also known as slowing down play, allowing your opponent to reset into their defensive formation, losing any advantage you might have had by hitting them during their transition phase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Mags Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 They weren't slowing anything down, they just refused to hoof the ball clear and lose possession (like we've done for years now under Pardew) thus inviting more pressure. It's only a small point, granted, but I thought it was noteworthy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Playing the game the right way is taking risks and scoring goals, not keeping intricate possession. You shouldn't need to take risks of you're controlling the game but that's besides the point. It demonstrated that he had instilled a mentality in them, not to panic when under pressure and to keep the ball and find the spaces with good movement and a bit of cohesion, which personally I admired Also known as slowing down play, allowing your opponent to reset into their defensive formation, losing any advantage you might have had by hitting them during their transition phase. Aye, fucking idiots, they should have just booted it up to Shola. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 It's only a pipe dream but if moyes did come here at least he could bring his own players in cos half of ours are leaving anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Playing the game the right way is taking risks and scoring goals, not keeping intricate possession. You shouldn't need to take risks of you're controlling the game but that's besides the point. It demonstrated that he had instilled a mentality in them, not to panic when under pressure and to keep the ball and find the spaces with good movement and a bit of cohesion, which personally I admired Also known as slowing down play, allowing your opponent to reset into their defensive formation, losing any advantage you might have had by hitting them during their transition phase. Aye, fucking idiots, they should have just booted it up to Shola. Keegan didn't boot it up to Shola, nor was he remotely concerned with 'controlling' the midfield. Scare the shit out of the opposition, score goals and you'll control the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Next we'll have.......... Hughton or Rodgers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DebuchyAndTheBeast Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Actually I think his overambitious approach may have cost Wigan. In Everton he may have found the team to implement his philosophy but the way Wigan were playing was suicidal, moving defenders out of position and shipping goals in the process. I'm not saying Moyes is the better manager but he is the proven one at least at League level. Let's not forget that many weaker teams do get to finals. If Hull win the FA Cup in a couple of weeks while staying up, will that make Bruce better than Moyes and Martinez? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubblyDubblyDubbly Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Playing the game the right way is taking risks and scoring goals, not keeping intricate possession. Not according to Bayern/Barca..... I think they should register it as a cure for insomnia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Ronaldo you're being very harsh on Martinez. His team has never been about possession the same way Barcelona or even Swansea played couple years back. He has his team attacking, playing from the ground, but his Wigan side usually tried to attack all the times. I like him and said w should've replaced him with Pardew. Was very impressed by his Wigan side no matter if they lost or won, then again I'm not ALL about results at times like these so anything pleasing to the eye is enough for me. I'd have Moyes here no doubt, but then again I'd have Ali Baba and The Forthy Thieves here if it meants Pardew gone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I never said Martinez wasn't attacking, I just think his Wigan side were a pile of shite who consistently failed to show any class throughout each season and survived by the skin of their bollocks by beating lowly teams already on the beach come April/May. The fact they passed it in nice triangles doesn't make their football correct, for me, anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I never said Martinez wasn't attacking, I just think his Wigan side were a pile of s**** who consistently failed to show any class throughout each season and survived by the skin of their bollocks by beating lowly teams already on the beach come April/May. The fact they passed it in nice triangles doesn't make their football correct, for me, anyway. Fair enough, my only ciritcism has only been that he was never able to get the right players in to form a team. I still put it a bit down that he had to pay more to attract other players as they would never get the players for right prices as other clubs would be in there. His way of football is for me the right way of football. Not saying he's god, but I've always said I want ball on the floor and passing to create chances. I'm also glad that Rodgers, Pellegrini and Martinez are joining Wenger in showing that an attacking football is the way to go. Anyways, anything to sack this piece of shit we have no wil do it for me. Except Bruce, I don't want Steve Bruce. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collage Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I'd take Martinez based purely on his attacking style and all that - but Moyes here would be ridiculously awesome. This. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I'd take Martinez based purely on his attacking style and all that - but Moyes here would be ridiculously awesome. This. Yeah in short that's it. Anyone saying no to Moyes because of his Man U stint is so short-sighted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crumpy Gunt Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Wasn't that long ago folk wouldn't touch Martinez on the back of Wigans annual fight against relegation. Til they finally went... Moyes would have pissed this two years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtained Wasp Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Either would be a monumental upgrade, neither will happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Actually I think his overambitious approach may have cost Wigan. In Everton he may have found the team to implement his philosophy but the way Wigan were playing was suicidal, moving defenders out of position and shipping goals in the process. I'm not saying Moyes is the better manager but he is the proven one at least at League level. Let's not forget that many weaker teams do get to finals. If Hull win the FA Cup in a couple of weeks while staying up, will that make Bruce better than Moyes and Martinez? Probably something in this, perhaps stuck to his principals too much at Wigan when being more pragmatic at times was required. The impressive thing with him is how he's stepped up a level so confidently so soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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